Torture

Stance on the use of torture methods against suspected terrorists?

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#1
NewToVolCountry

NewToVolCountry

Bring Back Lane
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#1
I want to keep this thread very simple and clutter free. Opinions are fine, but this is more for data collection. Please don't initiate or participate in any arguments in this thread.

I have four simple questions. One can be answered in the poll. However, if you feel comfortable answering the other three, please include your answer in a post as well.

Question 1- Are you for or against our govt using methods of torture against suspected terrorists?

Question 2- Regardless of your previous answer, do you think torture is effective?

Question 3- To which party do you normally align yourself?

Question 4- In the last presidential election which candidate did you back?

Thank you very much for your answers. I just got curious while reading a book and thought I would poll the people of VN. Please keep your posts limited to just answering the questions above.
 
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#4
#4
1) against
2) no, people will tell you whatever you want to hear to make it stop
3) none, not a sheep... prob closest to libertarian
4) Bob Barr is who I voted for, but he sucked. He was just way better than the choice between the democan and the republicrat.
 
#6
#6
I heard the best answer regarding "torture" a couple of months ago dealing with the effectiveness of waterboarding and the answers obtained while waterboarding.

1. Waterboarding isn't torture.
2. When questioning someone while they're being WB'd, you ask questions whose answers you already know, you continue until the prisoner begins answering those questions correctly. This process may take a while, but unlike other forms of torture, the prisoner isn't permanently damaged in any way.
3. Once you have broken a prisoner, WB ceases and interrogations become matter-of-fact affairs. Just look at how cooperative KSM became after he was broken.

With that said, to the OP:

1. See my #1 above.
2. Torture isn't effective in getting the information you want, it's effective in breaking a prisoner, then you get the information you want.
3. Ever since I regrettably voted for Clinton in 1992, I have loosely allied myself with the GOP although I consider myself a libertarian in the model of Neal Boortz.
4. I voted for John McCain despite the fact that I disagreed with him regarding waterboarding. He is permanently, physically damaged as a result of the actual torture he endured at the hands of the NVA.
 
#7
#7
Question 1- Are you for or against our govt using methods of torture against suspected terrorists? -- No.

Question 2- Regardless of your previous answer, do you think torture is effective? -- No.

Question 3- To which party do you normally align yourself? -- None.

Question 4- In the last presidential election which candidate did you back? -- Hillary Clinton or John Edwards. When it came down to Obama or McCain, I wanted McCain.
 
#8
#8
Those of you that think torture isn't an effective way to get information. I wonder where your pain limit is at, and the info you'll give up to make the pain stop.
 
#12
#12
7thgroupvolfan said:
Those of you that think torture isn't an effective way to get information. I wonder where your pain limit is at, and the info you'll give up to make the pain stop.
Click to expand...

In WWII torture was used extensively by the Nazi's (and everyone else actually, but that is another story). Nazi records obtained after the war show that the vast majority of information obtained by torture was either incomplete or incorrect. That isn't my opinion. That isn't ideology. That is a testable, and provable, hypothesis.
 
#13
#13
RespectTradition said:
In WWII torture was used extensively by the Nazi's (and everyone else actually, but that is another story). Nazi records obtained after the war show that the vast majority of information obtained by torture was either incomplete or incorrect. That isn't my opinion. That isn't ideology. That is a testable, and provable, hypothesis.[/QUOTE

WWII really? That's your arguement?
Click to expand...
 
#14
#14
7thgroupvolfan said:
RespectTradition said:
In WWII torture was used extensively by the Nazi's (and everyone else actually, but that is another story). Nazi records obtained after the war show that the vast majority of information obtained by torture was either incomplete or incorrect. That isn't my opinion. That isn't ideology. That is a testable, and provable, hypothesis.
Click to expand...

WWII really? That's your arguement?
Click to expand...

Experience is the best teacher.
 
#16
#16
RespectTradition said:
In WWII torture was used extensively by the Nazi's (and everyone else actually, but that is another story). Nazi records obtained after the war show that the vast majority of information obtained by torture was either incomplete or incorrect. That isn't my opinion. That isn't ideology. That is a testable, and provable, hypothesis.
Click to expand...
Obviously they were doing it wrong
 
#17
#17
7thgroupvolfan said:
Those of you that think torture isn't an effective way to get information. I wonder where your pain limit is at, and the info you'll give up to make the pain stop.
Click to expand...


What if you have no information? What if you're not even a terrorist? It did say "suspected terrorists". And just because you're a terrorist, doesn't mean you have answers to the questions being asked. If you're at the bottom of the totem pole, there is a good chance you have no idea how operations are run. Not to mention, probably too stupid to understand it even if you knew.

I know terrorism is different but what if we just tortured every suspected murderer or rapist for info? I'd hate to find out how many of them are innocent after the fact. You're now responsible for torturing innocent people because they were suspects. Does potentially being innocent not matter because they are foreigners?

Torturing people in general is f'ed up. Hopefully those condoning it don't believe in God. Defending the country is one thing but torturing people is disturbing. I don't care who it is... and in this case, they're potentially innocent or have no knowledge even if they're guilty of being a terrorist.

How would torturing innocent people or unarmed "terrorists"(with no knowledge) make the people torturing them or the people condoning it any better than terrorists? That sounds like another form of terrorism to me.
 
#19
#19
In other words, innocent people are going to end up being tortured at some point. And they're just going to make up lies(making them look guilty) so it stops.
 
#24
#24
I guess im missing the whole verification of the information obtained.....
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