unemployment up to 9.6%

#54
#54
Jaytrain5 said:
No doubt about it.

And now we're looking at an additional 20 weeks of eligibility, pushing benefits to 119 weeks.

2 years and 3 months of unemployment benefits. It's insane.
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Not according to Keynesian disciples. That money will get spent and since they make the error of assuming an fixed link between demand and employment they think that spending will eventually move the unemployed magically into new jobs.

That's why Pelosi made the gaff that unemployment benefits were a job creation program... like our young friend here, she gulped real hard.
 
#55
#55
T-TownVol said:
wait until Jan 1 and see how much more this administration has to send wherever they please....you may not care how much of YOUR money they take, but some of us do
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I do care, but they will take whatever they deemed necessary, and spend it however they like..unfortunately. I will be effected as much or more than most.
 
#57
#57
droski said:
no american citizens working in iraq or afganistan huh?
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NPR reported earlier this week on how some corrupt officials in Iraq actually used some of our taxes to fund the taliban/insurgents weapon supply. When it comes to both these governments, I cannot imagine how corrupt some of them are, and how some of our tax dollars are actually being used against our own troops. But you keep living in lala land.
 
#59
#59
so you suggest it's better to use our tax dollars to encourage our populace to not work?
 
#62
#62
sjt18 said:
Not according to Keynesian disciples. That money will get spent and since they make the error of assuming an fixed link between demand and employment they think that spending will eventually move the unemployed magically into new jobs.

That's why Pelosi made the gaff that unemployment benefits were a job creation program... like our young friend here, she gulped real hard.
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Imagine how strong our economy would be if we could get millions more to stay at home and turn down work.

300 million unemployed Americans sitting around, eating Combos and watching Maury every day. Now that's economic prosperity.
 
#63
#63
droski said:
so you suggest it's better to use our tax dollars to encourage our populace to not work?
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I know you and I have gotten into this before, so it's pointless to waste more of my time. Besides, lunch is over, and back to work......or I might become one of those slackers that are unemployed.:hi:
 
#64
#64
droski said:
so you suggest it's better to use our tax dollars to encourage our populace to not work?
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that way, we get to blame the trade deficit for our economic problems. All of us greedy Americans consume too much.
 
#65
#65
droski said:
so you suggest it's better to use our tax dollars to encourage our populace to not work?
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You seem to have a rather low opinion of the average American. I'm going to take a wild guess here an say most people do not like being on unemployment. I really have no unemployed friends that are just enjoying the heck out being unemployed, or taking that unemployment check worth about 10% of their previous checks.:blink:
 
#66
#66
I think I understand why "Keynes" is on the lips of everyone these days.

Of course, the fundamental problem during Keynes time was unemployment. That was the problem that confounded everyone and needed solving. Of course, the mixed economies post WWII did fix that. Attlee drove unemployment down to 1.3% all while sensibly implementing a proper National Health Service; France completely modernized its ailing industries in less than a decade under the Monnet Plan (Jean Monnet, very colorful character). The undamaged US (all due respect to Hawaii) provided deep governmental assistance in the Marshall Plan. It worked a freakin' treat.

During the ascendency of Keynes, the greatest period of prosperity in the history of the world (let's remember, real wages have been stagnant in the Western World since 1973 - when Friedman replaced Keynes, and the neoliberal project to restore elite class power began).

As Capitalism is suffering from yet another "cycle" (read: Crisis of Legitimacy), with real unemployment somewhere between 15 - 20% throughout the Western World, the ideologues of course must try to stamp on Keynes again because, well, it wasn't that long ago it was working so well to correct the problems of a completely "disqualified" (to use De Gaulle's term) capitalist regime.
 
#67
#67
BigPapaVol said:
that way, we get to blame the trade deficit for our economic problems. All of us greedy Americans consume too much.
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To borrow from Lewis Mumford (in the 1930s mind you):

Normalizing consumption is probably THE most important cultural revolution that needs to happen. And PDQ.
 
#68
#68
utgibbs said:
To borrow from Lewis Mumford (in the 1930s mind you):

Normalizing consumption is probably THE most important cultural revolution that needs to happen. And PDQ.
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You go right ahead an "normalize" your consumption all you want to.

Try to mess with my hard earned consumption, and you're likely to end up staring down the business end of my 12 gauge.

This is still America, where we recognize a man's right to earn his living and to enjoy the fruits of his earnings. We are not Democratic Kampuchea, at least not quite yet.
 
