Trickle Down Economics/Debt Deal

#126
#126
This certainly reminds me of some other similar threads in the past by users who mysteriously disappeared.
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#127
#127
lawgator1 said:
The fundamental assumption of trickle down economics as applied to taxation policy is that the wealthy and business owners have a desire to hire more people, and would, if they had more money.

It does not work when the wealthy and the large corporations already have the money, and just don't have the desire to hire anyone. That desire comes from the need for more people caused by demand.

The problem in this economy is not a lack of money to invest in expansion. Its that there is no demand to justify it. The luxury goods producers are reporting massive increases in their sales and revenue. The top folks have plenty to spend -- they are just not spending it on expanding business.

You want to float everyone's boat? Increase demand. You want to increase demand? Force an easing of credit markets, spend some dough on relieving the middle class from the housing debt (take it out of Wall Street's hide, imo), and give the middle class some confidence that they can afford that new washing machine.

The last thing we need to do is give people sitting on mountains of cash more excuses to keep it out of the reach of the IRS.
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Where's this evidence that people wont invest if we lower taxes? That's an absurd argument. More money means more investment. Economics 101.
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#128
#128
VolsNSkinsFan said:
We have discussed the reason earlier.

Now explain why Clinton recently said that the current corporate tax rate is "uncompetitive" and wished that the US would cut corporate taxes?
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Must have been a mistake. Tax hikes get us out of recessions.
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#131
#131
altidore17 said:
That would be silly to actually give facts on the matter instead of conservative theories. I'm pretty bi-partisan myself but these guys make me feel far left.
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This made me laugh. U are not in the slightest bipartisan. It's one word btw.
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#132
#132
altidore17 said:
What a surprise you didn't answer the question again. Raising taxes on the rich worked under Clinton but can't work now? Ok that makes sense what exactly is your thinking behind that?
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Your causation skills are rather lacking. Are you seriously arguing the minor tax raises are the reason the dot com boom happened? You might want to look at when clinton actually raised taxes.
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#133
#133
altidore17 said:
That would be silly to actually give facts on the matter instead of conservative theories. I'm pretty bi-partisan myself but these guys make me feel far left.
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Do you not know the problems plaguing Greece? Things have to be spelled out for you?
 
#134
#134
droski said:
Your causation skills are rather lacking. Are you seriously arguing the minor tax raises are the reason the dot com boom happened? You might want to look at when clinton actually raised taxes.
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also look at the trend in GDP growth just before and just after the tax hikes - trend suggests hikes slowed growth.
 
#137
#137
droski said:
Your causation skills are rather lacking. Are you seriously arguing the minor tax raises are the reason the dot com boom happened? You might want to look at when clinton actually raised taxes.
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When Bush cut taxes during the recession did it work? No. It didn't.
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#140
#140
altidore17 said:
That would be silly to actually give facts on the matter instead of conservative theories. I'm pretty bi-partisan myself but these guys make me feel far left.
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altidore, why don't you put yourself in a business owner's situation.

if you're starting a company and your company succeeds and business increases, would you not have to hire more people to run your business effectively? or would you not need to buy more products if your company is successful? I'm hoping your answer is yes.

however, if the government comes in and taxes you more and places more regulation on you, how will you be able to hire more people with less capital. could you explain to us common folk?
 
#141
#141
altidore17 said:
When Bush cut taxes during the recession did it work? No. It didn't.
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In terms of the 03 slashes, growth averaged nearly 4% over the next three years, the jobless rate fell, and real wages began to grow. Revenue also increased.
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#143
#143
bam15 said:
In terms of the 03 slashes, growth averaged nearly 4% over the next three years, the jobless rate fell, and real wages began to grow. Revenue also increased.
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the government had the highest treasury receipts in history during the Bush years.
 
#144
#144
I think the proper model is to spend in times of recession, and save during times of propserity to maintain stability. We (including both parties) never quite figured out that savings part, and we are forced to deal with a debt crisis in a bad economic climate. Cutting spending, nor raising taxes is going to result in good news for the economy, but it must be done. And while I think spending can be a stimulus, it's is obvious that government is completely incompetent right now.
 
