vols all sec star gazing

#26
#26
Fighting Possum said:
Interesting numbers. Do you happen to know if similar percentages are true of other SEC teams without doing the research?
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i found the numbers for florida. same time period and everything else

42 ***** signed. 12 all sec. 28.5% made all sec

97 *** signed. 11 all sec. 11.3% made all sec

12 **** players also made all sec
 
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#27
#27
Stars matter because of odds alone.. Doesn't mean you can't find a lot of 3's that really should have been 4's or 5's.. Key is identifying those players early and get in on them early..

Florida over that same amount of time has had on paper better players. It's equaled to more success. This is the case more times than not. Bucking the trend is not the norm or something that occurs often. Not many Johnny Manziels out there.

The process of building Tennessee back up will probably be a slower process than any of us would like. It's going to take gaining momentum somehow. This has to be the most snake biten program i've witnessed over the last 5 years. Seems like if it could go wrong it did. We got to find a way to reverse that trend.
 
#28
#28
Not sure all these statistics mean much. How many 4* & 5* players are on the team that just beat Florida in the Sugar Bowl? I`m sure there are many more on the UF football team than there are on the Louisville football team. The problem with star gazers is that they think the only good football players are 4* and 5* players and they don't want to hear about any 3* players. Those who don't star gaze know that many 3* players end up being great players.
 
#32
#32
99gator said:
since 2006 (7 years), i found various all-sec lists for each year. some years were from the coaches, some from the ap. there was no reason behind this other than whatever was the easiest to find by year through the search engine was the one i used. i found all of the tennessee players who made 1st or 2nd team all sec in those years. i used rankings from scout, because they were the easiest for me to get, to determine each players star rating.

5 star guys
eric berry
cordarelle patterson f4
da'rick rogers
robert meachem
james wilhoit

4 star guys
justin hunter
antonio richardson
janzen jackson
chris scott
montario hardesty
rico mccoy
robert ayers
britton colquitt
arron sears
johnathan wade

3 star guys
mychal rivera
malik jackson (originally signed with usc)
dan williams
anthony parker
jerod mayo
daniel lincoln
jonathan hefney (hefney was a 2 star when signed in 2003 and a 3 star when signed in 2004. don't ask me why)

15 (***** and ****) players. 7 (***) players.

i did not take into account things like eric berry being a 1st or 2nd team all sec player for 3 years, whereas another player may have been a 2nd team all sec player for 1 year.

so, have at it.
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Nice work.
 
#33
#33
ric1958 said:
Not sure all these statistics mean much. How many 4* & 5* players are on the team that just beat Florida in the Sugar Bowl? I`m sure there are many more on the UF football team than there are on the Louisville football team. The problem with star gazers is that they think the only good football players are 4* and 5* players and they don't want to hear about any 3* players. Those who don't star gaze know that many 3* players end up being great players.
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no, that's really just not it. not it at all.
again, people like yourself, are pointing to the "exception" by highlighting the UL win vs UF. that was the exception, not the rule.

"The problem with star gazers is that they think the only good football players are 4* and 5* players"
- no, that is not correct. most simply recognize that these players are more "likely" to be successful contributors.

"Those who don't star gaze know that many 3* players end up being great players"
- no, wrong. obviously there are 3* players that go on to have great careers. everyone knows that some 3* go on to be great, but it is much less likely.

i am truly baffled by how so many seem to struggle to grasp this very simple concept
 
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#34
#34
Cartervol said:
We seem to have had a awful lot of busts over the years. I guess everyone has them. We seem to get our fair share sadly..
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It would, indeed, be interesting to statistically compare the “bust” rate for elite prospects at Tennessee vs. the national average, whatever that might be. Bobby Bowden once stated that he long ago came to the conclusion that, if FSU was going to compete for national championships, they were going to have to overlook a lot of character flaws. And that decision was reached despite having an enormous recruiting pool of instate talent, an advantage that we do not possess. Since we have to search farther afield to fill our roster with SEC-caliber athletes than schools with stronger instate talent, our recruiting efforts, arguably, will be accompanied by a higher risk of “wash out.” After all, most of those out-of-state 5-star signees will not have grown up with the same burning desire to give their all for UT as a homegrown lad with orange blood coursing through his veins. Of course, this argument does not begin to address player development, which is contingent upon the quality of coaching received.
 
