Uganda To Enact Death Penalty For Homosexuals?

#29
#29
RockyTopVol said:
I hope so. I was going back through other threads trying to figure this out.

For future reference - I use a Scofield KJV. Mine doesn't mention killing gays either.
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None of the 3 versions I have, do either. Including the NKJ which I refer to mostly.
 
#31
#31
If those trying to pass the law, call themselves "christians", they are dead wrong for their feelings on it, because it is not Biblical whatsoever.
 
#32
#32
None of the 3 versions I have, do either. Including the NKJ which I refer to mostly.
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I use a Scofield KJV. Mine doesn't mention killing gays either.
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I challenged you on your claim, that the Bible teaches killing homosexuals, which is totally false. What you posted about homosexuals not inheriting the kingdom of God is totally true according to the Bible. That is not for any person to decide.
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Nope. Wrong again guys. It looks like you may need to read your Bibles again:



"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13, KJV
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"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," 1 Corinthians 6:9, KJV
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First states homosexuals should be put to death. Second one states they won't get into heaven. Bot KJV translations. The entirety of Leviticus 20 is about punishment to be carried out by the Israelites on their own people for sins against God. The Ugandans could easily use Biblical justification for this new law if they so desired.

Anybody arguing otherwise, or claiming the Bible doesn't say this is either ignorant of the text, hasn't read the text, or is in denial about it. Mind you, these are just the two choice passages that explicitely state what you say they don't. I have plenty I could go choose from that address homosexuality without specifically stating the punishment (but it is inferred).
 
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#33
#33
rjd970 said:
Nope. Wrong again guys. It looks like you may need to read your Bibles again:







First states homosexuals should be put to death. Second one states they won't get into heaven. Bot KJV translations. The entirety of Leviticus 20 is about punishment to be carried out by the Israelites on their own people for sins against God. The Ugandans could easily use Biblical justification for this new law if they so desired.

Anybody arguing otherwise, or claiming the Bible doesn't say this is either ignorant of the text, hasn't read the text, or is in denial about it. Mind you, these are just the two choice passages that explicitely state what you say they don't. I have plenty I could go choose from that address homosexuality without specifically stating the punishment (but it is inferred).
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Im not ignorant of the text, quiet the contrary.

Lev. 20:13 did not state for christians to put homosexuals to death. The Israelites (God's Chosen people) were warned against such acts, and this was the punishment, after they refused to live by the law. ( the Old Testament Law to be exact, which is important to the conversation). They were judged by the law, and how they kept it.(Which is pre Jesus Christ) In the gospels you will see that the same Israelites had a problem with Jesus Christ (the son of God) claiming that the only way to the kingdom of heaven was through him, and not just living by the law.

As far as the people of Uganda, if they insert Ugandans for Israelites in that text, they are making a mistake. They will not be judge by the Old Testament law either. They will be jugded by their acceptance or non acceptance of Christ.
 
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#34
#34
rjd970 said:
Nope. Wrong again guys. It looks like you may need to read your Bibles again:







First states homosexuals should be put to death. Second one states they won't get into heaven. Bot KJV translations. The entirety of Leviticus 20 is about punishment to be carried out by the Israelites on their own people for sins against God. The Ugandans could easily use Biblical justification for this new law if they so desired.

Anybody arguing otherwise, or claiming the Bible doesn't say this is either ignorant of the text, hasn't read the text, or is in denial about it. Mind you, these are just the two choice passages that explicitely state what you say they don't. I have plenty I could go choose from that address homosexuality without specifically stating the punishment (but it is inferred).
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First of all, your claim to Lev. is taken out of context somewhat, because we, nor the people of Israel after a certain time were under the"old law or covenant".

See below, Jeremiah 31:31-34

31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Secondly, you mention I Corinthians 6:9. There is some great teaching in this verse, but it does not teach that we are to kill homosexuals. Merely, Paul grouped all of the ungodly into one group and stated that these individuals would not inherit the kingdom of God, because they are enemies of God and choose to be in darkness. You need to read a little further, because the following verses describe the rest of the people Paul was speaking to, and we can throw ourselves in there with them...it says:

"...and such were some of you:but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Are homosexuals deserving of death? Yep. Are you and I, though we may claim that we are Christians and followers of Christ deserving of death? Absolutely. We are no more deserving of heaven than the next person. The Bible teaches us that "the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." - Romans 6:23...."Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." - Romans 5:12

Point is this:

None of us are deserving of heaven. We are all sinners. Were it not for the grace of God, none of us would have the opportunity of going to heaven. Still have to repent and place our faith in Him, but He gives the gift. It is not something we earn.