#145
#145
joevol320 said:
the government had the highest treasury receipts in history during the Bush years.
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So the economy now is in no way related to what the Bush administration did while in office. Ok, check. Am I on volnation or foxnews.com?
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#146
#146
Weezy said:
I think the proper model is to spend in times of recession, and save during times of propserity to maintain stability. We (including both parties) never quite figured out that savings part, and we are forced to deal with a debt crisis in a bad economic climate. Cutting spending, nor raising taxes is going to result in good news for the economy, but it must be done. And while I think spending can be a stimulus, it's is obvious that government is completely incompetent right now.
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And of course it's up to their discretion on what to spend on and how they go about "saving"
 
#147
#147
altidore17 said:
So the economy now is in no way related to what the Bush administration did while in office. Ok, check. Am I on volnation or foxnews.com?
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Of course bush played a hand. He spent like a mad man. But the tax cuts aren't the issue.
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#148
#148
How much sense does it make for Obama to say to the wealthy: "I'm going to raise your taxes, now go out there and hire!"
 
#149
#149
Claiming he wasn't afraid to let everyone in attendance know about "the real mess we're in," Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke reportedly got drunk Tuesday and told everyone at Elwood's Corner Tavern about how absolutely ****ed the U.S. economy actually is.

Bernanke, who sources confirmed was "totally sloshed," arrived at the drinking establishment at approximately 5:30 p.m., ensconced himself upon a bar stool, and consumed several bottles of Miller High Life and a half-dozen shots of whiskey while loudly proclaiming to any patron who would listen that the economic outlook was "pretty damned awful if you want the God's honest truth."

"Look, they don't want anyone except for the Washington, D.C. bigwigs to know how bad **** really is," said Bernanke, slurring his words as he spoke. "Mounting debt exacerbated—and not relieved—by unchecked consumption, spiraling interest rates, and the grim realities of an inevitable worldwide energy crisis are projected to leave our entire economy in the ****ter for, like, a generation, man, I'm telling you."

Enlarge Image

A drunken Bernanke attempts to find the Aerosmith song "Back In The Saddle" on the bar jukebox.

"And hell, as long as we're being honest, I might as well tell you that a truer estimate of the U.S. unemployment rate is actually up around 16 percent, with a 0.7 percent annual rate of economic growth if we're lucky—if we're lucky," continued Bernanke, nearly knocking a full beer over while gesturing with his hands. "Of course, if everybody knew that, it would likely cripple financial markets across the entire ****ing globe, even in various emerging economies with self- sustaining growth."

After launching into an extended 45-minute diatribe about shortsighted moves by "those bastards in Congress" that could potentially exacerbate the nation's already deeply troublesome budget imbalance, the Federal Reserve chairman reportedly bought a round of tequila shots for two customers he had just met who were seated on either side of him, announcing, "I love these guys."

Numerous bar patrons slowly nodded in agreement as Bernanke went on to suggest the United States could pass three or four more stimulus packages and "it wouldn't even matter."

"You think that's going to create long-term economic growth, let alone promote job creation?" Bernanke said. "We're way beyond that, my friend. There are no jobs, okay? There's nothing. I think that calls for another drink, don't you?"

While using beer bottles and pretzel sticks in an attempt to explain to the bartender the importance of infusing $650 billion into the bond market, the inebriated Fed chairman nearly fell off his stool and had to be held up by the patron sitting next to him.

Another bargoer confirmed Bernanke stood about 2 inches from her face and sprayed her with saliva, claiming inflation was going to "totally screw" consumer confidence and then asking if he could bum a smoke.

"Sure, we could hold down long-term interest rates and pursue a program of quantitative easing, but c'mon, we all know that's not going to make the slightest bit of difference when it comes to output, demand, or employment," Bernanke said before being told to "try to keep [his] voice down" by the bartender. "And trust me, with the value of the U.S. dollar in the toilet, import costs going through the roof, and numerous world governments unprepared for their own substantial debt burdens, ****'s not looking too good for us abroad, either."

"God, I'm so wasted," added Bernanke, resting his head on the bar.

Later in the evening, Richard Kampman, a truck driver who was laid off in 2010, said Bernanke approached him in the men's restroom and attempted to strike up a conversation about various factors contributing to the current financial crisis.

"He stumbled up to the urinal and started mumbling on about the depressed housing sector or something," said Kampman, who claimed Bernanke had to use both hands on the wall to steady himself. "Then after a while he just sort of stopped and I couldn't tell if he was laughing or crying."

"Then he puked all over the sink and the mirror," Kampman added.

Customers at the bar told reporters the "****faced" and disruptive Bernanke refused to pay for his drinks with U.S. currency, claiming it was "worthless." Witnesses also confirmed that near the end of the evening, Bernanke put money into the jukebox and selected Dire Straits' "Money For Nothing" to play five times in a row.

"This is what it's all about," said Bernanke, who reportedly danced alone in the middle of the dark tavern. "****ing love this song."
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Drunken Ben Bernanke Tells Everyone At Neighborhood Bar How Screwed U.S. Economy Really Is | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
 
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