UT Leaders Defend Dave Hart

[CannonVol80]

It's not entirely accurate that the Adidas contract was more lucrative for Tennessee. While it is true that the guaranteed payout was greater by Adidas, Tennessee gets a greater percentage of sales revenue from the Nike contract.

And, this is another reason why the elimination of the Lady Vols logo makes no sense. I have seen arguments on here that fans of the Lady Vols don't/won't buy Vols gear, but would buy Lady Vols gear. Personally, I think that would be a very small percentage of Lady Vol fans. Most Lady Vol fans, I believe, are more like me and have both a Lady Vol wardrobe and a Power T wardrobe. But, especially if you assume that Lady Vol fans are only going to buy Lady Vols gear, why cut off a reasonable number of purchases and thus a portion of your income stream?

Jim

 

[Sandvol]

It's not entirely accurate that the Adidas contract was more lucrative for Tennessee. While it is true that the guaranteed payout was greater by Adidas, Tennessee gets a greater percentage of sales revenue from the Nike contract.

And, this is another reason why the elimination of the Lady Vols logo makes no sense. I have seen arguments on here that fans of the Lady Vols don't/won't buy Vols gear, but would buy Lady Vols gear. Personally, I think that would be a very small percentage of Lady Vol fans. Most Lady Vol fans, I believe, are more like me and have both a Lady Vol wardrobe and a Power T wardrobe. But, especially if you assume that Lady Vol fans are only going to buy Lady Vols gear, why cut off a reasonable number of purchases and thus a portion of your income stream?

Jim

This thing has nothing to do with Nike. Have you seen the audit? Nike doesn't really care.

 

[CannonVol80]

I realize that Nike has/had nothing to do with the decision. My comment is actually intended to debunk the argument that Nike recommended/required the elimination of the Lady Vols logo, as well as, pointing out how stupid the decision by Dave Hart is, if money were indeed a factor.

Another point, actually made in this "support" article, is that the Lady Vol logo was very quietly removed from the soccer team two years ago! Interestingly, this coincides with the arrival of Hart's man as the head coach. Another interesting point about that is that the current soccer coach is being paid more than Angie Kelly was before she left, an occurrence that was driven by the fact that Hart refused to consider a raise for Ms. Kelly.

Jim

 

[CannonVol80]

And, while I'm on a roll, can anyone on here tell me what the current recruiting budget is for Lady Vols basketball? I'm betting Deerpark would know.

The reason I ask is because I'd almost be willing to bet that the recruiting budget has been reduced since Hart took control.

Jim

 

[508mikey]

I wonder would another supplier be allowed to pick up the Lady Vols trademark IF Nike really is the ones behind the change ? At least LV fans could buy and wear the stuff even if the teams cant .

 

[gule]

somebody with artistic ability draw us a skeleton still holding tight to a Lady Vol jersey, plz.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

And, while I'm on a roll, can anyone on here tell me what the current recruiting budget is for Lady Vols basketball? I'm betting Deerpark would know.

The reason I ask is because I'd almost be willing to bet that the recruiting budget has been reduced since Hart took control.

Jim

More conspiracy theories with no base. There was a budget report that was released about a month or 2 ago and lady vols basketball was third on the list for money allowed. Would you like to take a stab at what was last? Try baseball

 

[CannonVol80]

More conspiracy theories with no base. There was a budget report that was released about a month or 2 ago and lady vols basketball was third on the list for money allowed. Would you like to take a stab at what was last? Try baseball

Thank you for your responsive and informative answer. Since my question was about the recruiting portion of the budget, however, I'm not sure that the answer was of much help.

Unfortunately, the way the Athletic Department reports the budget leaves a lot to be desired from an informational standpoint. For example, saying that Lady Vols basketball was third on the list for monies received doesn't allow any comparison of the recruiting budgets. Just based on the limited information I was able to find, the salaries for the coaching staffs are substantially different, with two assistant coaches on the Lady Vols staff individually earning more than any member of the baseball staff other than Dave Serrano. Additionally, if my understanding is correct, baseball has a maximum of 11.7 equivalent scholarships while women's basketball has fifteen (of which, Holly is currently using 14), making basketball more expensive.