It is not our place to kill or judge homosexuals for their way of living. We are not to accept what they are doing, either. Why not stand up against it? It's what Christ would do if He was present on this earth. He gives everyone a chance to repent. "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9
 
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#35
#35
BeecherVol said:
Im not ignorant of the text, quiet the contrary.

Lev. 20:13 did not state for christians to put homosexuals to death. The Israelites (God's Chosen people) were warned against such acts, and this was the punishment, after they refused to live by the law. ( the Old Testament Law to be exact, which is important to the conversation). They were judged by the law, and how they kept it.(Which is pre Jesus Christ) In the gospels you will see that the same Israelites had a problem with Jesus Christ (the son of God) claiming that the only way to the kingdom of heaven was through him, and not just living by the law.

As far as the people of Uganda, if they insert Ugandans for Israelites in that text, they are making a mistake. They will not be judge by the Old Testament law either. They will be jugded by their acceptance or non acceptance of Christ.
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Exactly...and nor will anyone else...the "old law" or "old covenant" was done away with...Jer. 34:31-34

Also, Paul teaches us the purpose of the Law when he wrote, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:24

The law was merely a mirror...it taught the people how to live an obedient life before Christ...it was not the grounds for salvation. Abiding by the laws of Christ is something we do out of our love for Him...it doesn't get us to heaven.

Good Post Beecher.
 
#36
#36
To-maaa-toe, Tom-a-toe...It's in the text. St. Paul had some choice things to say about it in Romans, Corinthians, and Timothy.....and regardless of NT vs OT arguments the view of "God" on this matter never changes anywhere.

Most modern day Christians use this NT law scapegoat because it more adheres to their sensibilities of living in an enlightened society. But I guarantee if homosexuals were put to death 500 years ago Christians would have no problem quoting chapter and verse in Leviticus for theological justification. Much the same way Christians today quote scripture and verse denouncing homosexuality as justification to pass judgement that somebody is committing an abomination. "Hate the sin, not the sinner" is the new PC mantra...but like most sins, it is an imaginary crime with no real root in morality. This fact has remained constant from OT times, to NT times, to today. It's discriminatory, always has been, the only difference today is it is accepted by society and protected by our laws. We as a society decided that killing homosexuals is wrong, we as a society have decided that discriminatory practices against homosexuals is wrong...because we certainly didn't get there by squinting our eyes at our holy texts more closely.

It is just as easy for the Ugandans to cite Leviticus, and find further NT justification for anti-gay laws and feel completely moral and right about what they are doing. And let's not kid ourselves, it isn't because they are misguided Christians, it is because their society isn't as morally enlightened as ours.
 
#38
#38
rjd970 said:
To-maaa-toe, Tom-a-toe...It's in the text. St. Paul had some choice things to say about it in Romans, Corinthians, and Timothy.....and regardless of NT vs OT arguments the view of "God" on this matter never changes anywhere.

Most modern day Christians use this NT law scapegoat because it more adheres to their sensibilities of living in an enlightened society. But I guarantee if homosexuals were put to death 500 years ago Christians would have no problem quoting chapter and verse in Leviticus for theological justification. Much the same way Christians today quote scripture and verse denouncing homosexuality as justification to pass judgement that somebody is committing an abomination. "Hate the sin, not the sinner" is the new PC mantra...but like most sins, it is an imaginary crime with no real root in morality. This fact has remained constant from OT times, to NT times, to today. It's discriminatory, always has been, the only difference today is it is accepted by society and protected by our laws. We as a society decided that killing homosexuals is wrong, we as a society have decided that discriminatory practices against homosexuals is wrong...because we certainly didn't get there by squinting our eyes at our holy texts more closely.

It is just as easy for the Ugandans to cite Leviticus, and find further NT justification for anti-gay laws and feel completely moral and right about what they are doing. And let's not kid ourselves, it isn't because they are misguided Christians, it is because their society isn't as morally enlightened as ours.
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Who said it was a scapegoat? I am not sensible to the feelings of a gay person whatsoever, because they are wrong in what they are doing. Being gay is not a right, being gay is a choice. You are correct, it is an abomination. But so is murder, adultery, lying, cheating, blasphemy and a whole list of other things. If we are going to kill people based on their sinful activities than we all would be dead, brother. In the book of Matthew, Christ teaches us that "whoever hates his brother is a murderer"....and "whoever looks after a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart"...this is just two of the ten commandments and if you are honest with yourself, you have broken all of them, and so have I...

