U.S. Troops pull out of Baghdad

#26
#26
joevol320 said:
oh yeah, we really made out with all that oil. we have iraqi oil everywhere. it's 2cents a gallon. yep and iraq paid us back for going in there.

ask your boy hussein when we'll attack NK. i'd say we'll attack israel for building houses on their land before we attack NK.
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I'm just saying quoting the reasons you did doesn't do a thing as justification for going to Iraq when there are other countries that are far more guilty, and on a wider scale, then Iraq.
 
#29
#29
rjd970 said:
I'm just saying quoting the reasons you did doesn't do a thing as justification for going to Iraq when there are other countries that are far more guilty, and on a wider scale, then Iraq.
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i agree with what your saying. i think you have to pick your battles. i don't think at the time NK was doing what it is doing now. i think they laid low until Bush got out of office. i think they know hussein is a much weaker president than bush was.

i do think this, if hussein was still in power, he would talked with iran to get nuke technology. i think they would have put aside the past to focus on defeating their common enemies.
 
#30
#30
The Dude said:
Hopefully whoever rises above all and becomes their leader is easier to deal with than Hussein.
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And creates a precedent for a democratic middle eastern state.

Iran tried, but failed. But, with a strong Iraqi voice next-door, Iran could probably pull off their attempt at a democracy.
 
#31
#31
joevol320 said:
i agree with what your saying. i think you have to pick your battles. i don't think at the time NK was doing what it is doing now. i think they laid low until Bush got out of office. i think they know hussein is a much weaker president than bush was.

i do think this, if hussein was still in power, he would talked with iran to get nuke technology. i think they would have put aside the past to focus on defeating their common enemies.
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The first bolded statement is dead wrong. Period.

The second one is laughable.

As for the rest of your post, NK detonated a nuclear device and tested missile technology that could smell Alaska and Hawaii during Bush's watch...All of which is far more than Saddam could ever dream of doing. I think when you look at the whole picture...WMD's, disregarding UN sanctions, human rights violations, violent dictatorships, etc...the Bush administration's stated policy that Iraq warrented invasion is disingenous when one looks at NK or Iran.
 
#32
#32
rjd970 said:
The first bolded statement is dead wrong. Period.

The second one is laughable.

As for the rest of your post, NK detonated a nuclear device and tested missile technology that could smell Alaska and Hawaii during Bush's watch...All of which is far more than Saddam could ever dream of doing. I think when you look at the whole picture...WMD's, disregarding UN sanctions, human rights violations, violent dictatorships, etc...the Bush administration's stated policy that Iraq warrented invasion is disingenous when one looks at NK or Iran.
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i do believe that iran and iraq would have eventually worked together to get better nuke and missle technology

i do understand what your saying about looking disengenous, but we were already committed in 2 wars. i think Bush knew that NK leaders are crazy beyond belief and it would have been the type of bloody war we haven't seen in years. i guess Bush thought he had NK pretty much contained.
 
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#33
#33
joevol320 said:
i do believe that iran and iraq would have eventually worked together to get better nuke and missle technology?

i do understand what your saying about looking disengenous, but we were already committed in 2 wars. i think Bush knew that NK leaders are crazy beyond belief and it would have been the type of bloody war we haven't seen in years. i guess Bush thought he had NK pretty much contained.
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Well, do you?
 
#35
#35
joevol320 said:
i do believe that iran and iraq would have eventually worked together to get better nuke and missle technology?
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You do realize Iran and Iraq fought an extremely brutal and bloody war that lasted 8 years, of which Saddam used chemical weapons on the Iranians? What makes you think Iran would even entertain the thought of sharing nuclear technology with him? Not to mention, Saddam was Sunni and brutally suppressed the Shiite muslims of Iraq, and Iran is a predominately Shiite nation. They were enemies in every sense...politically, socially, economically, and religious.

Yes, it is laughable to state Iran would share nuclear technology with them.

joevol320 said:
i do understand what your saying about looking disengenous, but we were already committed in 2 wars. i think Bush knew that NK leaders are crazy beyond belief and it would have been the type of bloody war we haven't seen in years. i guess Bush thought he had NK pretty much contained.
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The Bush administration had Iraq on its agenda since day 1 of his presidency, before 911 and everything else. NK has always been the greater threat, in every sense. And I completely disagree with the bloody war business you state. By all accounts, Iraq was going to be the long protracted war, and it's the chief reasons we never finished the job in Desert Shield (and the UN authorization from the beginning). The reunification of Korea would have been more along the lines of what happened in Germany after WWII where basically the same population and culture are brought back together, having only been separated by political ideologies over the last 60 years. Iraq has been in some state of continual tribal and ethnic conflict since the 7th century.

Try again.
 
#36
#36
rjd970 said:
You do realize Iran and Iraq fought an extremely brutal and bloody war that lasted 8 years, of which Saddam used chemical weapons on the Iranians? What makes you think Iran would even entertain the thought of sharing nuclear technology with him? Not to mention, Saddam was Sunni and brutally suppressed the Shiite muslims of Iraq, and Iran is a predominately Shiite nation. They were enemies in every sense...politically, socially, economically, and religious.

