Transfer Portal is a disaster

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Nobody should be surprised. The floodgates were opened when they introduced NIL and transfer portal at essentially the same time with what appears to be little regulation.

The NCAA cannot regulate NIL. It's illegal. So says the Supreme Court by a 9-0 vote in the NCAA vs Alston case.

 

[cgrish]

Has it? It seems to me that the same teams with the most talent before are the same teams stockpiling talent in the NIL/transfer era. Sure they lose more players, but the usual suspects still lead in recruiting, total roster talent, and record.

NIL restrictions help relatively poor teams. True above-the-table pay-for-play will mean the rich get richer, like has happened with coaches (for whom there is an unregulated market).

I disagree, nil and tp has helped to level the playing field. Bama, nor Ga. are as good as they were before nil, and tp. They can no longer have 4 and 5 star players sitting on the bench. They will transfer; before nil I firmly believe these 4 and 5 star players that were not getting playing time were getting paid to stay with under the table money. Now with nil and tp players can get money legally elsewhere. And that's what they are doing.

 

[Orange.]

For those of you who think the TP and NIL is a great idea, let’s discuss how crappy it’s become in just 2.5 years. We have gone from players wanting some money shares for jersey sales and player cards signings for money to pay for play and basically uncontrolled free agency! Bowl season was laughable with players opting out during the game. Starting QBs for new years six games transferring out. Now Quinshon from Mississippi has left and he’s leaving what I feel a very real contender for the Natty next year.

If we don’t get some sort of overseeing body on this soon, college football will not survive!

Thoughts?

This is the first chance that non-pets of the NCAA are getting to move toward a level playing field with the NCAA pets who cheat with impunity. It cancels the effectiveness of their corrupt cronies at the NCAA willfully ignoring their favorites paying players under the table, while dropping the hammer on their favorites' rivals.

Saban (and his sycophant sportscasters, etc.) has brainwashed some naive fans of other teams into thinking this is a "crisis." It's not. It's leveling the playing field. Don't be naive.

Crappy? Best 2.5 years we've had in a while. And don't be so jealous of players making a buck. The under-the-table model that you apparently think of as the golden age was subject to a regime of deliberate and corrupt NCAA unequal enforcement. It was a racket. This is more honest.

 

[LittleCat]

It's a complete mess---rampant commercialism, greed and chaos. Ask the coaches how they like it. They've got to restock their rosters, if they can, constantly. Players leaving in large numbers, some as rising seniors for no good reason save for maybe--maybe--getting sucker money from another school. Widespread tampering. Widespread opt-outs that have turned bowl games into a genuine joke---many of the best players not playing. Appeals to fans and boosters to contribute money to NIL collectives so that your school can out-bribe other schools for high-school prospects who may not even pan out. It's all gotten crass--the athletic version of the Kardashians. No recognition of the free college education they're all getting--a benefit every regular college student would kill for. 18-20 team "conferences" soon, spread all over the country: they aren't conferences at all--just a huge collection of TV-money-grubbers. College football is now some, ridiculous bastardized form of pro football--there's no "college" in it anymore. The sport has no leadership--it's just anything goes now, and every man for himself.

Welcome to the real world baby. How many of us would leave our jobs or companies if we got offered huge money somewhere else? Probably a lot. I see it in my industry often. People chase money. So why are people mad or shaming these kids for chasing money? When there's millions upon millions of dollars at stake, how can anyone fault the kids for finally getting some of the pie?

Saban retired with a net worth around 100million if I read an article correctly. His salary and benefits were ridiculous. Fans should criticize the schools for giving coaches such insane contracts more than players ending up with nil deals for a few years.

 

[tennesseeduke]

This is the first chance that non-pets of the NCAA are getting to move toward a level playing field with the NCAA pets who cheat with impunity. It cancels the effectiveness of their corrupt cronies at the NCAA willfully ignoring their favorites paying players under the table, while dropping the hammer on their favorites' rivals.

Saban (and his sycophant sportscasters, etc.) has brainwashed some naive fans of other teams into thinking this is a "crisis." It's not. It's leveling the playing field. Don't be naive.

Crappy? Best 2.5 years we've had in a while. And don't be so jealous of players making a buck. The under-the-table model that you apparently think of as the golden age was subject to a regime of deliberate and corrupt NCAA unequal enforcement. It was a racket. This is more honest.

I understand that angle however I completely disagree that this is more honest.

