UT's policy on Concealed carry

#53
#53
droski said:
your age? and as a 34 year old you'd imagine i wouldn't know many academics?
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Man, you assume way too much based on nothing. And I mean nothing. Your definition of an academic may be different than mine. Mine would be someone who has attained a doctorate AND has remained around a college or university, teaching and/or researching, most of his or her life.
 
#54
#54
shortgameVol said:
Man, you assume way too much based on nothing. And I mean nothing. Your definition of an academic may be different than mine. Mine would be someone who has attained a doctorate AND has remained around a college or university, teaching and/or researching, most of his or her life.
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and i know many of these people. how many do you know? and once again what is your age?
 
#56
#56
droski said:
who said it was a few experiences? i also have friends who are professors at MIT as well. does that count? what are your experiences taht are superior?
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Never said my experiences were superior. You have multiple friends who are professors at MIT? Those odds would have to be on the high scale given the geographical differences. If you were from around the Boston area it wouldn't be so uncommon, but aren't you from California and didn't you go to school there too?

My mother was a college professor as were two of her sisters. One taught at Berkley for a number of years before going back to Amherst. The other at Texas-Austin. My mother taught at Belmont and Emory
 
#60
#60
BeecherVol said:
You mean you don't buy the idea that the responsibility level rises off campus?
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not sure I buy that many college students are what I would call "responsible" but if they can get the permit from the state then why can't they carry on state grounds
 
#62
#62
IPorange said:
Actually, having read the articles, the first response from the English lecturer was a logical and well-thought-out one. You made it sound like he was ignoring your points, but that didn't seem to be the case.

People are going to disagree.
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It may seem so but he was attacking a straw man. He appears to hold the belief that "concealed carry" means "open carry", and he also demonstrates a deep-seated misunderstanding of how real-world gunfights actually happen, likely due to a lifetime of exposure to guns through movies and other such media. I address both points in my second letter.
 
#64
#64
hndog609 said:
I will say that more than a few "intellectuals" are also the most intellectually stubborn. Somebody that feels they're knowledgeable about a subject (and in fact are) can be terribly dismissive of even the most reasoned arguments against what they believe to be true.

I remember one guy, years ago, who fancied himself quite scholarly on all things related to fighter aircraft. In fact he did know quite a bit but took umbrage with me insisting that the Blue Angels had, in fact, flown F4 Phantoms in the late 60's/early '70's. How or why he didn't know this to be true I have no idea but I firmly believe it was precisely how much he did know that kept him from accepting there was something he didn't.

Then there's the prevalence of those that figure their being most learned in one area allows them to speak quite authoritatively on other subjects, including those in which they might actually be quite ignorant.
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There's a related concept in psychology (ironically thought up by the same academians) called the "Dunning-Kruger effect". It's an observation that people who are confident of their abilities in a particular area are actually less competent, on average, than their peers with lower confidence. Basically being highly-educated tends to subconsciously inflate your ego.

That doesn't mean that academics are all worthless or they're not highly intelligent on some matters, it's just that you should take what they say with a grain of salt when it's outside their expertise. At the end of the day it's about evidence. It doesn't matter how many diplomas you have on your wall if the evidence stacks against you. Unfortunately no one wants to engage me on the evidence, except the history professor, who took my numbers out of context in order to make her point.
 
#65
#65
shortgameVol said:
Never said my experiences were superior. You have multiple friends who are professors at MIT? Those odds would have to be on the high scale given the geographical differences. If you were from around the Boston area it wouldn't be so uncommon, but aren't you from California and didn't you go to school there too?

My mother was a college professor as were two of her sisters. One taught at Berkley for a number of years before going back to Amherst. The other at Texas-Austin. My mother taught at Belmont and Emory
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my wife went to upenn and my best friend from college is now a prof at MIT. i know plenty of academics i assure you.

your sister taught at Cal and you don't know how to spell Berkeley?
 
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#66
#66
shortgameVol said:
I agree although I do think law abiding citizens should be able to own a firearm.

The last thing this country needs is for college students to be carrying
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I've got news for you, most irresponsible college students won't be capable of getting a permit. If they want to carry guns they'll do it anyway (see: Tyler Smith).
 
#67
#67
shortgameVol said:
>100

46
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so that extra 10 years makes all the difference huh?

maybe you don't think these people are a bunch of idiot elitists with little no real world experience because you are an idiot elitist with no real world experience raised by the same?
 
