Trump's tax returns to be released to the Dems...

#51
#51
Thunder Good-Oil said:
How do we know how accurate the Forbes estimate is? They are likely basing it on the addresses of buildings he has had an interest in. They would struggle to even determine what his shares were with the complexity of capital structures. Plus when they estimate the wealth of guys like Musk or Bezos they use public filings of holdings in public companies. Most of Trump’s holdings are private and aren’t accessible to a magazine publisher.
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In the past, Trump gave them detailed listing of his holdings plus his "value" for them so Forbes knows a decent bit. Who is to say Forbes knows the amount of debt Trump has....
 
#52
#52
TN Ribs said:
I don't need to get him legally. Anyone with half a brain knows he's a lying, thieving, scumbag insurrectionist.
You don't need the legal system to tell you that, it's there for everyone to see.
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So you think Trump, actually the accounting firms Trump uses to do his taxes , are different from other billionaires and their accounting firms ? He’s the cheating scumbag that is working our tax codes but they aren’t ? How many congressmen and women that you wanted into office are not doing the exact things he is doing ? I love the hypocrisy
 
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#53
#53
Does anybody have copies of Hillary’s and Bill’s and Barack’s and Michelle’s and Nancy’s and Paul’s and Soros’s and Hunter, Jill, and The Big Guy’s tax returns?
 
#54
#54
BigOrangeMojo said:
In the past, Trump gave them detailed listing of his holdings plus his "value" for them so Forbes knows a decent bit. Who is to say Forbes knows the amount of debt Trump has....
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And what goes on those filings? Book values or current market values? There’s considerable wiggle room. Trump has done well.
 
#56
#56
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And what goes on those filings? Book values or current market values? There’s considerable wiggle room. Trump has done well.
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Trump has significantly underperformed the Manhattan real estate market and the S&P 500.

If I gave you over $400 million in stepped up inherited property almost 50 years ago, I bet you would have far exceeded what Trump has done. I would suspect you would be at or approaching 11 figures.

Trump is far better at branding than he was in developing....
 
#57
#57
BigOrangeMojo said:
Trump has significantly underperformed the Manhattan real estate market and the S&P 500.

If I gave you over $400 million in stepped up inherited property almost 50 years ago, I bet you would have far exceeded what Trump has done. I would suspect you would be at or approaching 11 figures.

Trump is far better at branding than he was in developing....
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When you step up the basis on an inheritance the strategy would be to assign the largest valuation possible. When negotiating an assessed valuation with municipal taxing authorities the motivation for determining a valuation is the opposite.
 
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#58
#58
Wasn’t Daddy Trump a slumlord that passed down ghetto properties to his son? Also, when establishing the number that supposedly determines Donald’s wealth, are they including that which he has disbursed to his relatives?

Daddy didn’t gift him these:

720F5531-EBA8-414F-B8B7-D5A6AB3342FE.jpegBA641C4C-2A49-407F-AAEA-BBC601C7F34D.jpeg
 
#59
#59
Here's my working theory @Thunder Good-Oil

He doesn't want the returns disclosed. Here is why IMO.

1. There will be little to no taxable income for 25 to 30 years. Some of that is due to tax preferences for leveraged developers but that long of a track record of tax losses and underperformance compared to the Manhattan real estate market shows that his business acumen isn't what he portrays and isn't a good developer. We can go back and forth on valuations but if he was a mutual fund, you wouldn't invest in him....

2. There will be limited charitable donations. It's his money but bad optics.

3. Probably some shifting of intangible assets overseas. Again, legal if done right but questionable optics

I dont think fraud is as much at play as the myth that he's a great businessman will be significantly impacted by the revelations....
 
#60
#60
Too bad the statute of limitations prevents investigations into the wealth accumulation of Prescott Bush’s heirs and Joe Kennedy’s party liquor dealings.
 
#61
#61
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Too bad the statute of limitations prevents investigations into the wealth accumulation of Prescott Bush’s heirs and Joe Kennedy’s party liquor dealings.
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I have been with you so far but that's a ****** argument. Bc x gets away with something doesn't mean Y should. And I am not saying Y happened
 
#62
#62
BigOrangeMojo said:
Here's my working theory @Thunder Good-Oil

He doesn't want the returns disclosed. Here is why IMO.

1. There will be little to no taxable income for 25 to 30 years. Some of that is due to tax preferences for leveraged developers but that long of a track record of tax losses and underperformance compared to the Manhattan real estate market shows that his business acumen isn't what he portrays and isn't a good developer. We can go back and forth on valuations but if he was a mutual fund, you wouldn't invest in him....