 

[Hairy Vols]

I'm not saying they won't get paid and don't legally deserve to get paid.

I'm saying there are ramifications beyond just "players getting money is legally correct."

Colleges without massive academic department earnings won't be able to pay players. That should be obvious. ESPECIALLY, if players unionize across the nation and negotiate wages, which they no doubt will do.

I appreciate your attitude which seems to be: don't worry about the fire, just strike the match already. It's short-sighted, but you're welcome to it.

Payment for players is likely coming and likely possible to sustain at B1G and SEC schools. There are many, many more programs which will never be able to fund players at their market value.

I think the NIL is a fair balance between those things.

And call it short sighted if you will, but there is nothing I can do about it. We don't know what the future will hold and it seems the SEC and B1G are about to take matters into their own hands regardless.

As long as I still see Orange and White on Saturday the off the field stuff can settle itself. I would be worried if football was on the verge of not existing, so I suppose I can supsurp my mindset to understand why those who play sports for programs with low turnouts and that lose money would be stressed.

I'm also calm because these players are FINALLY getting what they deserve. How many players have been hurt in college, not made a dime, lost their scholarships, and didn't sniff an ounce of the money they helped produce for the university?

Far to many my friend.

 

[ZZ13]

I’m an old guy now so tendency is to think it was always better back in the day. But my thought on all this student-athlete stuff has always been the same since I was a student. As a student I could work for the university and get paid. I did that as a referee and umpire of intramural games. And lined the fields as well. Others worked in the cafeterias and as RAs, etc. I could also transfer to any school any time I wanted as many times as I wanted (which I never did). I could also make a TV commercial and get paid for it (which I never did). And I could get anyone I want to pay any of my expenses. So a student should be able to be employed by the university as an athlete and do all the other things I listed. Just gotta stay in good academic standing like every other student is required. That should be the only requirement.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I think the NIL is a fair balance between those things.

And call it short sighted if you will, but there is nothing I can do about it. We don't know what the future will hold and it seems the SEC and B1G are about to take matters into their own hands regardless.

As long as I still see Orange and White on Saturday the off the field stuff can settle itself. I would be worried if football was on the verge of not existing, so I suppose I can supsurp my mindset to understand why those who play sports for programs with low turnouts and that lose money would be stressed.

I'm also calm because these players are FINALLY getting what they deserve. How many players have been hurt in college, not made a dime, lost their scholarships, and didn't sniff an ounce of the money they helped produce for the university?

Far to many my friend.

I agree that there's nothing we can do about it and that it's just for players to be compensated.

Most universities can't afford to pay football and basketball, much less any other athletes. And what makes the effort a tennis player or gymnast puts in for the university any less worthy of pay LEGALLY than a football player? If your attitude is: "well, they're not making the school any money," I can tell you quickly that a business which is failing to make money still has to pay their employees.

Make no mistake, if schools are going to end up paying players to play, they ARE professional athletes and employees of the school. If they are, so is every athlete on a school team.

Even UT will have to look hard at non-revenue sports, but even sadder smaller schools will simply be unable to afford pro sports.

So, absolutely, it's just for athletes bringing in revenue to share in that revenue, but it opens up a legal problem for lots of schools whose athletes justly deserve pay also for their representation of the school whether it's lucrative or not.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I’m an old guy now so tendency is to think it was always better back in the day. But my thought on all this student-athlete stuff has always been the same since I was a student. As a student I could work for the university and get paid. I did that as a referee and umpire of intramural games. And lined the fields as well. Others worked in the cafeterias and as RAs, etc. I could also transfer to any school any time I wanted as many times as I wanted (which I never did). I could also make a TV commercial and get paid for it (which I never did). And I could get anyone I want to pay any of my expenses. So a student should be able to be employed by the university as an athlete and do all the other things I listed. Just gotta stay in good academic standing like every other student is required. That should be the only requirement.

The issue is the athletes will unionize to negotiate their slice of what is a VERY large amount of money. Legally, athletes are already attempting to sue to unionize.

Once collective bargaining starts, the athletes who, not to insult you or your student worker peers, are far more valuable than most other university employees will attempt to negotiate OUT of forced academics, OUT of the "eligibility" limitations, etc.

Essentially, the money is so big and the athletes are so sought after that schools which drop the academics, eligibility, etc will be favored. Schools which pay more and can afford to pay more will be favored.