This is what I am trying to get you to realize is that being gay, or committing adultery, or stealing or lying...they are all sin and sin must be punished. But if you are washed in the blood of Christ, you are forgiven. Do you not think that God can save a homosexual person (what I mean by that is, the homosexual realizes that what he or she is doing is wrong, based on what the Bible teaches and turns to God as a result)?
 
#39
#39
BigOrangeFanatic said:
Who said it was a scapegoat? I am not sensible to the feelings of a gay person whatsoever, because they are wrong in what they are doing. Being gay is not a right, being gay is a choice. You are correct, it is an abomination. But so is murder, adultery, lying, cheating, blasphemy and a whole list of other things. If we are going to kill people based on their sinful activities than we all would be dead, brother. In the book of Matthew, Christ teaches us that "whoever hates his brother is a murderer"....and "whoever looks after a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart"...this is just two of the ten commandments and if you are honest with yourself, you have broken all of them, and so have I...

This is what I am trying to get you to realize is that being gay, or committing adultery, or stealing or lying...they are all sin and sin must be punished. But if you are washed in the blood of Christ, you are forgiven. Do you not think that God can save a homosexual person (what I mean by that is, the homosexual realizes that what he or she is doing is wrong, based on what the Bible teaches and turns to God as a result)?
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Thanks for validating my point on passing judgement based on scripture.

And placing homosexuality in the same sentence as murder, theft, and lying tells me all I need to know about your warped sense of morality.
 
#40
#40
rjd970 said:
Thanks for validating my point on passing judgement based on scripture.

And placing homosexuality in the same sentence as murder, theft, and lying tells me all I need to know about your warped sense of morality.
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Where did our society get the idea that, lying, stealing, and murder.... is wrong?
 
#41
#41
BeecherVol said:
Where did our society get the idea that, lying, stealing, and murder.... is wrong?
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Common sense. I highly doubt the Israelites thought said actions were moral before they got to Mt. Sinai...if the whole charade even happened in the first place.
 
#42
#42
rjd970 said:
Thanks for validating my point on passing judgement based on scripture.

And placing homosexuality in the same sentence as murder, theft, and lying tells me all I need to know about your warped sense of morality.
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You are very shallow minded in the Scriptures, my friend. I am not trying to insult you, but you, like countless others take the Scriptures out of context. You need to study the exegesis (what was originally intended by the author and the culture setting that surrounded that time) of the Scriptures, then the hermeneutics (interpreting the passage in the here and now...things are not like they were in the OT and NT times) of the passage.

In no way did anything I state validate anything you have said thus far. Murder is murder. God is the judge and if homosexuals do not turn from their homosexual acts and place their trust and faith in God, then yes "they will not inherit the kingdom of God" But neither will the person who live a good life their whole life and never accepted Christ. We are not to hate and kill homosexuals for their actions. We are to be a shining light unto them so that they may see the Love of the Father in us. (John 13:34-35)
 
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#43
#43
rjd970 said:
Common sense. I highly doubt the Israelites thought said actions were moral before they got to Mt. Sinai...if the whole charade even happened in the first place.
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oh...so your not even sure if the events of Mt. Sinai occurred?
 
#44
#44
BigOrangeFanatic said:
You are very shallow minded in the Scriptures, my friend. I am not trying to insult you, but you, like countless others take the Scriptures out of context. You need to study the exegesis (what was originally intended by the author and the culture setting that surrounded that time) of the Scriptures, then the hermeneutics (interpreting the passage in the here and now...things are not like they were in the OT and NT times) of the passage.

In no way did anything I state validate anything you have said thus far. Murder is murder. God is the judge and if homosexuals do not turn from their homosexual acts and place their trust and faith in God, then yes "they will not inherit the kingdom of God" But neither will the person who live a good life their whole life and never accepted Christ. We are not to hate and kill homosexuals for their actions. We are to be a shining light unto them so that they may see the Love of the Father in us. (John 13:34-35)
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Only the religious make such arguments while in the same breath claim God is omnipotent, outside of time, and clear in what he wants.

Your second paragraph is only further validation. You can't give me one argument against the morality of homosexuality that isn't scripture or theologically based.
 
#46
#46
rjd970 said:
Only the religious make such arguments while in the same breath claim God is omnipotent, outside of time, and clear in what he wants.

Your second paragraph is only further validation. You can't give me one argument against the morality of homosexuality that isn't scripture or theologically based.
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Did I ever say homosexuality was morally right?
 
#47
#47
rjd970 said:
Common sense. I highly doubt the Israelites thought said actions were moral before they got to Mt. Sinai...if the whole charade even happened in the first place.
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Not sure I would give common sense, that much credit.

You seem to have a level of knowledge about the Bible, if you don't mind me asking, where did this come from?
 
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