Tough loss at Maples!

[Lucy]

Hi Lady Vol fans, I'm a Stanford WBB fan who comes in peace. I wanted to complement your team on an outstanding game on Sunday, playing with heart and poise and giving us all we could handle through three quarters. After the game Tara stayed to talk to our core fans, and she was highly complementary of Tennessee, and reminded us that we have a very long way to go before we can hope to even up the series. Tara called our series one of the best rivalries in WBB, after more than three decades, and we certainly would like to see it continue. Pretty sure you will get us at your place next year,

As Tara put it, you have two WNBA players on your team surrounded by some excellent shooters, and your record does not begin to reflect your level of talent. She also said that she will be rooting for you to win every other game you play--unless we should meet again in the tournament, of course!

I thought I would comment on a couple of things that your team did well. I've noticed that several of you wondered why Jump was not defended better. In fact you forced Jump outside her normal comfort zone. Much of her scoring was on back door cuts and floaters in the lane. This is very rare for her--there are games where every shot she takes is beyond the arc--so your defense played her close enough to force her off the three point line. I think your scout on her was probably well executed, except she surprised all of us with a versatility we have not seen very much before.

Before the game one of our assistant coaches met with core fans for a "chalk talk" and discussed the strategy. One of our keys to success was to try to get scoring in transition, since the coaches knew that your defense in the half court would create problems for us. As it turns out, your coaching staff knew the same thing, and your defense did an excellent job of limiting our transition points. Somewhere I heard or read that it was a major point of emphasis in practice by Tennessee to stop our transition points and make us struggle in the half court with your close defense. As a result, we had only 8 fast break points compared with 18 for you. Furthermore, in those minutes when Brink was out, we really did struggle in the half court. Your plan mostly worked.

It was obvious to most of us at Maples that your team has elite talent and that you will have a successful season. For the first 3 quarters of the game you played us better than South Carolina did. I know I would not like Stanford to have to face you in the NCAAs again this year. I would not be surprised at all if your team went on some winning streaks this year and worked itself back into contention.

Thanks for swinging by. Stanford WBB is always a class program and my #2 team. Hope we get another shot at The Cardinal in the final four!

 

[Rooster1]

That was a well thought out and respectful post from the Stanford Alum. It is of course easier to be polite and complimentary after your teams wins, but I think he/she was also correct in most of that analysis of the game.

UT did have a 5 point lead after 3, so the issue was obviously the 4th quarter when Brink was able to play extended minutes. Without Key down low on defense she was able to do much damage. That impacted everything else on both sides in the 4th, offensively and defensively. Brink is a unique big, she fouls foolishly too often early in games, but when she can play for any extended period she becomes their focal point on offense and she rebounds so well. She was fresh legs in the 4th after sitting so much of the first half due to foul trouble.

Storm, as that poster mentioned, was able to adjust to the defense UT played on her, taking away her fav shot from 3, and she found a way to still get her points. Stanford needed that from her to win that game and somehow she did it. UT did a great job on Haley.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Thanks Coach Jumper

At 6:34 it was 60-62,,,down 2
At 3:56 it was 61-70

During that span we missed three 3's, three midrange twos, one drive and 1-2 foul shots
the 8-1 run was actually a 4-0 run and a 3-0 run interrupted by a made FT
There was no blinding light to call a timeout like there usually is
we just hit a wall deep, mid, short,,,wall!

By then the damage was done
We played them toe to toe after that span

They're #2 for a reason @Nute Gunray
and to get back to that status we have to closeout games like they did
And we're getting there Nute
I can see it

 

[Rooster1]

At 6:34 it was 60-62,,,down 2
At 3:56 it was 61-70

During that span we missed three 3's, three midrange twos, one drive and 1-2 foul shots
the 8-1 run was actually a 4-0 run and a 3-0 run interrupted by a made FT
There was no blinding light to call a timeout like there usually is
we just hit a wall deep, mid, short,,,wall!

By then the damage was done
We played them toe to toe after that span

They're #2 for a reason @Nute Gunray
and to get back to that status we have to closeout games like they did
And we're getting there Nute
I can see it

CJ,
I don’t know how UT neutralizes a fresh Brink in the 4th, but she was the difference. There isn’t that type or quality big now on the UT roster. Brink sat almost all of the first half with fouls. The problem is you cannot pack the paint on them to stop Brink when she is in the game because they have so many outside shooters. It was decided in the 4th by quality depth and fresher legs. And yeah, Brink can move out of the post and hit threes as well. A hard hard thing to game around because she is so good at the rim and even outside.

