UNC "Tarheels" name now Racist

[ButchPlz]

Hopefully, your making a baseless, sweeping generalization is not an accurate reflection of your level of education.

Only an idiot walks into a conversation assuming they know more than the other person, therefore my point is proven yet again.

Whether the evidence I have is relevant or not would be a discussion. Calling it baseless out of the gate, with no knowledge of what I am basing it on, is idiocy.

Thank you for continuing to prove what we all assumed.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Thread just went full blown gangsta ^^^

 

[n_huffhines]

Only an idiot walks into a conversation assuming they know more than the other person, therefore my point is proven yet again.

Whether the evidence I have is relevant or not would be a discussion. Calling it baseless out of the gate, with no knowledge of what I am basing it on, is idiocy.

Thank you for continuing to prove what we all assumed.

OK, what is the basis for your completely subjective judgment of "woke" people?

You think I don't know enough to know you have nothing substantial to back up your claim? LOL

 

[ButchPlz]

OK, what is the basis for your completely subjective judgment of "woke" people?

You think I don't know enough to know you have nothing substantial to back up your claim? LOL

Life experience, including work in economic development with a touch in higher education, as well as a tiny bit of research.

Let's first walk back. I don't think attending college for x years is equivalent to 'education', because most college majors are absolutely useless. The entire college and university system is due for a major rework, which I believe is coming.

We have to set definitions: my definition of educated is not 'years in school'. Over-schooled is not 'educated'. Many majors in modern schools do not produce educated people. (You didn't even bother to ask anything to set the stage and define the discussion, a sure sign of an arrogant fool.)

Additional info that shapes what I think: If we actually look at things like the 'educations' of leaders from, say, BLM, I can start making a point. Anthropology? Sociology? Philosophy? Advocacy? Those are all soft sciences at absolute best. I don't consider them valuable education, and I definitely don't consider people in those majors 'educated'. They're largely valueless trash, which is demonstrated by the salaries of those who come out of schools in those majors compared to people in business and STEM fields. I consider also that research confirms that professors lean left and acknowledge that a 2014 study showed that conservative students avoid humanities (I actually did need to pull these down, but my experience assumptions were confirmed) which I think is a reflection of faculty- I make the assumption that humanities teachers lean left, providing their students with a slanted (again, at best) 'education'. Then I blend that knowledge with the knowledge of the degrees of people in movements like BLM. Which leads right back around to my point, "Anyone that claims to be 'woke' is likely highly uneducated, no matter what degree they have. Just look at the things they major in if they do decide to go to college on the taxpayer dime."

 

[UTwild82]

At this point, I get the feeling that these individuals want to change every team's nickname to the "(Insert city or state) Stunning and Brave Persons". Good Lord...some folks have made a lucrative lifestyle out of being perpetually offended.

The Atlanta Stunning and Braves. It has a ring to it.

 

[n_huffhines]

Life experience, including work in economic development with a touch in higher education, as well as a tiny bit of research.

Let's first walk back. I don't think attending college for x years is equivalent to 'education', because most college majors are absolutely useless. The entire college and university system is due for a major rework, which I believe is coming.

We have to set definitions: my definition of educated is not 'years in school'. Over-schooled is not 'educated'. Many majors in modern schools do not produce educated people. (You didn't even bother to ask anything to set the stage and define the discussion, a sure sign of an arrogant fool.)

Additional info that shapes what I think: If we actually look at things like the 'educations' of leaders from, say, BLM, I can start making a point. Anthropology? Sociology? Philosophy? Advocacy? Those are all soft sciences at absolute best. I don't consider them valuable education, and I definitely don't consider people in those majors 'educated'. They're largely valueless trash, which is demonstrated by the salaries of those who come out of schools in those majors compared to people in business and STEM fields. I consider also that research confirms that professors lean left and acknowledge that a 2014 study showed that conservative students avoid humanities (I actually did need to pull these down, but my experience assumptions were confirmed) which I think is a reflection of faculty- I make the assumption that humanities teachers lean left, providing their students with a slanted (again, at best) 'education'. Then I blend that knowledge with the knowledge of the degrees of people in movements like BLM. Which leads right back around to my point, "Anyone that claims to be 'woke' is likely highly uneducated, no matter what degree they have. Just look at the things they major in if they do decide to go to college on the taxpayer dime."

Saying you are an authority doesn't cut it, man.

 

[05_never_again]

Hopefully your making a baseless, sweeping generalization is not an accurate reflection of your level of education. The divide doesn't just exist because you know stuff they don't know. They know stuff you don't know, too. It's why you have different perspectives.

The "wokes" are actually extremely highly educated, in my experience. Mostly in stupid, useless degrees, but they did go to school for a long time and are well-read.

