U.S. Healthcare system ranked 37th in the World (WHO)

#52
#52
allvol123 said:
My position is fine, look at the people in America, I know where they go to find treatment. You are the one relying on some ridiculous article with some minuscule statistics for your argument. Read through this thread, I don't see anyone that thinks your position is even reasonable.
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I guess you expect me to believe, you have done more research on this topic, then say the World Health Organization?

Why is it so difficult for you defend your position with some statistics or articles, etc? Is that such a difficult request? To actually present both sides to allow people to make up their mind after hearing both cases?
 
#53
#53
oklavol said:
I guess you expect me to believe, you have done more research on this topic, then say the World Health Organization?

Why is it so difficult for you defend your position with some statistics or articles, etc? Is that such a difficult request? To actually present both sides to allow people to make up their mind after hearing both cases?
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What statistics? That the overwhelming majority of Americans get their treatment in the US. I don't have a source but I am pretty comfortable with the claim.
 
#54
#54
Just think if we didn't pay all those taxes and people only got taxed on what they bought. Plus, if the top 50% of all income earners didn't pay like 95% of ALL income taxes, I'm pretty certain that the prices would fall because more money was being made on the procedure. Also you could completely fund a better government health care system since a Flat Tax would get everyone paying the right amount of taxes.
 
#55
#55
oklavol said:
I guess you expect me to believe, you have done more research on this topic, then say the World Health Organization?

Why is it so difficult for you defend your position with some statistics or articles, etc? Is that such a difficult request? To actually present both sides to allow people to make up their mind after hearing both cases?
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Look at the metrics used by the WHO - the US ranks at the top on 1 or 2 of the criteria but gets hammered on cost -- as mentioned in a previous post cost is in large part driven by medical advancements. You can add in malpractice premiums, regulatory costs and other litigation premiums etc.

In other words, the US ranking is based more on cost and how evenly the level of care is spread vs. the quality of care.

Choose different criteria or change the weighting and I bet we come out on top (or near the top).
 
#56
#56
OK, so as to shed further light on this so-called "ranking:"

WHO’s assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system’s financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).
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The entire report is PR-2000-43/ WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION : ASSESSES THE WORLD'S HEALTH SYSTEMS

I think that most of us would accept this as one way of ranking health care, but maybe not the way that we would rank it. This assessment primarily rewards the average quality obtained by a large percentage of the population, and the general overall health of the country. On a "global" scale, the U.S. fares poorly in these regards. You can thank capitalism, poor health habits (McDonalds, RJ Reynolds, soap operas), and a common sense of laziness and apathy for that.

However, when educated professionals with insurance coverage and a savings account are looking for life-saving treatment, what percentage do you think would travel to any of these over the US?

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
 
#57
#57
oklavol said:
55k to ONE hospital in Thailand alone.
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Also, since you are discussing US healthcare against the rest of the world. It is interesting you bring up this example of a US citizen going to Thailand and paying $10,000 for a procedure that would cost him $90,000 in America. Tell me, how much money do you think the average Thai makes? Maybe $300 month? So this $10,000 procedure is basically going to cost him 3 years salary. Not sure how that system is better than ours.
 
#58
#58
allvol123 said:
Also, since you are discussing US healthcare against the rest of the world. It is interesting you bring up this example of a US citizen going to Thailand and paying $10,000 for a procedure that would cost him $90,000 in America. Tell me, how much money do you think the average Thai makes? Maybe $300 month? So this $10,000 procedure is basically going to cost him 3 years salary. Not sure how that system is better than ours.
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For the last time, the U.S. spends 15% of GDP on health care the highest of any nation in the world while 1 in 4 aren't insured. Thailand doesn't spend nearly that much while they have universal coverage.
 
#59
#59
oklavol said:
For the last time, the U.S. spends 15% of GDP on health care the highest of any nation in the world while 1 in 4 aren't insured. Thailand doesn't spend nearly that much while they have universal coverage.
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What is the matter? Your $10,000 procedure not worth squat anymore?

I would rather be uninsured in the US than fully covered in Thailand. I am sure Thailand has fantastic universal coverage.

How is it the healthcare industry's fault that 1 in 4 are not covered and how does that make our health care so bad?
 
#60
#60
oklavol said:
For the last time, the U.S. spends 15% of GDP on health care the highest of any nation in the world while 1 in 4 aren't insured. Thailand doesn't spend nearly that much while they have universal coverage.
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since you ignored my post earlier, I'll say it again, there are many people who are "uninsured" because they chose to be uninsured. Whether it's for religious reasons, they're independently wealthy, or they have chosen not to have insurance for other reasons. There is NO ONE in this country that is refused medical care. Lack of insurance is not a lack of access to medicine.
 
#61
#61
MG1968 said:
since you ignored my post earlier, I'll say it again, there are many people who are "uninsured" because they chose to be uninsured. Whether it's for religious reasons, they're independently wealthy, or they have chosen not to have insurance for other reasons. There is NO ONE in this country that is refused medical care. Lack of insurance is not a lack of access to medicine.
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It wasn't too difficult for Michael Moore to find people who were.
 
#63
#63
oklavol said:
It wasn't too difficult for Michael Moore to find people who were.
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fine example. Michael Moore also portrayed Flint, MI as a barren industrial wasteland filled with decaying factories and polluted air and soil.

If you're going to hold him as an example of the point you're trying to make, you might as well give up your argument now.
 
#64
#64
oklavol said:
For the last time, the U.S. spends 15% of GDP on health care the highest of any nation in the world while 1 in 4 aren't insured. Thailand doesn't spend nearly that much while they have universal coverage.
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How does 40 million equate to 1 in 4 in a country of 300 million?
 
#66
#66
That makes more sense. I've heard numbers for the uninsured before, but I knew it was nothing approaching 25% of the population.
 
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