UGA. The Beginning of the End

#1
the.one.the.only

the.one.the.only

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#1
Welcome to AJC! | ajc.com

The AJC is blowing up right now about UGA's under-achieving season. They feel like it's the beginning of the end for their football team. One guy even compared Tech beating UGA this weekend to Jim Tressell's first season at OSU when they beat a far superior Mich team. Can't say I don't agree with him... Seems a bit like we went through post 2001.

Just a little perspective for you guys.
 
#2
#2
When did Tubberville win a national championship (see #9?)

Georgia will be fine. They lost to the current #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country before forgetting how to tackle against their instate rival. They are 11 months removed from a BCS win in their 3rd appearance in Richt's 7 years. After failing to appear in a current BCS bowl in the 18 seasons preceding him, if they really think it is underachieving to go to the Sugar Bowl every other season under Richt with New Year's Day appearances in between, let them fire him. He wouldn't have any trouble finding a job, and I'd like to see him out of the conference.
 
#3
#3
Well - I just don't see UGA ever winning a national title under Richt - and I'm sure that's their ultimate goal. But its kinda hard to justify firing a guy with his kind of run this decade... its actually impossible... Fulmers run was a decade ago.. this guy is in the middle of his..

As long as he keeps winning SEC titles but not making it over the hump they're just stuck in a bad place. (although its not as bad as it sounds - they are winning SEC titles atleast..) I think they'll continue to be good and continue to win an SEC title every 3 or 4 years under Richt - but he won't take them to the next level.
 
#4
#4
Looks like Georgia is stuck in just good enough to keep the coach around and not good enough to keep the fans happy hell. Hmm, sounds familiar.
 
#7
#7
cotton said:
When did Tubberville win a national championship (see #9?)

Georgia will be fine. They lost to the current #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country before forgetting how to tackle against their instate rival. They are 11 months removed from a BCS win in their 3rd appearance in Richt's 7 years. After failing to appear in a current BCS bowl in the 18 seasons preceding him, if they really think it is underachieving to go to the Sugar Bowl every other season under Richt with New Year's Day appearances in between, let them fire him. He wouldn't have any trouble finding a job, and I'd like to see him out of the conference.
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Any other year, I'd say you were correct. But now that Paul Johnson is at Tech, Richt is going to have a much harder time locking up all the instate recruits in GA. When Chan Gailey was at Tech, Richt had the advantage. He could get whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted (in GA). High school seniors wanted to go there. Now that PJ has made GT competitive again, it's going to be a completely different story. Advantage, PJ. Not to mention the fact that PJ beat UGA in his FIRST year with none of his own players. Add that to the fact that most UGA fans are furious over Willie Martinez and Richt's unwillingness to fire him, and you have a situation much like the one we just went through. If Stafford enters the draft this year, 2009 could light the fire under Mark Richt's seat.
 
#9
#9
the.one.the.only said:
Any other year, I'd say you were correct. But now that Paul Johnson is at Tech, Richt is going to have a much harder time locking up all the instate recruits in GA. When Chan Gailey was at Tech, Richt had the advantage. He could get whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted (in GA). High school seniors wanted to go there. Now that PJ has made GT competitive again, it's going to be a completely different story. Advantage, PJ. Not to mention the fact that PJ beat UGA in his FIRST year with none of his own players. Add that to the fact that most UGA fans are furious over Willie Martinez and Richt's unwillingness to fire him, and you have a situation much like the one we just went through. If Stafford enters the draft this year, 2009 could light the fire under Mark Richt's seat.
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I am not as convinced that one win means quite as much as you are. A better Tech would certainly make for a tougher neighborhood for Richt, but please keep in mind that he has met or bettered Tech's 9 win season in every year he has been at Georgia except his first (when he was 8-4.)

Bassmanbruno said:
Well - I just don't see UGA ever winning a national title under Richt - and I'm sure that's their ultimate goal. But its kinda hard to justify firing a guy with his kind of run this decade... its actually impossible... Fulmers run was a decade ago.. this guy is in the middle of his..