My point, although admittedly not particularly well articulated, has more to do with the complaints about Holly's recruiting. A substantial number of people continue to blame her for poor recruiting (a position I don't necessarily agree with), but don't consider what she has to work with. And, yes, I do think that Hart would reduce the women's basketball recruiting budget before many of the men's sports.

The only information I've been able to garner at this point is a breakdown of the entire athletic department recruiting budget and the football portion of that budget. ($2,387,201/$1,297,109) And before anybody jumps down my throat for mentioning football, I understand that football is the engine that drives the bus and is expected to get the lion's share of the funding. I would, however, be interested in seeing the figures for the other sports and see how that figure compares for the Lady Vols both pre- and post- Hart.

Jim

 

[DeerPark12]

The Lady Vols athletes & fans aren't protesting combining the two athletic departments. Never have. The protests are over the Lady Vols name and logo. Period. The protesters include Lady Vol soccer players (as well as golfers, rowers, volleyball players, swimmers).

By law, UT has to keep one woman senior administrator in their athletic department. That's Donna Thomas, the one woman senior administrator in the athletic department. Her yes-man comments keep her in that job. That she had never worn the Power T before the merger doesn't speak that well for her as a Vol, in my opinion.

The men have gotten barber shops and motorcycles. All the women are asking for is their name.

Motorcycles? Those are the players' personal motorcycles, not anything paid for by UT.

The barber shop is a facility that is available to both male and female athletes. It is staffed by the company that owns Frank's and Salon Visage.

 

[DeerPark12]

And, while I'm on a roll, can anyone on here tell me what the current recruiting budget is for Lady Vols basketball? I'm betting Deerpark would know.

The reason I ask is because I'd almost be willing to bet that the recruiting budget has been reduced since Hart took control.

Jim

It has not. No sport has had their team or recruiting budget cut since Hart took over.

In fact, the team budgets are up almost 20% across the board because an internal audit commissioned by Hart showed that Tennessee's teams were receiving less funding compared to their peers in the SEC under the previous administrations.

 

[DeerPark12]

Another point, actually made in this "support" article, is that the Lady Vol logo was very quietly removed from the soccer team two years ago! Interestingly, this coincides with the arrival of Hart's man as the head coach. Another interesting point about that is that the current soccer coach is being paid more than Angie Kelly was before she left, an occurrence that was driven by the fact that Hart refused to consider a raise for Ms. Kelly.

Jim

True, because she had made the NCAA Tournament just once in the last 3 seasons at the time. Texas offered her a substantial increase and Hart would not justify that type of pay raise from a coach that had only made 1 NCAA Tourney in the last 3 seasons.

The new coach, Pensky, is being paid more than Kelly was, but less than the package from Texas that she asked Tennessee to match. He has also been to a Final Four, she's never been past the sweet 16.

 

[governmentmule]

Because everything is a freaking conspiracy theory with the "lady vols" crowd. You guys think that Dave Hart or "bama Dave" is trying to end all women's athletics at the University of Tennessee. When he's trying to create one athletic department and one brand. Guess what until Dave Hart came on board this athletic department was headed for bankruptcy. If it wasn't for Dave Hart and fixing the financial burden left by the previous regime this University may only have football if even that. So if anything the "lady vols" crowd should be thankful that the University of Tennessee has an athletic director who actually cares enough to make sure ALL sports are funded. If anyone should be upset it should be the band because their expenses were cut dramaticly out of necessity to fund things such as flying the "lady vols" rowing team and their boats to California to compete. So don't give me this Dave Hart hates women blah blah blah blah and be thankful that he recognizes the importance of women's athletics at Tennessee and is doing his absolute best to make sure they don't go anywhere.

are you talking about the SEC Network money coming in that is helping Hart look like a money manager ?

Hamilton made a lot of mistakes,but he did get UT to build all the great sports centers they have now,that CBJ and others are using as a recruiting tool and Hart is riding as to why there making more money and getting better recruits

to be honest,I've never liked Hart since he put Wilcox and company on the road,they were doing good on defense till that happened,that was with the lack of contract extensions for them

He did back into a good hire with CBJ and now it seems he has with Texas decision and the hiring of Barnes

but I don't think he cares about the Lady Vols at all,or we wouldn't be having these discussions about them

 

[VollyParton]

Another letter from a former Lady Vol soccer player. Those soccer players write very well.