#35
#35
85SugarVol said:
no, that's really just not it. not it at all.
again, people like yourself, are pointing to the "exception" by highlighting the UL win vs UF. that was the exception, not the rule.

"The problem with star gazers is that they think the only good football players are 4* and 5* players"
- no, that is not correct. most simply recognize that these players are more "likely" to be successful contributors.

"Those who don't star gaze know that many 3* players end up being great players"
- no, wrong. obviously there are 3* players that go on to have great careers. everyone knows that some 3* go on to be great, but it is much less likely.

i am truly baffled by how so many seem to struggle to grasp this very simple concept
Click to expand...

Incorrect MR. STARGAZER......we must not read the same forums or the same countless posts blasting a player or the coaching staff for recruiting said player because he is only a 3 star player. And the OP used Florida as an example for star gazing I just bought up UL to show that teams loaded with 4&5 star players don`t always win. If the truth hurts.....TOUGH!
 
#36
#36
99gator said:
since 2006 (7 years), i found various all-sec lists for each year. some years were from the coaches, some from the ap. there was no reason behind this other than whatever was the easiest to find by year through the search engine was the one i used. i found all of the tennessee players who made 1st or 2nd team all sec in those years. i used rankings from scout, because they were the easiest for me to get, to determine each players star rating.

5 star guys
eric berry
cordarelle patterson
da'rick rogers
robert meachem
james wilhoit

4 star guys
justin hunter
antonio richardson
janzen jackson
chris scott
montario hardesty
rico mccoy
robert ayers
britton colquitt
arron sears
johnathan wade

3 star guys
mychal rivera
malik jackson (originally signed with usc)
dan williams
anthony parker
jerod mayo
daniel lincoln
jonathan hefney (hefney was a 2 star when signed in 2003 and a 3 star when signed in 2004. don't ask me why)

15 (***** and ****) players. 7 (***) players.

i did not take into account things like eric berry being a 1st or 2nd team all sec player for 3 years, whereas another player may have been a 2nd team all sec player for 1 year.

so, have at it.
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Don't get me wrong (I like the info) but why would a Gator fan go through so much to research information on a rival team? And to beat it all the first one to comment is a Bama fan!!!! :)
 
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#37
#37
ric1958 said:
Incorrect MR. STARGAZER......we must not read the same forums or the same countless posts blasting a player or the coaching staff for recruiting said player because he is only a 3 star player. And the OP used Florida as an example for star gazing I just bought up UL to show that teams loaded with 4&5 star players don`t always win. If the truth hurts.....TOUGH!
Click to expand...

what?

the original post had names of tennessee players who made all sec and where they were rated out of high school.

information for florida was posted later when a poster was curious as to if those kind of numbers were true elsewhere
 
#38
#38
99gator said:
what?

the original post had names of tennessee players who made all sec and where they were rated out of high school.

information for florida was posted later when a poster was curious as to if those kind of numbers were true elsewhere
Click to expand...

You are correct, my apologies! :hi:
 
#39
#39
ric1958 said:
Incorrect MR. STARGAZER......we must not read the same forums or the same countless posts blasting a player or the coaching staff for recruiting said player because he is only a 3 star player. And the OP used Florida as an example for star gazing I just bought up UL to show that teams loaded with 4&5 star players don`t always win. If the truth hurts.....TOUGH!
Click to expand...

No. The OP did not use Florida as an example, he used Tennessee. He presented actual, factual data that shows, statistically, 4 & 5 star players are more likely to be successful sec players.

Are you simply incapable of understanding that concept?

This thread was never about bashing 3 stars, it was about presenting a historical, statistical fact.

And again, UF vs UL was the exception, not the rule. Of course the more talented team does not always win.
In related news, water is wet.
 
