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Fw: AP style doesn't ban the Oxford comma
B
AP Stylebook Newsletter

May 2023
Did you miss out on our AP Stylebook Workshop?

If the timing wasn't right for you this spring, or you didn't have enough lead time to convince your boss, we have good news. The Stylebook Workshop is back!

Among the many things included in this jampacked series is instruction on our comma guidance. Many people are surprised to learn that we recommend the Oxford comma in many cases.

Don't believe me? Read our entry below.


Colleen Newvine
product manager, AP Stylebook




We don't ban the Oxford comma
The shorthand understanding seems to be that the Chicago Manual of Style is pro-Oxford comma and the AP Stylebook is anti-Oxford comma.

While that's generally the case, the truth is that both Chicago and AP give more nuanced guidance than that.

It often surprises people to learn that AP style advocates for what's also called the serial comma in some uses.

This is an excerpt from our comma entry:

IN A SERIES: Use commas to separate elements in a series, but do not put a comma before the conjunction in most simple series: His grandchildren are Vera, Chuck and Dave. He would nominate Marquez, Bedi, Lyman or Wong. She goes to school, plays league soccer and takes private dance lessons.

Include a final comma in a simple series if omitting it could make the meaning unclear. The governor convened his most trusted advisers, economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If Schneider and Torres are his most trusted advisers, don’t use the final comma.) The governor convened his most trusted advisers, economist Olivia Schneider, and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If the governor is convening unidentified advisers plus Schneider and Torres, the final comma is needed.)
Note, though, that rephrasing often is better:
The governor convened economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres, his two most trusted advisers. Or The governor convened his most trusted advisers: economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If Schneider and Torres are the governor's most trusted advisers.)
The governor convened his most trusted advisers, along with economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If the governor is convening unidentified advisers plus Schneider and Torres.)

Put a comma before the concluding conjunction in a series if an integral element of the series requires a conjunction: I had orange juice, toast, and ham and eggs for breakfast.

Use a comma also before the concluding conjunction in a complex series of phrases: The main points to consider are whether the athletes are skillful enough to compete, whether they have the stamina to endure the training, and whether they have the proper mental attitude.

See dash and semicolon for cases when elements of a series contain internal commas.


Subscribe to AP Stylebook Online for the rest of our guidance on commas, plus a whole lot more.

We offer a variety of discounts, including for members of ACES, AAJA, PRSA, SPJ, AHCJ and RTDNA, as well as members of the AP’s not-for-profit news cooperative. Plus your cost per user goes down when you buy a multiuser site license.



Join the AP Stylebook Workshop this fall
Our spring session was so popular that we're doing it again

Our first-ever workshop was a hit!

About 92% of participants rated the workshop good or excellent, and 96% of participants gave a good or excellent rating to our short videos about AP style fundamentals like commas and hyphens.

If you missed out, mark your calendar for four Wednesdays starting Oct. 25 because we're offering another AP Stylebook Workshop.

Our editors will help you hone your skills on the mechanics of writing and editing, as well as your approach to storytelling and content.

Join four live webinars with the Stylebook editors to learn directly from the journalists who make AP style.

You'll have the chance to ask questions live during webinars as well as anytime on the online classroom. You can network with your classmates and get their input.

>> Learn more

Praise from Stylebook Workshop participants:

Whether you use the AP Stylebook as a journalist, marketer, educator or other communications professional, this course is for you! You'll get a peek inside the minds of the people behind the scenes to better understand how changes happen and how to use the guide. You'll also learn troubleshooting tips for how to solve a problem that isn't specifically called out in the stylebook. My company uses the AP Stylebook as a foundation for our copy style guidelines. This course gave me more confidence in the style decisions I've already made and helped me feel ready to take on the next challenges that come my way. Thank you to all the AP leaders who shared their wisdom and took us on this word nerd journey. I hope there are follow-up sessions!
- Nancy Hall, content manager

The AP Stylebook workshop is every grammar-lover's dream - to hear from the experts how decisions are made and when to break the rules is invaluable insight for all communicators.
- Nathaniel Longmore, digital communications coordinator