 

[508mikey]

Saying you are an authority doesn't cut it, man.

kind of like a politician

 

[n_huffhines]

The "wokes" are actually extremely highly educated, in my experience. Mostly in stupid, useless degrees, but they did go to school for a long time and are well-read.

If we are talking about certified education, you might be right. Idk. Regarding any kind of education....nobody has a reliable answer to this question. At best, I'd bet there is maybe a survey study coupled with an aptitude test. but probably not even that.

 

[05_never_again]

If we are talking about certified education, you might be right. Idk. Regarding any kind of education....nobody has a reliable answer to this question. At best, I'd bet there is maybe a survey study coupled with an aptitude test. but probably not even that.

The center of that kind of thinking is college campuses - particularly private liberal arts colleges in the northeast. And it's actually a fairly recent phenomenon. The "safe space" and "microaggression" stuff started in 2014 and 2015.

 

[ButchPlz]

Saying you are an authority doesn't cut it, man.

I never said I was an authority. I interpreted that you were asking where my opinion came from, so I provided it along with some background.

You claimed what I said was 'baseless'. It has a base. Whether you agree with its base or not wasn't the question, as I responded to your accusation. Now you've subsequently failed to address any of the rest of the post after dropping in with a steaming cold take on my 'baseless' claim. Shameful.

 

[ButchPlz]

The center of that kind of thinking is college campuses - particularly private liberal arts colleges in the northeast. And it's actually a fairly recent phenomenon. The "safe space" and "microaggression" stuff started in 2014 and 2015.

Nope. The TV show Community (started in 2009) had Britta, the embodiment of PC/woke culture. I remember hearing 'microaggression' for the first time in my orientation at UT in 2008, and definitely remember hearing 'woke' talking points in high school in the mid-2000s. There's a film from 1994 called PCU (that I admittedly have not seen) that satirizes politically correct college campuses. These are what I can think of off the top of my head.

Comedy does not equal reality, but it generally exists as a commentary on what's going on in reality, and that puts this stuff as far back as the early 1990s. I'd guess it goes back further, even if not under the same exact vocab.

 

[05_never_again]

Nope. The TV show Community (started in 2009) had Britta, the embodiment of PC/woke culture. I remember hearing 'microaggression' for the first time in my orientation at UT in 2008, and definitely remember hearing 'woke' talking points in high school in the mid-2000s. There's a film from 1994 called PCU (that I admittedly have not seen) that satirizes politically correct college campuses. These are what I can think of off the top of my head.

Comedy does not equal reality, but it generally exists as a commentary on what's going on in reality, and that puts this stuff as far back as the early 1990s. I'd guess it goes back further, even if not under the same exact vocab.

It reached a level where colleges started basing policies and rules around those concepts in the mid 2010s. The concepts have been around for much longer - "microaggression" actually goes back into the 90s, but it is actually a very sudden and recent development that colleges actually started enforcing rules around it. Jonathan Haidt has done a bunch of good work and research on this subject.

 

[ButchPlz]

It reached a level where colleges started basing policies and rules around those concepts in the mid 2010s. The concepts have been around for much longer - "microaggression" actually goes back into the 90s, but it is actually a very sudden and recent development that colleges actually started enforcing rules around it. Jonathan Haidt has done a bunch of good work and research on this subject.

I guess that depends on what you consider that 'rules' point to be. I see the racial/microaggression/whatever stuff as a continuation of, say, the extreme Title IX sexual assault 'tribunals' we've seen now for a lot longer. Maybe my perception is different, but I see the current racial things as directly interrelated with those types of policies.

My experience at UT definitely had a lot of the PC culture involved, though you're right, it may not have been there under 'official rules'. And maybe it's because I was on that leading edge before the Missouri crap-swastika breaking point that I see a longer trail instead of just a sudden pivot to all of this stuff.

 

[05_never_again]

I guess that depends on what you consider the 'rules' point to be. I see the racial/microaggression/whatever stuff as a continuation of, say, the extreme Title IX sexual assault 'tribunals' we've seen now for a lot longer. Maybe my perception is just different but I see the current racial things as directly interrelated with those types of policies.

My experience at UT definitely had a lot of the PC culture involved, and maybe it's because I was on that leading edge before the Missouri crap-swastika breaking point that I see a longer trail instead of just a sudden pivot.

"PC culture" has been around for a long time, yes. Been satirized and criticized at least as long as I've been alive. However, I don't think it truly got teeth in a practical way, at least on college campuses, until the last 5 years or so. It permeates and is a part of everything on campus, not just Title IX "tribunals" for example. There are literal "safe spaces" on most college campuses now where certain people (e.g., white males) are explicitly not allowed, and you can be hauled before committees for "microaggressions," as the school defines them.