What you end up with is a pro league. That means a draft to keep rich schools from buying all the talent and salary caps and all the things associated with pro sports.

 

[DaddyChad]

Welcome to the real world baby. How many of us would leave our jobs or companies if we got offered huge money somewhere else? Probably a lot. I see it in my industry often. People chase money. So why are people mad or shaming these kids for chasing money? When there's millions upon millions of dollars at stake, how can anyone fault the kids for finally getting some of the pie?

Saban retired with a net worth around 100million if I read an article correctly. His salary and benefits were ridiculous. Fans should criticize the schools for giving coaches such insane contracts more than players ending up with nil deals for a few years.

Pretty much a lot of these kids dream was to make it to the nfl to make life changing money. They can make life changing money now if they can shop around. Ncaa wants to destroy the market or at least restrict it. I doubt that happens.

 

[ZZ13]

The issue is the athletes will unionize to negotiate their slice of what is a VERY large amount of money. Legally, athletes are already attempting to sue to unionize.

Once collective bargaining starts, the athletes who, not to insult you or your student worker peers, are far more valuable than most other university employees will attempt to negotiate OUT of forced academics, OUT of the "eligibility" limitations, etc.

Essentially, the money is so big and the athletes are so sought after that schools which drop the academics, eligibility, etc will be favored. Schools which pay more and can afford to pay more will be favored.

What you end up with is a pro league. That means a draft to keep rich schools from buying all the talent and salary caps and all the things associated with pro sports.

I’m OK with all that happening.

 

[ptcarter]

I’m OK with all that happening.

Has the HMS Beagle become part of the Vol Navy?

 

[ZZ13]

Has the HMS Beagle become part of the Vol Navy?

Ha! I misread his second paragraph. Now that violates the premise of my post. You gotta be a student - in good academic standing. That’s the requirement.

 

[Revengevol]

Also it seems many players will get left out with nowhere to go from the portal and their previous school may have filled their slot. Not to mention a fouled up transcript that does not get close to a B.S. degree at multiple universities. Some teams may pick up players late in the game as PWOs who were not offered much or anything from the portal process - and then they are available on the cheap.

Well duh what did you expect to let players go from team to team to the highest damn bidder. What dips—t thought of this. Had to be a player or agent.

 

[Hairy Vols]

I agree that there's nothing we can do about it and that it's just for players to be compensated.

Most universities can't afford to pay football and basketball, much less any other athletes. And what makes the effort a tennis player or gymnast puts in for the university any less worthy of pay LEGALLY than a football player? If your attitude is: "well, they're not making the school any money," I can tell you quickly that a business which is failing to make money still has to pay their employees.

Make no mistake, if schools are going to end up paying players to play, they ARE professional athletes and employees of the school. If they are, so is every athlete on a school team.

Even UT will have to look hard at non-revenue sports, but even sadder smaller schools will simply be unable to afford pro sports.

So, absolutely, it's just for athletes bringing in revenue to share in that revenue, but it opens up a legal problem for lots of schools whose athletes justly deserve pay also for their representation of the school whether it's lucrative or not.

The schools aren't directly paying the players. It's NIL collectives. So I'm not sure what that has to do with anything regarding this topic.

So you want to take their NIL money and split it up between other athletes who have no deals or lower tier collectives?

Horrible idea.

And I'm not going to get caught up on their title as athletes because minor league players, plays in dev leagues, and in all other sports than football make money in lower leagues while developing.

Call them minor league players, call them professionals, or just whatever you want. The title doesn't matter to me.

 

[sjt18]

The transfer portal is a "good" thing. It allows athletes one shot to correct a mistake. And... it allows for a little more parity since great talent doesn't have to sit behind other great talent. They can go elsewhere.

The problem is the design and management of it specifically relating to football. No surprise considering the overall incompetence of the NCAA.

There needs to be a defined portal window. I believe it should begin the day after the NC game during the period between Early NSD and NSD. If necessary, move the HS signing period back to March.

HS kids ready to sign in December get their spots. Portal guys get time to consider and act on their options. Programs then have time to fill remaining spots with late HS signees.


There are no perfect ways to do it. The current way however is idiotic.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The schools aren't directly paying the players. It's NIL collectives. So I'm not sure what that has to do with anything regarding this topic.

So you want to take their NIL money and split it up between other athletes who have no deals or lower tier collectives?

Horrible idea.

And I'm not going to get caught up on their title as athletes because minor league players, plays in dev leagues, and in all other sports than football make money in lower leagues while developing.