2. There will be limited charitable donations. It's his money but bad optics.

3. Probably some shifting of intangible assets overseas. Again, legal if done right but questionable optics

I dont think fraud is as much at play as the myth that he's a great businessman will be significantly impacted by the revelations....
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I think it is far more simple. Anything that he discloses will lead to more endless attacks and investigations by Dems (and the DOJ they’ve weaponized) for the rest of his life and beyond.
 
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#63
#63
volfanhill said:
I have been with you so far but that's a ****** argument. Bc x gets away with something doesn't mean Y should. And I am not saying Y happened
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Prescott and Joe won’t spend one day in jail and no assets will be seized decades later. But I’d be interested in knowing how much of those families’ wealth was accumulated by illegal dealings.
 
#64
#64
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Wasn’t Daddy Trump a slumlord that passed down ghetto properties to his son? Also, when establishing the number that supposedly determines Donald’s wealth, are they including that which he has disbursed to his relatives?

Daddy didn’t gift him these:

View attachment 517062View attachment 517063
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$100 invested in the S&P500 in 1975 would be worth $19,122.88 today. $100MM invested would be $19.1 billion. That's a whole lot more than $3.2 billion.

But yeah, those buildings are pretty.
 
#65
#65
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Wasn’t Daddy Trump a slumlord that passed down ghetto properties to his son? Also, when establishing the number that supposedly determines Donald’s wealth, are they including that which he has disbursed to his relatives?

Daddy didn’t gift him these:

View attachment 517062View attachment 517063
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He’s a huge failure just like Elon. Look at how successful Dementia Joe, Barry, and the Clinton’s are just from all their hard work.
 
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#66
#66
And what is the end game here? Why should there be endless investigations into the past dealings of anybody using government funds when the net returns for the effort are almost guaranteed to be negative (except for the lawyers)? If my grandpa didn’t run every sale through the cash register in his mom and pop music store 50 years ago, am I liable to Crook County, Illinois for anything that might not have been reported?

How many more times will the Dems impeach Donald?
 
#67
#67
BigOrangeMojo said:
$100 invested in the S&P500 in 1975 would be worth $19,122.88 today. $100MM invested would be $19.1 billion. That's a whole lot more than $3.2 billion.

But yeah, those buildings are pretty.
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How many 50 year investments have you made?
 
#68
#68
Thunder Good-Oil said:
And what is the end game here? Why should there be endless investigations into the past dealings of anybody using government funds when the net returns for the effort are almost guaranteed to be negative (except for the lawyers)? If my grandpa didn’t run every sale through the cash register in his mom and pop music store 50 years ago, am I liable to Crook County, Illinois for anything that might not have been reported?

How many more times will the Dems impeach Donald?
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We agree here
 
#70
#70
BigOrangeMojo said:
$100 invested in the S&P500 in 1975 would be worth $19,122.88 today. $100MM invested would be $19.1 billion. That's a whole lot more than $3.2 billion.

But yeah, those buildings are pretty.
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Made up numbers from disparate sources without validation. Nobody knows if $3.2 billion is accurate or the $400 assumed valuation of the starting point.
 
#72
#72
It isn’t possible to round up the details to determine the whole picture. Was the $400 million before or after death taxes? How much of Donald’s wealth has been dispersed to foundations, ex-wives, children, shielded trust entities, off shore investments, Russian hookers, etc.?
 
#74
#74
Thunder Good-Oil said:
It isn’t possible to round up the details to determine the whole picture. Was the $400 million before or after death taxes? How much of Donald’s wealth has been dispersed to foundations, ex-wives, children, shielded trust entities, off shore investments, Russian hookers, etc.?
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It's impossible to factor in the wives, the lifestyle in the networth calculations.

With that being said, he has some major misses (casinos, gold courses).

Even if the $400 was $100 or $600, it doesn't change the fact that he's not the real estate savant people think he is. I think that will be shown if the returns are released. He is extremely strong with branding and I will assume most of the taxable income he makes will be from branding as opposed to real property operations.
 
#75
#75
BigOrangeMojo said:
It's impossible to factor in the wives, the lifestyle in the networth calculations.

With that being said, he has some major misses (casinos, gold courses).

Even if the $400 was $100 or $600, it doesn't change the fact that he's not the real estate savant people think he is. I think that will be shown if the returns are released. He is extremely strong with branding and I will assume most of the taxable income he makes will be from branding as opposed to real property operations.
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For somebody that sucks at real estate, he sure has his name on a lot of purty buildings.

Defunct brands don’t necessarily correlate to negative changes in Donald’s wealth. He could have extracted millions before shuttering or selling any of those businesses. The P&Ls on all of those ventures aren’t public information and neither is his current or previous personal balance sheets. He can brag about and inflate his history however he wants and I really don’t GAS. It’s not like he took Daddy’s wealth and lost it or became a drug addicted international influence/access peddler.

Every highly successful entrepreneur either has some misses or they aren’t trying.
 
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