Top 25 means we need Top 25

#26
#26
bleedingTNorange said:
Not sure if you're using Martin as an example or just speaking in general.

The reason I ask is because if you ask some people it was obvious Martin wasn't a top 25 coach after his first year. However you can't fire a coach after one year, that's just not the way to do things and bring a program back IMO.
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You can't fire him after year one. Fans who say they "knew" that are mistaken. I'm just saying that if you want to be a real basketball program you don't sit on your hands if you know the current coach is a buster. Now, I think you and I both think Martin is getting year 4 based largely on circumstance rather than production. Martin's only credit thus far is that he has shown he is at least somewhat capable and not a complete disaster like Buzz Peterson.

I think a program like UT (under normal circumstances) would evaluate CCM this spring and decide to either pop him or extend him. Sadly, I think Martin will be on the bubble and our AD will decide to do nothing. Martin will not be extended or fired.
 
#27
#27
BigZiti09 said:
You can't fire him after year one. Fans who say they "knew" that are mistaken. I'm just saying that if you want to be a real basketball program you don't sit on your hands if you know the current coach is a buster. Now, I think you and I both think Martin is getting year 4 based largely on circumstance rather than production. Martin's only credit thus far is that he has shown he is at least somewhat capable and not a complete disaster like Buzz Peterson.

I think a program like UT (under normal circumstances) would evaluate CCM this spring and decide to either pop him or extend him. Sadly, I think Martin will be on the bubble and our AD will decide to do nothing. Martin will not be extended or fired.
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After this year will be interesting, I think we may find out just how serious Hart is about basketball.

If Martin makes the dance barely, what will he do? If you don't give him an extension your basically killing his chances to recruit, you may as well fire him. However, can you really fire a coach that just made the dance, when you've kind made it known that's the goal?

I'm really not sure what Hart will do, I fear Martin will get a 4th year regardless, and as you've said if we want to be a top 25 program that's not the way to do things. If he can't make noise this year, I see no way he's ever going to on a consistent basis, and that's what the goal should be IMO.

IMO if Martin misses the dance this year Hart should make a move, he should hire a known name, and spend the money that's necessary.

Jmo
 
#28
#28
BigZiti09 said:
There's no reason not to be.

Fan support (top 5-10 in attendance)
Regional talent base to recruit (midstate, atlanta)
Money
Great facilities (TBA, Pratt Pavilion)
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Let's look at fan support on a % of arena filled basis and see how we rank. I've always thought that stat was over hyped because of how big TBA is. Of course, I have no stats to back myself up. It's just something I've thought about.
 
#29
#29
CAVol said:
Let's look at fan support on a % of arena filled basis and see how we rank. I've always thought that stat was over hyped because of how big TBA is. Of course, I have no stats to back myself up. It's just something I've thought about.
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That's not fair to UT. If we had an arena that held 15k, we'd be at 90%.
 
#30
#30
bleedingTNorange said:
After this year will be interesting, I think we may find out just how serious Hart is about basketball.

If Martin makes the dance barely, what will he do? If you don't give him an extension your basically killing his chances to recruit, you may as well fire him. However, can you really fire a coach that just made the dance, when you've kind made it known that's the goal?

I'm really not sure what Hart will do, I fear Martin will get a 4th year regardless, and as you've said if we want to be a top 25 program that's not the way to do things. If he can't make noise this year, I see no way he's ever going to on a consistent basis, and that's what the goal should be IMO.

IMO if Martin misses the dance this year Hart should make a move, he should hire a known name, and spend the money that's necessary.

Jmo
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They'll keep him if he makes the dance.

You don't have to have a name coach. Not many universities have the prestige to go hire a proven winner that's established. I know you'll say SC but if believe frank Martin was butting heads with the powers at ks. Besides, that's the exception, not the norm.

If UT fires CCM this spring, my hope is that they come up with a nice pool of candidates, identify who they want and go get him. Understanding that it may take a little more than they want to spend.
 
#31
#31
k-town_king said:
You do realize Martin finished above expectations his first two years right? Even though Pearl left six scholly players and sanctions hanging over our head. Last year no Maymon. Sounds like a real coach to me.

I think people overestimate the talent Pearl left. He only won 19 and went 8-8 in the SEC his last year and finished unranked after starting top 25 and reaching top ten. We lost by 30 in the first game and scored 45 points. We had way more talent then and won 19. We lose all our talent overachieve with less talent and win 19 the next year 10-6 SEC and 20 the year after and he can't coach at all. That is funny.
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Finished above who's expectations?
 
#32
#32
k-town_king said:
So Martin get a pass the first year? He still had the specter of sanctions hanging over him. Not to mention Bruce left 6 players. Most who had never contributed. So if Bruce gets a last year pass Martin should get a first. Then last year no Maymon and finished higher than projected and won 20 games.

Pearl recruited better for sure. But people acting like he was some coaching genius and Martin isn't fit to coach HS are crazy. Give Pearl a last year pass but bash Martin for doing better than he should have while dealing with Pearl's mess he left over.

Bruce had a couple more seasons he squeaked in with way more talent than we have now. He had Chism, Hopson , and T Smith and only won 21 games. Squeaked in as a 8 seed and lost first round. He lost in the first or second round 3 times. One of the times he was a 2 seed and won the game against the 15 seed by two on a last second shot then lost the next game to a 7 seed. He had some good years but let's not act like he won 30 games a year and Martin is below .500.
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Squeaked in? Say what?
 
#33
#33
BigZiti09 said:
They'll keep him if he makes the dance.