As long as he keeps winning SEC titles but not making it over the hump they're just stuck in a bad place. (although its not as bad as it sounds - they are winning SEC titles atleast..) I think they'll continue to be good and continue to win an SEC title every 3 or 4 years under Richt - but he won't take them to the next level.
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What is the next level? He has finished in the top 10 five times and the top 3 twice; he has won double digit games in 5 of his first 7 years (a bowl win this year would give him 6 of 8;) he has an SECC ring for each hand and two Sugar Bowl wins. The fact that Les Miles, Urban Meyer, and Nick Saban have national titles but he doesn't is an accident of timing, not some failure to put top notch teams on the field, as his 2002 team had a resume as good as any of those teams that did "get over the hump."
 
#10
#10
It has to suck being a UGA fan. They were certain that UGA would be team getting all the love/attention right now. Instead, they get blown out by the 2 legit SEC teams, and then lose to GT. Now, it appears both Stafford and Moreno are NFL bound, and UT just got a new young coach.

In 5 years they will be kicking themselves b/c things will be the same. Definitely resembles UT from 2001-2006.
 
#11
#11
the.one.the.only said:
Any other year, I'd say you were correct. But now that Paul Johnson is at Tech, Richt is going to have a much harder time locking up all the instate recruits in GA. When Chan Gailey was at Tech, Richt had the advantage. He could get whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted (in GA). High school seniors wanted to go there. Now that PJ has made GT competitive again, it's going to be a completely different story. Advantage, PJ. Not to mention the fact that PJ beat UGA in his FIRST year with none of his own players. Add that to the fact that most UGA fans are furious over Willie Martinez and Richt's unwillingness to fire him, and you have a situation much like the one we just went through. If Stafford enters the draft this year, 2009 could light the fire under Mark Richt's seat.
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I don't think UGA fans are on Richt's butt right now because of this season, it's because they all can see what may happen next year....Stafford and Moreno gone...Martinez still allowing teams to gash through their talented D...Joe Cox and the frosh battling for QB playing time, having to go on the road to TN and Bama...they see 7-5 wins wrote all over next year and that's what scares them...this year was their year and they didn't deliver.
:lolabove:
 
#12
#12
cotton said:
I am not as convinced that one win means quite as much as you are. A better Tech would certainly make for a tougher neighborhood for Richt, but please keep in mind that he has met or bettered Tech's 9 win season in every year he has been at Georgia except his first (when he was 8-4.)
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Ok, but Chan Gailey was the coach then. He was ok with mediocre. Not PJ. Apples to oranges mate. UGA is going down a slippery slope right about now.
 
#13
#13
the.one.the.only said:
Ok, but Chan Gailey was the coach then. He was ok with mediocre. Not PJ. Apples to oranges mate. UGA is going down a slippery slope right about now.
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No, I am talking about Johnson's current 9 win season. I am going to have to see more than one season out of Tech that is equal to Richt's worst seasons at UGa before declaring the balance of power in that state has shifted.
 
#14
#14
the.one.the.only said:
Any other year, I'd say you were correct. But now that Paul Johnson is at Tech, Richt is going to have a much harder time locking up all the instate recruits in GA. When Chan Gailey was at Tech, Richt had the advantage. He could get whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted (in GA). High school seniors wanted to go there. Now that PJ has made GT competitive again, it's going to be a completely different story.
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Maybe for defensive players, but I doubt very many elite offensive guys will choose to go play in an option offense.
 
#15
#15
cotton said:
I am not as convinced that one win means quite as much as you are. A better Tech would certainly make for a tougher neighborhood for Richt, but please keep in mind that he has met or bettered Tech's 9 win season in every year he has been at Georgia except his first (when he was 8-4.)



What is the next level? He has finished in the top 10 five times and the top 3 twice; he has won double digit games in 5 of his first 7 years (a bowl win this year would give him 6 of 8;) he has an SECC ring for each hand and two Sugar Bowl wins. The fact that Les Miles, Urban Meyer, and Nick Saban have national titles but he doesn't is an accident of timing, not some failure to put top notch teams on the field, as his 2002 team had a resume as good as any of those teams that did "get over the hump."
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Georgia fans are tired of being national championship contenders except never making it to the NC... like I said... you can't fire him for what he's done because he's been excellent... but the fact is they will never win a national title under Richt. He's not at the next level.
 
#16
#16
Bassmanbruno said:
Georgia fans are tired of being national championship contenders except never making it to the NC... like I said... you can't fire him for what he's done because he's been excellent... but the fact is they will never win a national title under Richt. He's not at the next level.
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Again, I'll disagree. He has fielded a team that was at the same level as Meyer, Saban, and even Spurrier did when they won their national titles, and one that was arguably above Miles' NC team. The chips fell in the right places for those 1 loss teams; they did not for Georgia.