#68
#68
shortgameVol said:
I agree although I do think law abiding citizens should be able to own a firearm.

The last thing this country needs is for college students to be carrying
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For the sake of discussion what in particular separates one person legally carrying (meaning with valid state license) on campus vs that same person standing in line with you at the grocery store?
 
#69
#69
Snakes on a Wii said:
It may seem so but he was attacking a straw man. He appears to hold the belief that "concealed carry" means "open carry", and he also demonstrates a deep-seated misunderstanding of how real-world gunfights actually happen, likely due to a lifetime of exposure to guns through movies and other such media. I address both points in my second letter.
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I took it as he was referencing situations where an illegal incident from a non-legal carrying person occurred, legal carry might at chaos and further tragedy. He was never presenting it as though concealed carriers were wearing holsters, he was saying IF something happened and IF concealed carriers took out their arms (which is the point, right?), it could potentially confuse the situation.

I don't agree with his POV, but his argument was lucid and reasonable.
 
#71
#71
droski said:
my wife went to upenn and my best friend from college is now a prof at MIT. i know plenty of academics i assure you.

your sister taught at Cal and you don't know how to spell Berkeley?
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It's my aunt(I said my mother's sister) and I am sorry for the misspelling.

No one has said you didn't know plenty of academics. I was cautioning you at making a broad generalizaton based on your limited experiences with them. And yes, YOUR experiences, relatively speaking, are extremely limited. I thought you said you had several friends who were professors at MIT? Nevermind. I don't want to harp on your exaggerations.
 
#72
#72
hndog609 said:
For the sake of discussion what in particular separates one person legally carrying (meaning with valid state license) on campus vs that same person standing in line with you at the grocery store?
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I have a friend who is a big gun nut. He used to be in the Air Force. He got so tired of people continuing to advocate "gun-free zones" that he concealed several handguns (legally, I might note) and went grocery shopping. No one noticed anything amiss.

This also highlights an important secondary issue I never mentioned. I live near the Fort. If I am walking back from campus, how am I supposed to suddenly "re-arm" myself en route to my apartment? When you live and work near campus the handgun ban gets quite restrictive. It's not so much about preventing Virginia Tech, but basic safety. Muggings, etc, around UT campus continue to be commonplace.
 
#73
#73
Snakes on a Wii said:
There's a related concept in psychology (ironically thought up by the same academians) called the "Dunning-Kruger effect". It's an observation that people who are confident of their abilities in a particular area are actually less competent, on average, than their peers with lower confidence. Basically being highly-educated tends to subconsciously inflate your ego.

That doesn't mean that academics are all worthless or they're not highly intelligent on some matters, it's just that you should take what they say with a grain of salt when it's outside their expertise. At the end of the day it's about evidence. It doesn't matter how many diplomas you have on your wall if the evidence stacks against you. Unfortunately no one wants to engage me on the evidence, except the history professor, who took my numbers out of context in order to make her point.
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Perhaps you are overly confident in your own knowledge on the subject matter, that you feel your evidence trumps any dissenting opinion?

This is a social issue, I don't know if they have inherently "correct" and "incorrect" answers, only different values and fundamental beliefs.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with your stance. I just think the opposing view is not without merit.
 
#74
#74
IPorange said:
I took it as he was referencing situations where an illegal incident from a non-legal carrying person occurred, legal carry might at chaos and further tragedy. He was never presenting it as though concealed carriers were wearing holsters, he was saying IF something happened and IF concealed carriers took out their arms (which is the point, right?), it could potentially confuse the situation.

I don't agree with his POV, but his argument was lucid and reasonable.
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It is if you accept the premise that the police could ever get into a situation like that. However as I pointed out, the police would almost never arrive during a gunfight between a lone gunman and concealed carriers because gunfights typically resolve themselves in a matter of seconds. This movie stuff where we see extended sieges and people ducking behind desks blind-firing is pure fantasy.
 
#75
#75
shortgameVol said:
It's my aunt(I said my mother's sister) and I am sorry for the misspelling.

No one has said you didn't know plenty of academics. I was cautioning you at making a broad generalizaton based on your limited experiences with them. And yes, YOUR experiences, relatively speaking, are extremely limited. I thought you said you had several friends who were professors at MIT? Nevermind. I don't want to harp on your exaggerations.
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i don't have limited experience. you don't know crap about me. and yes i have more than one friend who is a professor at MIT. i also have a friend who is a professor at Arizona State. some are closer friends than others. fact remains YOU are the one talking out of your arse.
 
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