Call them minor league players, call them professionals, or just whatever you want. The title doesn't matter to me.

I absolutely don't want to regulate NIL money because it will be shown to be illegal. NIL is out of the discussion.

I'm saying that when players become employees, it will be extremely difficult to say a UT football team member IS an employee and a UT tennis team player ISN'T an employee.

If you pay one, you'll need to pay all the employees. This will be expensive and even schools like UT will look at athletics with a "bean counter" in the room.

Schools like Carson-Newman will be completely unable to afford to pay all athletes, possibly any athletes, and if the courts rule players are employees they will either violate the ruling or drop athletics. That is extremely sad for most athletes who aren't elite and, I think, sad for students who will miss out of attending school games.

Schools need to get out of the "sports business." The crux of the Supreme Court ruling was: why are you making so much money from these kids and not paying them. That's illegal.

The few big sports revenue schools and NCAA screwed this all this up for smaller, no sports revenue schools.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

And at some point, the fans will stop watching like they did in the past as well. Hard to imagine, but I could actually envision talking a few thousand seats out of Neyland.

Neyland will be packed, there will still be folks that stay 3-4 years and improve. There will still be marching bands and tailgates. College football has been rising the last 3 years with NIL in play. There is still a ton of players that love their university they play for. Sure some may leave seek different deals, but the market will settle at some point and while transfers will happen over time that will stabilize over time as all power 5 schools will be on the same playing field. Not all players are going to get rich in school and should still be required to pass and attend classes. I think this will keep many kids especially with late round projections to stay in school and get their degree and possibly a higher draft pick staying another year. We are already seeing this. Most players love the college life, when they ask former pro players nearly 75-85 percent say that was the best time of their lives. It’s obvious by the number of pros that come back to campus every fall to follow their team. Yes while this is a new era to say that a majority of athletes don’t care about academics or the university they play for is terribly misguided and quite frankly wrong. GBO

 

[Voltopia]

The few big sports revenue schools and NCAA screwed this all this up for everybody.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Delmar]

I absolutely don't want to regulate NIL money because it will be shown to be illegal. NIL is out of the discussion.

I'm saying that when players become employees, it will be extremely difficult to say a UT football team member IS an employee and a UT tennis team player ISN'T an employee.

If you pay one, you'll need to pay all the employees. This will be expensive and even schools like UT will look at athletics with a "bean counter" in the room.

Schools like Carson-Newman will be completely unable to afford to pay all athletes, possibly any athletes, and if the courts rule players are employees they will either violate the ruling or drop athletics. That is extremely sad for most athletes who aren't elite and, I think, sad for students who will miss out of attending school games.

Schools need to get out of the "sports business." The crux of the Supreme Court ruling was: why are you making so much money from these kids and not paying them. That's illegal.

The few big sports revenue schools and NCAA screwed this all this up for smaller, no sports revenue schools.

The big schools are not getting out of the football and basketball business. Sorry to say it but UT may decide not to have a tennis team. Just like they decided not to have a wrestling team years ago. Some things are bound to suffer for the sake of the new world.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The big schools are not getting out of the football and basketball business. Sorry to say it but UT may decide not to have a tennis team. Just like they decided not to have a wrestling team years ago. Some things are bound to suffer for the sake of the new world.

I don't know how it will shake out.

I've hoped since Alston that this would take forever to wind through the courts.

It seems the NCAA is determined to either retake some control or die trying. My money is on die trying.

I don't like the NCAA but they are literally the devil I know.

 

[Delmar]

Agreed. I think the NCAA is dead man walking. But I disagree on wanting to drag it out. This mess has gone on long enough and there is too much uncertainty. It seems inevitable that we are looking at some version of pro football and basketball. If that’s the case, work out something palatable and move forward. No matter how many people pine for the “old days”, those are dead and gone.

One thing I just thought of on the question of paying all athletes and the Title 9 question. What if all athletes at a school get a nominal “salary” to satisfy Title 9 and access to a profit sharing plan? If your non-revenue sport ain’t producing a profit, there is no “bonus”. The revenue producing athletes (aka major football and basketball programs) get a share of the profits made by the program. Just a random thought. I’m sure there’s something wrong with that idea.

 

[Hairy Vols]

I absolutely don't want to regulate NIL money because it will be shown to be illegal. NIL is out of the discussion.