Usually outstanding talent will eventually surface in a game, and Stanford held Brink back until the 4th to ensure she could put her skills on display when it mattered. Can’t coach around that.

SC could not contain her either even with Boston and Cardoso, she has elite skills around the hoop. SC was not able to pack the paint on Stanford, as Stanford did against SC, because Stanford has quality shooters, which SC lacks. It’s why they double and triple teamed Boston all night with success but SC could not do the same against Brink due to their shooters. Maybe next time SC faces them Kitts will be the shooter to loosen up the paint a bit for Boston, but SC escaped Maples with an improbable 10 point comeback in the fourth to get OT. Not an ideal matchup for the no.1 team either.

 

[creekdipper]

Just think, we outscored Stanford by five points in the first 3 quarters.

Technically, by seven (on the court).

 

[Lucy]

CJ,
I don’t know how UT neutralizes a fresh Brink in the 4th, but she was the difference. There isn’t that type or quality big now on the UT roster. Brink sat almost all of the first half with fouls. The problem is you cannot pack the paint on them to stop Brink when she is in the game because they have so many outside shooters. It was decided in the 4th by quality depth and fresher legs. And yeah, Brink can move out of the post and hit threes as well. A hard hard thing to game around because she is so good at the rim and even outside.

Usually outstanding talent will eventually surface in a game, and Stanford held Brink back until the 4th to ensure she could put her skills on display when it mattered. Can’t coach around that.

SC could not contain her either even with Boston and Cardoso, she has elite skills around the hoop. SC was not able to pack the paint on Stanford, as Stanford did against SC, because Stanford has quality shooters, which SC lacks. It’s why they double and triple teamed Boston all night with success but SC could not do the same against Brink due to their shooters. Maybe next time SC faces them Kitts will be the shooter to loosen up the paint a bit for Boston, but SC escaped Maples with an improbable 10 point comeback in the fourth to get OT. Not an ideal matchup for the no.1 team either.

So what is the general opinion is Brink or Boston better?
Maybe should move to Non LV thread?

 

[Rooster1]

So what is the general opinion is Brink or Boston better?
Maybe should move to Non LV thread?

Lucy,

Boston is of course the better player. But because SC lacks quality outside shooters teams now double and triple team Boston. If Brink were given the same treatment she would not fare as well as Boston. SC needs to fix it‘s perimeter shooting, Stanford does not. Boston is the #1 draft pick coming up, without question.

This was an extension of the UT versus Stanford game thoughts, that is all. I felt it had a place in this discussion since both of our teams have faced Stanford at Maples now. Happy Holidays Lucy and Peace. Did not mean to intrude, just wanted to add some perspective.

 

[Lucy]

Lucy,

Boston is of course the better player. But because SC lacks quality outside shooters teams now double and triple team Boston. If Brink were given the same treatment she would not fare as well as Boston. SC needs to fix it‘s perimeter shooting, Stanford does not. Boston is the #1 draft pick coming up, without question.

This was an extension of the UT versus Stanford game thoughts, that is all. I felt it had a place in this discussion since both of our teams have faced Stanford at Maples now. Happy Holidays Lucy and Peace. Did not mean to intrude, just wanted to add some perspective.

Oh for sure no worries! I was the one who brought up the direct comparison of the two and then realized what thread it was. I agree with you re: Boston. Just a lot of folks were talking up Brink. I really wish TK had been able to go. I think the outcome might have been different.
I do like Boston, she seems like a nice young lady.
Happy holidays to you too. I’ve got to quite messing around here and get my wrapping done!

 

[Advol]

This is not necessarily a defense of the coaching staff but many times it is difficult to bring in new players, especially from a new system, and to obtain immediate success. Louisville is have a few adjustment issues with new players. The Lady Vols played well against Stanford with a few exceptions. They are showing positive progress. I believe we need to see more their play in the SEC to see if they have figured out how to play well as a group. We have to find a way to work Horston, Puckett and Jackson into the starting lineup for scoring power.

Bla Bla Bla..........................All HAS been said. It IS time for a Coaching Change.

 

[Advol]

Close, competitive, improving have always been positive remarks for Lady Vols team for as long as I can recall (and I am old). Particular when playing the No. 2 ranked team in the country, on the road, on the west coast. It's the kind of team we want. Quit trying to turn everything into a negative.

Take your LightBlue and Orange Glasses off! This team is not in the top of the SEC let alone the country. HOW LONG do you let it continue? Why can I NOT be a Lady Vol Fan and not accept what is being done to the program.