You don't have to have a name coach. Not many universities have the prestige to go hire a proven winner that's established. I know you'll say SC but if believe frank Martin was butting heads with the powers at ks. Besides, that's the exception, not the norm.

If UT fires CCM this spring, my hope is that they come up with a nice pool of candidates, identify who they want and go get him. Understanding that it may take a little more than they want to spend.
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You'll never convince me that if money wasn't a factor we couldn't go out and hire a "name coach". There's no longer NCAA violations hanging over our head, the job is surrounded by top 20 assets, no reason you attract a big name coach.

I'm not saying coach K or Williams, but I think if you throw down enough money you could hire Frank, Howland or Dixon off the top of my head.
 
#34
#34
bleedingTNorange said:
You'll never convince me that if money wasn't a factor we couldn't go out and hire a "name coach". There's no longer NCAA violations hanging over our head, the job is surrounded by top 20 assets, no reason you attract a big name coach.

I'm not saying coach K or Williams, but I think if you throw down enough money you could hire Frank, Howland or Dixon off the top of my head.
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Lawrence Frank is a myth and he's never leaving the nba IMO.

The other two I could see us landing. But I don't think hiring a proven guy should be a requirement for fans expectations if that makes sense. There's lots of good hoops coaches. Lots.
 
#35
#35
Dixon was my first choice after we fired Pearl. I don't have a link, but I feel like I remember us pursuing him to no avail. Not sure if it would be any different if we canned Martin, but maybe.
 
#36
#36
BigZiti09 said:
Lawrence Frank is a myth and he's never leaving the nba IMO.

The other two I could see us landing. But I don't think hiring a proven guy should be a requirement for fans expectations if that makes sense. There's lots of good hoops coaches. Lots.
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No doubt, there's a lot of lesser known guys who could work. The risk in that IMO is that if Martin were to miss the dance, fan interest is gonna be way down. You've got to hire someone who is gonna excite the fanbase IMO.
 
#38
#38
bleedingTNorange said:
No doubt, there's a lot of lesser known guys who could work. The risk in that IMO is that if Martin were to miss the dance, fan interest is gonna be way down. You've got to hire someone who is gonna excite the fanbase IMO.
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Yeah. My point was just that fans have this perception you can just walk out there with a dump truck full of cash and hire whoever you want.

If that's so, why is Charlie strong at Texas instead of urban meyer or nick Saban. They are supposed to be the best job in football and they hire Strong. Where's Pete Carroll? Where's Gus malzauhn?

All it takes is to find the right guy, help him be successful and then keep him happy. Look at Billy Donovan at Florida. They struck gold and have kept him there even though their fanbase doesn't support hoops.
 
#43
#43
BigZiti09 said:
And you think Pitt wouldn't offer $3 mill to keep him
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It's why I said $3+. There's been some negative responses to Dixon getting that raise and making that amount, I'm not sure how high they'd be willing to go.

Again my point being, be willing to spend and we could hire a coach that's a known name and would excite the fan base. I'm not talking Calipari, but there's plenty of guys who like money out there.
 
#44
#44
bleedingTNorange said:
It's why I said $3+. There's been some negative responses to Dixon getting that raise and making that amount, I'm not sure how high they'd be willing to go.

Again my point being, be willing to spend and we could hire a coach that's a known name and would excite the fan base. I'm not talking Calipari, but there's plenty of guys who like money out there.
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I guess. I'd rather go find me a better coach who'd love to coach at UT. Just because we've made bad hires in the past doesn't mean we always will. You just have to get it right once and you are set for 15 years.
 
#45
#45
BigZiti09 said:
I guess. I'd rather go find me a better coach who'd love to coach at UT. Just because we've made bad hires in the past doesn't mean we always will. You just have to get it right once and you are set for 15 years.
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If it was so easy to get it right every school would and you wouldn't see so many coaches being canned every year.
 
#46
#46
bleedingTNorange said:
If it was so easy to get it right every school would and you wouldn't see so many coaches being canned every year.
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Well not everybody is fishing in the same candidate pool. Last time we hired, we were not very attractive to candidates. The next time, we will be.
 
#47
#47
BigZiti09 said:
Well not everybody is fishing in the same candidate pool. Last time we hired, we were not very attractive to candidates. The next time, we will be.
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That's what I'm saying. We will be more attractive, and can hire a much better candidate than Martin. There's no great coach begging to come to Tennessee that I'm aware of, do you know of any? This isn't like the football program that it's widely regarded as one of the best jobs in the country.

In order for us to get a candidate who is widely considered as a promising coach we would have to pay good money. We aren't gonna be the front runners for a candidate, or get some discount because we are some attractive option if that makes sense.
 
#48
#48
bleedingTNorange said:
That's what I'm saying. We will be more attractive, and can hire a much better candidate than Martin. There's no great coach begging to come to Tennessee that I'm aware of, do you know of any? This isn't like the football program that it's widely regarded as one of the best jobs in the country.

In order for us to get a candidate who is widely considered as a promising coach we would have to pay good money. We aren't gonna be the front runners for a candidate, or get some discount because we are some attractive option if that makes sense.
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I'm saying that UT is an attractive job especially when the NCAA isn't overhanging.

UT can make a good hire the next go round. We got CCM because of our situation, not because of our unwillingness to pay.
 
#49
#49
BigZiti09 said:
I'm saying that UT is an attractive job especially when the NCAA isn't overhanging.

UT can make a good hire the next go round. We got CCM because of our situation, not because of our unwillingness to pay.
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I think we're saying the same thing.

Next coaching search we can hire a very good candidate, we may have to pay, but there should be no excuse to have to settle on an unknown coach.
 
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