I'm saying that when players become employees, it will be extremely difficult to say a UT football team member IS an employee and a UT tennis team player ISN'T an employee.

If you pay one, you'll need to pay all the employees. This will be expensive and even schools like UT will look at athletics with a "bean counter" in the room.

Schools like Carson-Newman will be completely unable to afford to pay all athletes, possibly any athletes, and if the courts rule players are employees they will either violate the ruling or drop athletics. That is extremely sad for most athletes who aren't elite and, I think, sad for students who will miss out of attending school games.

Schools need to get out of the "sports business." The crux of the Supreme Court ruling was: why are you making so much money from these kids and not paying them. That's illegal.

The few big sports revenue schools and NCAA screwed this all this up for smaller, no sports revenue schools.

You can't just get "out of the sports business".. Our entire country is based on that foundation.

Nobody is currently paying players via the school, so why are we discussing a hypothetical that isn't even happening at this moment?

It's not happening and until it does I'm not going to entertain the topic of hypothetical fiction.

You're worries about Carson Newman can rest assured be fine. And just because Divison 1 does it doesn't mean Divison 2 has to do it. The rules for these leagues are not synonymous. Ex, they have had a playoff system in place for decades now that works wonderfully.

Greed of the NCAA has kept us from having one for a very long time like the rest of civilized sports.

Futhermore you have no idea how it will play out if the schools went that route. You don't know what plans are in place or pay "x" this way and not this way.. Which is why it isn't worth discussing.

It's crazy everyone now is clammering for "keep money out of sports" NOW that the players are getting a cut, but when the NCAA and colleges were making hand over fists with video games, jersey sales, etc nobody said a word.

Wild to me. But go on.. Please continue.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You can't just get "out of the sports business".. Our entire country is based on that foundation.

Nobody is currently paying players via the school, so why are we discussing a hypothetical that isn't even happening at this moment?

It's not happening and until it does I'm not going to entertain the topic of hypothetical fiction.

You're worries about Carson Newman can rest assured be fine. And just because Divison 1 does it doesn't mean Divison 2 has to do it. The rules for these leagues are not synonymous. Ex, they have had a playoff system in place for decades now that works wonderfully.

Greed of the NCAA has kept us from having one for a very long time like the rest of civilized sports.

Futhermore you have no idea how it will play out if the schools went that route. You don't know what plans are in place or pay "x" this way and not this way.. Which is why it isn't worth discussing.

It's crazy everyone now is clammering for "keep money out of sports" NOW that the players are getting a cut, but when the NCAA and colleges were making hand over fists with video games, jersey sales, etc nobody said a word.

Wild to me. But go on.. Please continue.

Perhaps you've missed the Alston vs NCAA decision. The SCOTUS strongly hinted that the NCAA is in violation of Antitrust Laws and that the "student athlete" business model was illegal. They didn't say D1 had a problem, they said the ENTIRE NCAA had a problem with how it does business.

The NCAA itself is suggesting some schools should start their own NIL, essentially saying "maybe some of you should pay players."

Yes, I hope they can sort out the divisions and not destroy D2 and D3, but the NCAA is the current umbrella organization for most athletics in America.

Either way, as we see the SEC and B1G meeting, the best path is for the big money schools is to get out of the NCAA and into pro sports.

Do you think colleges should own pro sports franchises? It's fine if you do, but I don't see how that fits with the mission of an educational institution.

 

[butchna]

I agree that there's nothing we can do about it and that it's just for players to be compensated.

Most universities can't afford to pay football and basketball, much less any other athletes. And what makes the effort a tennis player or gymnast puts in for the university any less worthy of pay LEGALLY than a football player? If your attitude is: "well, they're not making the school any money," I can tell you quickly that a business which is failing to make money still has to pay their employees.

Make no mistake, if schools are going to end up paying players to play, they ARE professional athletes and employees of the school. If they are, so is every athlete on a school team.

Even UT will have to look hard at non-revenue sports, but even sadder smaller schools will simply be unable to afford pro sports.

So, absolutely, it's just for athletes bringing in revenue to share in that revenue, but it opens up a legal problem for lots of schools whose athletes justly deserve pay also for their representation of the school whether it's lucrative or not.

Local economies free to embrace their teams will only advance success. North Dakota State and James Madison will flourish with their athletes able to hawk Sloppy Joe’s Slop Shop. You underestimate free enterprise because that dynamic has been missing at smaller programs vs European villages…where local teams thrive!