 

[KTrain]

So what is the general opinion is Brink or Boston better?
Maybe should move to Non LV thread?

I did notice Brink when she gets the ball on the key and starts to make a quick move dribble, twice it looked like she walked. I'm not sure if its consistent across the board on calling in NCAAW game but certain refs may call that and hurt Standford in a tight game. Brink is the heartbeat of that team she is really great player; they were a different team when she sat. I think Boston is all around better player and USCe seems to get a favorable call so that helps.

 

[37620VOL]

She can't even remember the number of timeouts she has, how can she be expected to remember jersey numbers?

Amateur hour...

When did she forget about # of timeouts?

 

[glv98]

I did notice Brink when she gets the ball on the key and starts to make a quick move dribble, twice it looked like she walked. I'm not sure if its consistent across the board on calling in NCAAW game but certain refs may call that and hurt Standford in a tight game.

Speaking of, I've noticed Jordan H occassionally still does that little hippity hop step that cost us in one of the early losses which have all congealed together in my brain. She does it when she receives a pass, especially in backcourt, as she catches the pass and looks up to assess the floor at the same time. Does a little bunny hop before starting her dribble kind of habitually. Already hurt us.

 

[glv98]

When did she forget about # of timeouts?

Back in the olden days, in those loses congealed in my head. There was a failure to call t.o. to advance the ball late in close game. Turned out would not have been able to do so anyway due to some dumb rule so KJH was right. But that usually doesn't matter much once the myth takes hold.

Now that she's actually calling t.o.s (Rick still isn't), we're on to she shoulda got a technical.

 

[Volinnooga]

Take your LightBlue and Orange Glasses off! This team is not in the top of the SEC let alone the country. HOW LONG do you let it continue? Why can I NOT be a Lady Vol Fan and not accept what is being done to the program.

It's a message board. You may do whatever you wish.

 

[37620VOL]

The 24-12 fourth quarter was why we lost to Stanford. I hope Coach Kellie and her staff can analyze that quarter and make the necessary adjustments. Just think, we outscored Stanford by five points in the first 3 quarters.
I wish someone on this board can explain what happened in the fourth quarter.

My take on the 4th quarter is that I did not see the same ball movement that I did in the first three quarters. Our shots inside the arc were lower quality shots. I think we were too conscious in our effort to go at Brink in the 4th to keep her in foul trouble. This completely backfired. She affected all of our shots in the paint, we drew 0 fouls on her and we went ice-cold behind the arc. Here is the horrific truth:


On defense we had executed nicely by sagging off of Jones, daring her to shoot 3s and helping deny the ball inside. In the fourth we seemed to get away from this. We guarded Jones out the the 3 point line and she drove around us and through us. We didn't deny the post entry as well as we had all game long and they got some easy buckets.

One final note, Walker killed us all game long. Why oh why is she the favored PG? In her 24 minutes her plus/minus was -18 which means we won by 11 when she was on the bench. Well, what was Powell's plus/minus you might ask? It was plus 11 in 16 minutes played.

 

[37620VOL]

Back in the olden days, in those loses congealed in my head. There was a failure to call t.o. to advance the ball late in close game. Turned out would not have been able to do so anyway due to some dumb rule so KJH was right. But that usually doesn't happen.

Now that she's actually calling t.o.s (Rick still isn't), we're on to she shoulda got a technical.

I figured that was what Darth was referring to. I wonder if Darth will admit the error?

 

[Coach Jumper]

CJ, I don’t know how UT neutralizes a fresh Brink in the 4th, but she was the difference. There isn’t that type or quality big now on the UT roster. Brink sat almost all of the first half with fouls. The problem is you cannot pack the paint on them to stop Brink when she is in the game because they have so many outside shooters. It was decided in the 4th by quality depth and fresher legs. And yeah, Brink can move out of the post and hit threes as well. A hard hard thing to game around because she is so good at the rim and even outside...

So what is the general opinion is Brink or Boston better?
Maybe should move to Non LV thread?

No, having a thread dedicated to two of our foes,,,no
one segment is enough

give me Brink over Boston every time
We can fend against a PF like Boston with Jasmine/Puckett/Striplin all 3 of which can play the power game. But Brink, a 6'6' stretch forward who runs like a 5'10 guard,,,we have only one defender who can run with her but is not skilled enough (yet) in Hollingshead.