The AP Stylebook Workshop was a very helpful and manageable course for me to improve my editing capabilities. As a full-time marketing and communications professional, I don't have the time for a long course spanning many weeks and long sessions. This was extremely accessible and informative. I left the course feeling confident in my editing skills and refreshed with new knowledge.
-Christi Magnano, senior marketing specialist

The world is ever changing, and the AP Style Team is well aware. The team's mission of helping people write for their own audience was a clear judgment-free mission. I felt uplifted and understood. The AP Style Team was inviting and punctual every live session, and they were extremely respectful of everyone's time. I recommend this course to anyone and everyone involved in news, writing, editing, media, business, etc.
- Hannah Eubanks, web publisher and editor

>> Sign up now at the early-bird rate and get immediate access to the online classroom, AP Stylebook Online and AP Stylebook Study Guides.




Highlights of our social media style tips
We offer a mix of AP style tips on social media — some are timed to what's in the news and others are evergreen grammar, punctuation or spelling guidance.
Use quotes around the slang term “woke," which originally described enlightenment or awakening about issues of racial and other forms of social justice.
Some people and groups, especially conservatives, now use it in a derogatory sense implying what they see as overreactions. pic.twitter.com/Tlowr9zD3C
Use the term Hawaii residents — not Hawaiians — for the overall population of Hawaii. Use the term Hawaiian or Hawaiians only for members of the ethnic group indigenous to the Hawaiian Islands. They also may be called Native Hawaiians or Hawaii's Indigenous people.
Our style: canceled, with one "l," but cancellations, with two. US to propose new rules for airline cancellations, delays
In general, we spell out numbers at the start of a sentence: Fifteen to 20 cars crashed. An exception is years: 1992 was a good year. Another exception: Numeral(s) and letter(s) combinations: 401(k) plans are offered. 4K TVs are on sale. 3D movies are fun.
In our style, "flyer" is the preferred spelling to refer to a person flying in an aircraft, and for handbills: He used his frequent flyer miles; they put up flyers announcing the show. Use "flier" in the phrase take a flier, meaning to take a big risk.
Use the term global warming in referring to the increase of average temperature around the world. It is one aspect of climate change. Do not use this term as a synonym for climate change.


For AP style pointers like these, connect with us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or LinkedIn. Catch up with our most popular style tips on this highlights summary, or for the most comprehensive and up-to-date AP style guidance, subscribe to AP Stylebook Online.




The Associated Press is an independent global news organization dedicated to factual reporting. Founded in 1846, AP today remains the most trusted source of fast, accurate, unbiased news in all formats and the essential provider of the technology and services vital to the news business. More than half the world’s population sees AP journalism every day.



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#4,853
#4,853
ArdentVol said:
@VolNExile
@GordonC

Fw: AP style doesn't ban the Oxford comma
B
AP Stylebook Newsletter

May 2023
Did you miss out on our AP Stylebook Workshop?

If the timing wasn't right for you this spring, or you didn't have enough lead time to convince your boss, we have good news. The Stylebook Workshop is back!

Among the many things included in this jampacked series is instruction on our comma guidance. Many people are surprised to learn that we recommend the Oxford comma in many cases.

Don't believe me? Read our entry below.


Colleen Newvine
product manager, AP Stylebook




We don't ban the Oxford comma
The shorthand understanding seems to be that the Chicago Manual of Style is pro-Oxford comma and the AP Stylebook is anti-Oxford comma.

While that's generally the case, the truth is that both Chicago and AP give more nuanced guidance than that.

It often surprises people to learn that AP style advocates for what's also called the serial comma in some uses.

This is an excerpt from our comma entry:

IN A SERIES: Use commas to separate elements in a series, but do not put a comma before the conjunction in most simple series: His grandchildren are Vera, Chuck and Dave. He would nominate Marquez, Bedi, Lyman or Wong. She goes to school, plays league soccer and takes private dance lessons.

Include a final comma in a simple series if omitting it could make the meaning unclear. The governor convened his most trusted advisers, economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If Schneider and Torres are his most trusted advisers, don’t use the final comma.) The governor convened his most trusted advisers, economist Olivia Schneider, and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If the governor is convening unidentified advisers plus Schneider and Torres, the final comma is needed.)
Note, though, that rephrasing often is better:
The governor convened economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres, his two most trusted advisers. Or The governor convened his most trusted advisers: economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If Schneider and Torres are the governor's most trusted advisers.)
The governor convened his most trusted advisers, along with economist Olivia Schneider and polling expert Carlton Torres. (If the governor is convening unidentified advisers plus Schneider and Torres.)