John Adams has an article in the Knox News about Diamond Deshields' mom's opinions on dropping the LV name & logo. Mama ain't happy.

The A.D. could stop all this so simply by reversing a dumb decision. I'd celebrate by replacing all my old UT shirts with news ones (Power T & Lady Vol) and renewing the season ticket I dropped this year.
(on edit: I know it ain't much, but it ain't nothin' either)

 

[VollyParton]

Motorcycles? Those are the players' personal motorcycles, not anything paid for by UT.

Thank you for clearing that up for me on the motorcycles. I was wondering how that was getting by the NCAA. I was misinformed, and I am sorry I repeated that bad information here.

 

[gule]

wonderful letter, imho

f hart!

 

[Sandvol]

This whole notion that the athletic department was in shambles when Hart arrived is fiction. It is true we had no reserve but we've never had a reserve. Our University's and Athletic Department's practice has been to give money to the University each year and that practice ended when Hart arrived because he and Cheek convinced everyone it is important to emulate Alabama and build up a big reserve. Also, we had just built the Pratt Pavilion, Softball Stadium, TBA upgrade, Neyland upgrade and we're paying all this debt off way ahead of schedule which Hamilton knew we could do. So, stop with the AD was in shambles and Hart is straightening it out BS.

 

[DeerPark12]

This whole notion that the athletic department was in shambles when Hart arrived is fiction. It is true we had no reserve but we've never had a reserve. Our University's and Athletic Department's practice has been to give money to the University each year and that practice ended when Hart arrived because he and Cheek convinced everyone it is important to emulate Alabama and build up a big reserve. Also, we had just built the Pratt Pavilion, Softball Stadium, TBA upgrade, Neyland upgrade and we're paying all this debt off way ahead of schedule which Hamilton knew we could do. So, stop with the AD was in shambles and Hart is straightening it out BS.

Sorry, but that line is completely false. When Hart took over, we would have defaulted on the loans on two of those projects had he not been able to secure financing to refinance them. At no time was UT ever ahead of schedule on paying back loans from facility projects.

In building the Neyland and TBA projects, they began construction when they received pledges for 60% of the cost of the project, rather than waiting until they had the cash in hand, as is supposed to be policy. Many of the pledges on both projects were never collected due to the fall in the economy.

Additionally, Neyland upgrades were supposed to be financed by the revenue from the new club seats and Tennessee Terrace. Problem was, they did not sell out those seats and revenue from them was well under projections and did not come close to paying for the projects.

Also, to say we never had a reserve is also false. There was a $20+ million reserve in the late 1990s, it was slowly squandered away by the Hamilton administration. It isn;t being builto "emulate Alabama" it is being built to bring UT into line with other major schools so an emergency situation does not bankrupt the department.

Someone else mentioned Hart "getting credit for" the increased SEC Network money. UT hasn't received any of that yet. It starts coming in after July of this year. He and his staff have changed the financial fortunes at UT with revenues and SEC disbursements staying relatively flat.

 

[Sandvol]

Sorry, but that line is completely false. When Hart took over, we would have defaulted on the loans on two of those projects had he not been able to secure financing to refinance them. At no time was UT ever ahead of schedule on paying back loans from facility projects.

In building the Neyland and TBA projects, they began construction when they received pledges for 60% of the cost of the project, rather than waiting until they had the cash in hand, as is supposed to be policy. Many of the pledges on both projects were never collected due to the fall in the economy.

Additionally, Neyland upgrades were supposed to be financed by the revenue from the new club seats and Tennessee Terrace. Problem was, they did not sell out those seats and revenue from them was well under projections and did not come close to paying for the projects.

Also, to say we never had a reserve is also false. There was a $20+ million reserve in the late 1990s, it was slowly squandered away by the Hamilton administration. It isn;t being builto "emulate Alabama" it is being built to bring UT into line with other major schools so an emergency situation does not bankrupt the department.