When I have players who are athletic, tall and lacking on defense,,,I take my male players and run one-on-ones at her in a line. . . setting the player (Jillian) at the top of the key with a line of male players at the arc with a ball and make her/my player play one on one defense against them on at a time....No breaks. She plays one on one defense against the first one, then goes to the top of the key and faces the next one. then the next one,,,ad nauseam....And I do this in each practice, instructing her techniques and flaws (in her ear privately) until she can defend every one of her attackers. I call it the "gauntlet"

It is a force-feeding way of teaching defense to an individual player. I wouldn't do this in practice. I would set this up to be done on her own time with the male players.

This would teach Jillian one on one defense quicker than any drill.

Brink is unique. A female that tall who can run and play like a guard has to be dealt with with the same type of player.

 

[Nute Gunray]

At 6:34 it was 60-62,,,down 2
At 3:56 it was 61-70

During that span we missed three 3's, three midrange twos, one drive and 1-2 foul shots
the 8-1 run was actually a 4-0 run and a 3-0 run interrupted by a made FT
There was no blinding light to call a timeout like there usually is
we just hit a wall deep, mid, short,,,wall!

By then the damage was done
We played them toe to toe after that span

They're #2 for a reason @Nute Gunray
and to get back to that status we have to closeout games like they did
And we're getting there Nute
I can see it

Thanks for your analysis, Coach Jumper.

 

[Nute Gunray]

My take on the 4th quarter is that I did not see the same ball movement that I did in the first three quarters. Our shots inside the arc were lower quality shots. I think we were too conscious in our effort to go at Brink in the 4th to keep her in foul trouble. This completely backfired. She affected all of our shots in the paint, we drew 0 fouls on her and we went ice-cold behind the arc. Here is the horrific truth:
View attachment 525604

On defense we had executed nicely by sagging off of Jones, daring her to shoot 3s and helping deny the ball inside. In the fourth we seemed to get away from this. We guarded Jones out the the 3 point line and she drove around us and through us. We didn't deny the post entry as well as we had all game long and they got some easy buckets.

One final note, Walker killed us all game long. Why oh why is she the favored PG? In her 24 minutes her plus/minus was -18 which means we won by 11 when she was on the bench. Well, what was Powell's plus/minus you might ask? It was plus 11 in 16 minutes played.

Thanks 37620VOL, for your analysis

 

[Nute Gunray]

I really thank the ones who answered my question about the 4th quarter and I thank the other posts also. I hope Coach Kellie can identify and solve the problems displayed in the 4th quarter. If she can do this, I predict that the LVs can go 15-3 in the remaining 18 games.

 

[teacherdean]

Bla Bla Bla..........................All HAS been said. It IS time for a Coaching Change.

In the end you might be proven right but I believe we need to wait and see what happens in the SEC. I believe that will be the tell of the tape. Until then support the ladies and hope for the best.

 

[Volfan2012]

My take on the 4th quarter is that I did not see the same ball movement that I did in the first three quarters. Our shots inside the arc were lower quality shots. I think we were too conscious in our effort to go at Brink in the 4th to keep her in foul trouble. This completely backfired. She affected all of our shots in the paint, we drew 0 fouls on her and we went ice-cold behind the arc. Here is the horrific truth:
View attachment 525604

On defense we had executed nicely by sagging off of Jones, daring her to shoot 3s and helping deny the ball inside. In the fourth we seemed to get away from this. We guarded Jones out the the 3 point line and she drove around us and through us. We didn't deny the post entry as well as we had all game long and they got some easy buckets.

One final note, Walker killed us all game long. Why oh why is she the favored PG? In her 24 minutes her plus/minus was -18 which means we won by 11 when she was on the bench. Well, what was Powell's plus/minus you might ask? It was plus 11 in 16 minutes played.

We've wondered all season why Walker gets so much play. Evidently she practices very well does not carry it over to games.

 

[Majors]

We've wondered all season why Walker gets so much play. Evidently she practices very well does not carry it over to games.

Which is concerning for Justine headed into game 14. What is she doing wrong to not see the court in games more? Or is the “practice” talk just that in regards to sitting RJ?

 

[teacherdean]

We've wondered all season why Walker gets so much play. Evidently she practices very well does not carry it over to games.

What you speak of is the determination of the head coach. It appears to me that Powell is the better point guard. We also need to do better making in game changes when things start going South. The Jones welcome mat to the hoop should have been addressed when it seemed unstoppable. We also needed to address our offenses when we started going after Brink and she responded with great defense. These are coaching decisions that have to be made in game.