Put a comma before the concluding conjunction in a series if an integral element of the series requires a conjunction: I had orange juice, toast, and ham and eggs for breakfast.

Use a comma also before the concluding conjunction in a complex series of phrases: The main points to consider are whether the athletes are skillful enough to compete, whether they have the stamina to endure the training, and whether they have the proper mental attitude.

See dash and semicolon for cases when elements of a series contain internal commas.


Subscribe to AP Stylebook Online for the rest of our guidance on commas, plus a whole lot more.

We offer a variety of discounts, including for members of ACES, AAJA, PRSA, SPJ, AHCJ and RTDNA, as well as members of the AP’s not-for-profit news cooperative. Plus your cost per user goes down when you buy a multiuser site license.



Join the AP Stylebook Workshop this fall
Our spring session was so popular that we're doing it again

Our first-ever workshop was a hit!

About 92% of participants rated the workshop good or excellent, and 96% of participants gave a good or excellent rating to our short videos about AP style fundamentals like commas and hyphens.

If you missed out, mark your calendar for four Wednesdays starting Oct. 25 because we're offering another AP Stylebook Workshop.

Our editors will help you hone your skills on the mechanics of writing and editing, as well as your approach to storytelling and content.

Join four live webinars with the Stylebook editors to learn directly from the journalists who make AP style.

You'll have the chance to ask questions live during webinars as well as anytime on the online classroom. You can network with your classmates and get their input.

>> Learn more

Praise from Stylebook Workshop participants:

Whether you use the AP Stylebook as a journalist, marketer, educator or other communications professional, this course is for you! You'll get a peek inside the minds of the people behind the scenes to better understand how changes happen and how to use the guide. You'll also learn troubleshooting tips for how to solve a problem that isn't specifically called out in the stylebook. My company uses the AP Stylebook as a foundation for our copy style guidelines. This course gave me more confidence in the style decisions I've already made and helped me feel ready to take on the next challenges that come my way. Thank you to all the AP leaders who shared their wisdom and took us on this word nerd journey. I hope there are follow-up sessions!
- Nancy Hall, content manager

The AP Stylebook workshop is every grammar-lover's dream - to hear from the experts how decisions are made and when to break the rules is invaluable insight for all communicators.
- Nathaniel Longmore, digital communications coordinator

The AP Stylebook Workshop was a very helpful and manageable course for me to improve my editing capabilities. As a full-time marketing and communications professional, I don't have the time for a long course spanning many weeks and long sessions. This was extremely accessible and informative. I left the course feeling confident in my editing skills and refreshed with new knowledge.
-Christi Magnano, senior marketing specialist

The world is ever changing, and the AP Style Team is well aware. The team's mission of helping people write for their own audience was a clear judgment-free mission. I felt uplifted and understood. The AP Style Team was inviting and punctual every live session, and they were extremely respectful of everyone's time. I recommend this course to anyone and everyone involved in news, writing, editing, media, business, etc.
- Hannah Eubanks, web publisher and editor

>> Sign up now at the early-bird rate and get immediate access to the online classroom, AP Stylebook Online and AP Stylebook Study Guides.




Highlights of our social media style tips
We offer a mix of AP style tips on social media — some are timed to what's in the news and others are evergreen grammar, punctuation or spelling guidance.
Use quotes around the slang term “woke," which originally described enlightenment or awakening about issues of racial and other forms of social justice.
Some people and groups, especially conservatives, now use it in a derogatory sense implying what they see as overreactions. pic.twitter.com/Tlowr9zD3C
Use the term Hawaii residents — not Hawaiians — for the overall population of Hawaii. Use the term Hawaiian or Hawaiians only for members of the ethnic group indigenous to the Hawaiian Islands. They also may be called Native Hawaiians or Hawaii's Indigenous people.
Our style: canceled, with one "l," but cancellations, with two. US to propose new rules for airline cancellations, delays
In general, we spell out numbers at the start of a sentence: Fifteen to 20 cars crashed. An exception is years: 1992 was a good year. Another exception: Numeral(s) and letter(s) combinations: 401(k) plans are offered. 4K TVs are on sale. 3D movies are fun.
In our style, "flyer" is the preferred spelling to refer to a person flying in an aircraft, and for handbills: He used his frequent flyer miles; they put up flyers announcing the show. Use "flier" in the phrase take a flier, meaning to take a big risk.
Use the term global warming in referring to the increase of average temperature around the world. It is one aspect of climate change. Do not use this term as a synonym for climate change.