Someone else mentioned Hart "getting credit for" the increased SEC Network money. UT hasn't received any of that yet. It starts coming in after July of this year. He and his staff have changed the financial fortunes at UT with revenues and SEC disbursements staying relatively flat.

That is the company line now. Still not in shambles. Most of the drop in supposed reserves is due to football attendance declines. Also, Hamilton would have secured refinancing and he was very good at raising money. Also, the financial misfortunes were changed because we started paying off some of the buyouts and buildings.

 

[Sandvol]

Also, to say we never had a reserve is also false. There was a $20+ million reserve in the late 1990s, it was slowly squandered away by the Hamilton administration. It isn;t being builto "emulate Alabama" it is being built to bring UT into line with other major schools so an emergency situation does not bankrupt the department.

Please explain how Hamilton squandered away this supposed "reserve"?

 

[Sandvol]

Here is an article about the finances from a couple of years ago. Not in a shambles. Nothing earth shattering that a 5th grade math student couldn't figure out how to remedy.

At Tennessee, Big Orange battles red ink - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal | SportsBusiness Daily Global

 

[DeerPark12]

That is the company line now. Still not in shambles. Most of the drop in supposed reserves is due to football attendance declines. Also, Hamilton would have secured refinancing and he was very good at raising money. Also, the financial misfortunes were changed because we started paying off some of the buyouts and buildings.

Again, that's just not correct. While Hamilton was good at one time at raising money, UT had a decline in giving each of his last three years as AD. The largest drop coming in his final year as AD.

You can blame that on football declines, but he left after the 2010 season, Dooley's first, where we made a bowl and overachieved to a certain extent. There was much excitement and optimism heading into the 2011 season and by all accounts, things should have been headed up. Instead, donations dropped off sharply.

Your last line is even more incorrect. We didn't "pay off" buyouts. Per state regulation, any state agency, including the UTAD, has to place 100% of a buyout in an annuity at the time of the dismissal and it has to come off the books immediately. So when we fired Fulmer, his entire buyout came out of the UT coffers right away. Same for Peterson, Raleigh, etc.

Under Hamilton, the UTAD never once paid on a facilities project loan early. Not one cent.

 

[DeerPark12]

Please explain how Hamilton squandered away this supposed "reserve"?

Easy, by having a budget with expenses that exceeded revenues every year. He started guaranteeing a set cash payment to the University each year and then consistently could not budget well enough to make those numbers work.

 

[Sandvol]

Again, that's just not correct. While Hamilton was good at one time at raising money, UT had a decline in giving each of his last three years as AD. The largest drop coming in his final year as AD.

Again, wasn't that mostly due to the economy and football misfortunes that he was trying to correct?

You can blame that on football declines, but he left after the 2010 season, Dooley's first, where we made a bowl and overachieved to a certain extent. There was much excitement and optimism heading into the 2011 season and by all accounts, things should have been headed up. Instead, donations dropped off sharply.

Wasn't that partly because of the Pearl fiasco? That I do blame on Hamilton. It never should have happened. But, I don't think the excitement was ever very high with Dooley.

Your last line is even more incorrect. We didn't "pay off" buyouts. Per state regulation, any state agency, including the UTAD, has to place 100% of a buyout in an annuity at the time of the dismissal and it has to come off the books immediately. So when we fired Fulmer, his entire buyout came out of the UT coffers right away. Same for Peterson, Raleigh, etc.

What I meant was we still had the Dooley buyout and the Hamilton buyout and Pat Sumitt's little payout and Raleigh's payout. Wasn't really meaning Fulmer's. Also, Sunsieri fiasco added to the buyout woes. If he had just allowed Wilcox to extend his contract one year he probably would have had to deal with that.

Under Hamilton, the UTAD never once paid on a facilities project loan early. Not one cent.

Did they pay for one early under Dickey or Woodruff?

 

[Sandvol]

My whole contention is the athletic department's finances were not in shambles. They were easily corrected which Hart has done. But, really it wasn't very difficult with the kind of revenue our AD generates so let's not give him too much credit for that. Is the athletic department generating any new revenue that couldn't be accounted for by inflation or a rebound in the economy? No.

 

[gule]

fire Dave, asap