#69
#69
utgibbs said:
To borrow from Lewis Mumford (in the 1930s mind you):

Normalizing consumption is probably THE most important cultural revolution that needs to happen. And PDQ.
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normalizing and minimizing gov't consumption would be the single largest contributor to this mess. You on board?
 
#70
#70
utgibbs said:
I think I understand why "Keynes" is on the lips of everyone these days.

Of course, the fundamental problem during Keynes time was unemployment. That was the problem that confounded everyone and needed solving. Of course, the mixed economies post WWII did fix that. Attlee drove unemployment down to 1.3% all while sensibly implementing a proper National Health Service; France completely modernized its ailing industries in less than a decade under the Monnet Plan (Jean Monnet, very colorful character). The undamaged US (all due respect to Hawaii) provided deep governmental assistance in the Marshall Plan. It worked a freakin' treat.

During the ascendency of Keynes, the greatest period of prosperity in the history of the world (let's remember, real wages have been stagnant in the Western World since 1973 - when Friedman replaced Keynes, and the neoliberal project to restore elite class power began).

As Capitalism is suffering from yet another "cycle" (read: Crisis of Legitimacy), with real unemployment somewhere between 15 - 20% throughout the Western World, the ideologues of course must try to stamp on Keynes again because, well, it wasn't that long ago it was working so well to correct the problems of a completely "disqualified" (to use De Gaulle's term) capitalist regime.
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If it isn't working, just make stuff up and throw out some selective stats to make it work. Hell, you do it for Fulmer, so why not here?
 
#72
#72
utgibbs said:
Attlee drove unemployment down to 1.3% all while sensibly implementing a proper National Health Service; France completely modernized its ailing industries in less than a decade under the Monnet Plan (Jean Monnet, very colorful character). The undamaged US (all due respect to Hawaii) provided deep governmental assistance in the Marshall Plan. It worked a freakin' treat.
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and what happened for the 70 years after that? america's economy and incomes grew faster than the UK and france combined and the unemployement rate of the US was lower than the two combined as well. The socialist takeover after churchill absolutely turned the UK into a second rate world power. but hey they got that "free" heathcare. surely was worth it!
 
#73
#73
J-P said:
You go right ahead an "normalize" your consumption all you want to.

Try to mess with my hard earned consumption, and you're likely to end up staring down the business end of my 12 gauge.

This is still America, where we recognize a man's right to earn his living and to enjoy the fruits of his earnings. We are not Democratic Kampuchea, at least not quite yet.
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Wow. You may want to reconsider choice of weapons; I'm a dead aim at 200 yards with my arsenal of deer rifles.

If you like to think of yourself as a consumer, it is your right. I tend to think cows are consumers, and I would rather think of myself as a citizen.

To each his own.
 
#74
#74
droski said:
and what happened for the 70 years after that? america's economy and incomes grew faster than the UK and france combined and the unemployement rate of the US was lower than the two combined as well. The socialist takeover after churchill absolutely turned the UK into a second rate world power. but hey they got that "free" heathcare. surely was worth it!
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Hmmmmm. This is a very interesting take. It's too bad almost none of it is true.

Unemployment was low in the US, but not as low as France and England (again, thanks to full employment policies). Both France and England had to dig themselves out of the rubble first too.

Churchill actually nationalized what would become BP after WWI when he was the Exchequer. The Crisis of Empire was already strained long before WWII put a fork in it.

The NHS is not "free" but citizens pay far less money for it than we do our system in America, and according to the WHO (and to a host of health statistics) they get more for their money. It is a comprehensive system as well. If you want to pay private in Britain, you can as well.

Health care is a classic "market failure" enterprise.
 
#75
#75
utgibbs said:
Hmmmmm. This is a very interesting take. It's too bad almost none of it is true.

Unemployment was low in the US, but not as low as France and England (again, thanks to full employment policies). Both France and England had to dig themselves out of the rubble first too.

Churchill actually nationalized what would become BP after WWI when he was the Exchequer. The Crisis of Empire was already strained long before WWII put a fork in it.

The NHS is not "free" but citizens pay far less money for it than we do our system in America, and according to the WHO (and to a host of health statistics) they get more for their money. It is a comprehensive system as well. If you want to pay private in Britain, you can as well.

Health care is a classic "market failure" enterprise.
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what the hell does the unemployment rate have to do with the actual GDP growth rates he cited, which are absolutely true.

We damn well know that FDR set up a system such that future politicians need a subject class to give up votes for free money. Many have gone out of their way to keep that subject class broke and voting. Ergo, we now consider full employment 4-5% unemployment.
 
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