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#40
#40
Kids can be coached up we just finished 3 or 4 years of reverse coaching.It is now time to turn this thing around and leave DD in the anal ot times
 
#41
#41
Just by glancing at the data presented I think you could take it further. Most three star players making it to all sec status or major contributor seem to be line positions instead of skill positions. These guys seem to always be lower ranked and shine after bulking up in the weight program or are just hard workers at technique.
 
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#42
#42
Vol logic said:
Just by glancing at the data presented I think you could take it further. Most three star players making it to all sec status or major contributor seem to be line positions instead of skill positions. These guys seem to always be lower ranked and shine after bulking up in the weight program or are just hard workers at technique.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

So the star system works better on skill possitions.
 
#44
#44
85SugarVol said:
No. The OP did not use Florida as an example, he used Tennessee. He presented actual, factual data that shows, statistically, 4 & 5 star players are more likely to be successful sec players.

Are you simply incapable of understanding that concept?

This thread was never about bashing 3 stars, it was about presenting a historical, statistical fact.

And again, UF vs UL was the exception, not the rule. Of course the more talented team does not always win.
In related news, water is wet.
Click to expand...

The guy you're replying to is an absolute idiot, talking to him is like bashing your head against a cement wall. You are killing this guy with the facts and he'll come back with something like "Wrong again MR.STARGAZER, bwahahahaha!!!".
 
#45
#45
bamawriter said:
Or it's just easier to evaluate the more stat-friendly positions.
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Ding. Ding. Ding. I believe we have a winner! Pretty difficult to evaluate using stats (because they aren't kept) the guy/guys responsible for opening up the hole that gave a RB a 30 yard run.
 
#46
#46
Thanks for posting the Fla numbers 99. After sifting through the BS, I see some folks made some solid observations about linemen vs skill players. These are the kind of topics i enjoy on a football board. Its clear that more four and five star recruits make all SEC. It would be intetesting to know how many four and fives are busts simply because there are far fewer of them and i bet that percentage is high too.
 
#47
#47
I only used one method of measurement as well.

There is a Florida o-lineman who did not make all sec, but starts in the nfl.

Arian foster did not make an all sec team. Obviously, he can play.

So, there are mant ways to evaluate things.

I think the data does present a general accurate picture though
 
#48
#48
Fighting Possum said:
Thanks for posting the Fla numbers 99. After sifting through the BS, I see some folks made some solid observations about linemen vs skill players. These are the kind of topics i enjoy on a football board. Its clear that more four and five star recruits make all SEC. It would be intetesting to know how many four and fives are busts simply because there are far fewer of them and i bet that percentage is high too.
Click to expand...

Just looking over things, for florida at least, there were very few "solid contributers" who were 5 stars during that time.

They either were outstanding or washed out
 
#50
#50
99gator said:
since 2006 (7 years), i found various all-sec lists for each year. some years were from the coaches, some from the ap. there was no reason behind this other than whatever was the easiest to find by year through the search engine was the one i used. i found all of the tennessee players who made 1st or 2nd team all sec in those years. i used rankings from scout, because they were the easiest for me to get, to determine each players star rating.

5 star guys
eric berry
cordarelle patterson
da'rick rogers
robert meachem
james wilhoit

4 star guys
justin hunter
antonio richardson
janzen jackson
chris scott
montario hardesty
rico mccoy
robert ayers
britton colquitt
arron sears
johnathan wade

3 star guys
mychal rivera
malik jackson (originally signed with usc)
dan williams
anthony parker
jerod mayo
daniel lincoln
jonathan hefney (hefney was a 2 star when signed in 2003 and a 3 star when signed in 2004. don't ask me why)

15 (***** and ****) players. 7 (***) players.

i did not take into account things like eric berry being a 1st or 2nd team all sec player for 3 years, whereas another player may have been a 2nd team all sec player for 1 year.

so, have at it.
Click to expand...

Slowly coming out of the closet. What's up 99Vol?
 
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