For AP style pointers like these, connect with us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or LinkedIn. Catch up with our most popular style tips on this highlights summary, or for the most comprehensive and up-to-date AP style guidance, subscribe to AP Stylebook Online.




The Associated Press is an independent global news organization dedicated to factual reporting. Founded in 1846, AP today remains the most trusted source of fast, accurate, unbiased news in all formats and the essential provider of the technology and services vital to the news business. More than half the world’s population sees AP journalism every day.



STAY CONNECTED

fb tw in ig

© 2023 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
200 Liberty St., New York, NY 10281

Contact us Update your preferences or unsubscribe
Click to expand...
tl;dr
wtf; it's late
HAHAHA
(1) These are appositives identifying or renaming advisers, and neither of them counts as an item in a series. Using the word "respectively" ( after a comma) would have also worked.
(2) Ham and eggs, like macaroni and cheese and dinner and a movie are compound singular nouns most of the time. When they are, the and in the compound does not count as a conjunction that joins items in the series, and putting the "integral" part in there in the rule is nonsensical jargonese.
(3) There are two word groups in English: phrases and clauses. Those three are clauses, not phrases.
(4) The AP Style sucks donkey balls, and apparently their style guide writers don't know basic English either.
 
Last edited:
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#4,854
#4,854
GordonC said:
tl;dr
wtf; it's late
HAHAHA
(1) These are appositives identifying or renaming advisers, and neither of them counts as an item in a series. Using the word "respectively" ( after a comma) would have also worked.
(2) Ham and eggs, like macaroni and cheese and dinner and a movie, are compound singular nouns most of the time. When they are, the and in the compound does not count as a conjunction that joins items in the series, and putting the "integral" part in there in the rule is nonsensical jargonese.
(3) There are two word groups in English: phrases and clauses. Those three are clauses, not phrases.
(4) The AP Style sucks donkey balls, and apparently their style guide writers don't know basic English either.
Click to expand...
I knew that the examples were idiotic, but I didn’t have Them Fancy Words to explain why. That was great.

Does the AP not have any editors that Stylebook could borrow?
 
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#4,856
#4,856
rachel-rachel-green.gif
 
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#4,860
#4,860
In Fubar Arnold made a joke about cleaning the barnacles off his dingy and it was funny. I thought I found a good opportunity to use it but some people got no sense of humor.
 
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#4,863
#4,863
Behr said:
In Fubar Arnold made a joke about cleaning the barnacles off his dingy and it was funny. I thought I found a good opportunity to use it but some people got no sense of humor.
Click to expand...
We know that your sense of humor is lacking. Nobody in the’Zone holds this against you. You need not be anxious.
 
#4,870
#4,870
Behr said:
I also see others say "all the sudden". I always thought it was 'all of a sudden'.
Click to expand...
Yes
And some people say "did it on accident" rather than "did it by accident."
Edit: and "a couple mangoes" rather than "a couple of mangoes."
 
#4,871
#4,871
GordonC said:
Yes
And some people say "did it on accident" rather than "did it by accident."
Edit: and "a couple mangoes" rather than "a couple of mangoes."
Click to expand...
Still, the one that gets me more than any is then/than. Dude in the PF that stops in here every once in awhile uses them backwards errtime. I commented several times and got no response. I now believe he must be doing it on purpose. Has to be.
 
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#4,872
#4,872
Behr said:
Still, the one that gets me more than any is then/than. Dude in the PF that stops in here every once in awhile uses them backwards errtime. I commented several times and got no response. I now believe he must be doing it on purpose. Has to be.
Click to expand...
hahaha difficult to know but I haven't noticed anybody coming in here, doing that, and leaving
There are so many I see and hear each day; loose and lose are the same way.
 
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