The concepts of those things have been around for a while, but they were kind of theoretical until relatively recently. The current racial tension, statues being torn down, etc. is directly related to this type of culture, I agree.

 

[dobre_shunka]

The "wokes" are actually extremely highly educated, in my experience. Mostly in stupid, useless degrees, but they did go to school for a long time and are well-read.

I think his point is "educated" and having a college degree are not synonymous. But I'm just an engineer so I'm not really educated in those word type things.

 

[05_never_again]

I think his point is "educated" and having a college degree are not synonymous. But I'm just an engineer so I'm not really educated in those word type things.

These people, by and large, are highly-educated in crap. "Educated" or "highly educated" is not always a compliment or a good thing, at least as I use the term.

Anybody that receives advanced degrees in anything, even stupid subjects, is highly educated. They still might be highly unintelligent, but they're highly educated. You could also be highly educated outside of an academic environment, but that typically doesn't seem to be how the term is used or understood.

 

[ButchPlz]

I think his point is "educated" and having a college degree are not synonymous. But I'm just an engineer so I'm not really educated in those word type things.

That is exactly my point.

Who is more educated- my grandfather, who went to school in ag sciences and ran a successful farm (and raised a family of 6) or, for example, Pierce from Community (again) that was in school for 12 years?

 

[ButchPlz]

These people, by and large, are highly-educated in crap. "Educated" or "highly educated" is not always a compliment or a good thing, at least as I use the term.

Anybody that receives advanced degrees in anything, even stupid subjects, is highly educated. They still might be highly unintelligent, but they're highly educated. You could also be highly educated outside of an academic environment, but that typically doesn't seem to be how the term is used or understood.

That's my argument. I think the term "educated" is abused and misused.

 

[05_never_again]

That is exactly my point.

Who is more educated- my grandfather, who went to school in ag sciences and ran a successful farm (and raised a family of 6) or, for example, Pierce from Community (again) that was in school for 12 years?

Pierce from Community. But who cares? Your grandfather was probably 1000x more intelligent, wise, and grounded than Pierce. Pierce has a sheet of paper saying that the trustees of some school conferred and gave him the piece of paper. So what? Your grandfather actually did something.

 

[ButchPlz]

Pierce from Community. But who cares? Your grandfather was probably 1000x more intelligent, wise, and grounded than Pierce. Pierce has a sheet of paper saying that the trustees of some school conferred and gave him the piece of paper. So what? Your grandfather actually did something.

I guess then we'll agree overall, but disagree on what 'educated' should mean.

I tend to see educated used as an equivalent to 'intelligent', which is my entire problem. If it's going to be matched like that by the public at large, I think I've got a lot of grounds to say even people with a lot of schooling are 'uneducated'. Maybe I should just stick to 'unintelligent'.

 

[VolGee4]

North Carolina was a slave state, don't we need to change it the state name?

Not going to judge the name change of the Redskins. But the ironic thing was that several years back, a Congressman from Oklahoma was pushing the NFL to change the name. I believe he was a member of a Native American tribe. Yet, he hails from a state (Oklahoma) whose name literally translates as "red people."

 

[ButchPlz]

Not going to judge the name change of the Redskins. But the ironic thing was that several years back, a Congressman from Oklahoma was pushing the NFL to change the name. I believe he was a member of a Native American tribe. Yet, he hails from a state (Oklahoma) whose name literally translates as "red people."

Frankly they should keep the 'Redskins' moniker and adopt some kind of communist logo instead of the Indian guy.

Which is another point of confusion for me, because out on the Blackfeet reservation when I was there they all called themselves 'Indians' and didn't want to be called 'Native Americans'. I just can't keep up.

 

[n_huffhines]

The center of that kind of thinking is college campuses - particularly private liberal arts colleges in the northeast. And it's actually a fairly recent phenomenon. The "safe space" and "microaggression" stuff started in 2014 and 2015.

Yeah, but it's not confined to those spaces. There is probably a woke guy flipping burgers down my street

 

[n_huffhines]

I never said I was an authority. I interpreted that you were asking where my opinion came from, so I provided it along with some background.

You claimed what I said was 'baseless'. It has a base. Whether you agree with its base or not wasn't the question, as I responded to your accusation. Now you've subsequently failed to address any of the rest of the post after dropping in with a steaming cold take on my 'baseless' claim. Shameful.

You didn't say those words but you made the argument from a place of authority, which is a logical fallacy. You were explaining that your made up fact was based on your expertise, but that's invalid. A lot of woke people could teach you about logical fallacies, i bet