Yes, it is laughable to state Iran would share nuclear technology with them.



The Bush administration had Iraq on its agenda since day 1 of his presidency, before 911 and everything else. NK has always been the greater threat, in every sense. And I completely disagree with the bloody war business you state. By all accounts, Iraq was going to be the long protracted war, and it's the reason we never finished the job in Desert Shield. The reunification of Korea would have been more along the lines of what happened in Germany after WWII where basically the same population and culture are brought back together, having only been separated by political ideologies over the last 60 years. Iraq has been in some state of continual tribal and ethnic conflict since the 7th century.

Try again.
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so you think that Bush would have gone to work without 9/11? i'm sure you do, for all that oil.
 
#37
#37
joevol320 said:
so you think that Bush would have gone to work without 9/11? i'm sure you do, for all that oil.
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Yes I do think Bush would have found some excuse to go to war with Iraq, regardless if 911 happened. I know this because all you have to do is honestly ask yourself what Iraq had to do with 911.

I don't care about the oil. If you ask me, Saddam was a wildcard in the region, was more secular than religious, and wasn't trusted by the other theocracies and leaders in the region (read Saudi Arabia).
 
#38
#38
rjd970 said:
You do realize Iran and Iraq fought an extremely brutal and bloody war that lasted 8 years, of which Saddam used chemical weapons on the Iranians? What makes you think Iran would even entertain the thought of sharing nuclear technology with him? Not to mention, Saddam was Sunni and brutally suppressed the Shiite muslims of Iraq, and Iran is a predominately Shiite nation. They were enemies in every sense...politically, socially, economically, and religious.

Yes, it is laughable to state Iran would share nuclear technology with them.



The Bush administration had Iraq on its agenda since day 1 of his presidency, before 911 and everything else. NK has always been the greater threat, in every sense. And I completely disagree with the bloody war business you state. By all accounts, Iraq was going to be the long protracted war, and it's the chief reasons we never finished the job in Desert Shield (and the UN authorization from the beginning). The reunification of Korea would have been more along the lines of what happened in Germany after WWII where basically the same population and culture are brought back together, having only been separated by political ideologies over the last 60 years. Iraq has been in some state of continual tribal and ethnic conflict since the 7th century.

Try again.
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The stated reason for not finishing the job the first time was that the UN mandate only called for the expulsion of Iraqi troops from Kuwait. It did not give the authority to depose Sadaam. I think they also believed that the Shiite and Kurdish people would take advantage of his weakened military, they were sorely mistaken, even though he was crippled Sadaam's years of intimidation paralyzed any attempt to remove him. We also warned Iran of any interference.
 
#39
#39
We didn't finish the job because Bush I was afraid the world would see the blood bath we handed the Iraqi army and turn against us being there.
 
#40
#40
KB5252 said:
The stated reason for not finishing the job the first time was that the UN mandate only called for the expulsion of Iraqi troops from Kuwait. It did not give the authority to depose Sadaam. I think they also believed that the Shiite and Kurdish people would take advantage of his weakened military, they were sorely mistaken, even though he was crippled Sadaam's years of intimidation paralyzed any attempt to remove him. We also warned Iran of any interference.
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I should have said "one of the chief reasons". Every military commander and even Bush Sr. knew the dangers of an occupation with Iraq. IMO, the UN mandate was a nice reason to say to Saudi Arabia, Iranians, and others in the region that would have loved to see Saddam finished.
 
#41
#41
rjd970 said:
Yes I do think Bush would have found some excuse to go to war with Iraq, regardless if 911 happened. I know this because all you have to do is honestly ask yourself what Iraq had to do with 911.

I don't care about the oil. If you ask me, Saddam was a wildcard in the region, was more secular than religious, and wasn't trusted by the other theocracies and leaders in the region (read Saudi Arabia).
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He was a wildcard. He was also very good at manipulating religion for his purpose. I do not know if Bush would have invaded iraq if 9-11 never happened. I honestly believe Bush wanted to put a democratic government in place in the middle east to counter the spread of fundamental Islam. I think he saw in Saadam a very weak dictator and the groundwork (UN sanctions of which he was in violation) for his removal already laid out.
 
#42
#42
rjd970 said:
Yes I do think Bush would have found some excuse to go to war with Iraq, regardless if 911 happened. I know this because all you have to do is honestly ask yourself what Iraq had to do with 911.

I don't care about the oil. If you ask me, Saddam was a wildcard in the region, was more secular than religious, and wasn't trusted by the other theocracies and leaders in the region (read Saudi Arabia).
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to me a crazed iraqi leader is much more dangerous than a crazed NK. when it comes to America's interest.
 
#44
#44
OrangeEmpire said:
We didn't finish the job because Bush I was afraid the world would see the blood bath we handed the Iraqi army and turn against us being there.
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I forget the name of the highway, but the massacre of retreating republican guard and the images broadcast around the world played a significant role IMO.
 
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