There isn't a level above going 13-1, 11-3, 10-2, 10-3, 9-4, and 11-2 in your most recent 6 completed seasons in the SEC. They may never win a National Title under Richt, but history shows they will contend. Whether they get one or not will be as much a matter of fortune as of coaching. In a sport where the champion is crowned in a method resembling that of beauty pagents, that is really all you can expect a coach to do.
 
#17
#17
That's too bad for him. The next level is a national championship. Right now - he's just a 10 win a season guy that will never make the fans happy as long as they keep choking 2-3 games a year.
 
#18
#18
The problem is that "the next level" is not something that a coach has that much control over. This is one of the problems with the current setup -- the BCS has put everyone's focus on getting into and winning the BCS title game, when there are too many variables involved in for it to be a fair evaluation of a coach. Urban Meyer has a championship because USC lost to UCLA. Les Miles has a championship because West Virginia choked against Pittsburgh. Etc.

In eight years, Richt has played in the SEC championship game three times, won twice, and secured an at-large bid to a BCS bowl in another year. That's a pretty damn good record. UGA would be crazy to dump him. If Phil Fulmer, Larry Coker, and Les Miles are good enough coaches to win a championship, Mark Richt is too.
 
#19
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cotton said:
No, I am talking about Johnson's current 9 win season. I am going to have to see more than one season out of Tech that is equal to Richt's worst seasons at UGa before declaring the balance of power in that state has shifted.
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I know what you were talking about. But the fact is, Johnson beat Richt in his first season with none of his actual recruited players. Like I said, UGA better tread lightly these next couple years, because they're walking on thin ice right now. If Stafford leaves it will be even worse.
 
#20
#20
the.one.the.only said:
I know what you were talking about. But the fact is, Johnson beat Richt in his first season with none of his actual recruited players. Like I said, UGA better tread lightly these next couple years, because they're walking on thin ice right now. If Stafford leaves it will be even worse.
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I agree with all that... but you just need to go undefeated at this point and he hasn't done that either. He's only had 1 season that he probably could've made it in the NC at this point but things didn't break their way.. and didn't get lucky like Meyer and Miles.

The other years - not so much. And Meyer is here now... and Saban has resurrected Bama... he's not going to see the same success he saw early this decade.
 
#21
#21
Bassmanbruno said:
I agree with all that... but you just need to go undefeated at this point and he hasn't done that either. He's only had 1 season that he probably could've made it in the NC at this point but things didn't break their way.. and didn't get lucky like Meyer and Miles.

The other years - not so much. And Meyer is here now... and Saban has resurrected Bama... he's not going to see the same success he saw early this decade.
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Haha I think you're arguing with the wrong person. I believe we're on the same side of this argument.:p
 
#23
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Bassmanbruno said:
I agree with all that... but you just need to go undefeated at this point and he hasn't done that either. He's only had 1 season that he probably could've made it in the NC at this point but things didn't break their way.. and didn't get lucky like Meyer and Miles.

The other years - not so much. And Meyer is here now... and Saban has resurrected Bama... he's not going to see the same success he saw early this decade.
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But that's just it. Going undefeated is the only way to ensure that you have control over whether you win a championship. And in a world in which Phillip Fulmer has an undefeated season and Steve Spurrier doesn't, I would submit that a coach doesn't really control going undefeated all that well either.

I'm by no means arguing that Richt is a great coach or anything. I just think that, given the current system, it's insane to have the words "national championship" come into play when you're evaluating any coach. The BCS is too much of a crapshoot.
 
#24
#24
Vercingetorix said:
But that's just it. Going undefeated is the only way to ensure that you have control over whether you win a championship. And in a world in which Phillip Fulmer has an undefeated season and Steve Spurrier doesn't, I would submit that a coach doesn't really control going undefeated all that well either.

I'm by no means arguing that Richt is a great coach or anything. I just think that, given the current system, it's insane to have the words "national championship" come into play when you're evaluating any coach. The BCS is too much of a crapshoot.
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That's why we need a playoff system. Anyone know when the BCS contract is up? I'm thinking this might be the last year in the contract.
 
#25
#25
Pretty sure the BCS bowls have tv contracts till 2018 or so. But if they took the winner of the BCS bowls and had a 4 team play off... then maybe that could get done soon... but I have no idea.
 
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