War in Ukraine

#70,351
#70,351
AM64 said:
All Pootin has to do is call off his dogs and those Ukrainians are saved. You are blaming the wrong people.
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I'm blaming NATO/US for pushing the Ukrainians into going up against Russia and promising them support to do so. All the US/NATO is doing is fighting Russia now and costing Ukraine the lives of men and more territory lost.

AM64 said:
Ukraine has every right to fight for its land,
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No one is arguing that. But NATO, being a "defensive" alliance has a responsibility to not instigate conflicts by moving their borders towards another country without respecting the other countries security concerns.

AM64 said:
and other countries have every right to assist as long as Ukraine wants to fight for freedom.
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Other countries do have the right to assist. But in this case, was it the right thing to do for the United States? What benefit does the average American get out of defending a border half a world away when our own borders are violated daily?

Also, you say as long as Ukraine "wants to fight". Just how many Ukrainian men right now are wanting to fight right now? First off, if the Ukrainians were winning, they wouldn't be needing to press gang grandfathers and 15 year olds to go to the front lines. Also, their recruiting offices would be filling up with volunteers instead of fighting age men brining recruiters or looking to escape the country.

AM64 said:
What nobody has the right to do is invade another country because they want the land ... that's on Russia.
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Does "nobody" include the United States? Until you acknowledge our present occupation in Syria, you don't have a leg to stand on. Let's clean up our own house first before we start moralizing about foreign invaders...
 
#70,354
#70,354
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm blaming NATO/US for pushing the Ukrainians into going up against Russia and promising them support to do so. All the US/NATO is doing is fighting Russia now and costing Ukraine the lives of men and more territory lost.


No one is arguing that. But NATO, being a "defensive" alliance has a responsibility to not instigate conflicts by moving their borders towards another country without respecting the other countries security concerns.

Other countries do have the right to assist. But in this case, was it the right thing to do for the United States? What benefit does the average American get out of defending a border half a world away when our own borders are violated daily?

Also, you say as long as Ukraine "wants to fight". Just how many Ukrainian men right now are wanting to fight right now? First off, if the Ukrainians were winning, they wouldn't be needing to press gang grandfathers and 15 year olds to go to the front lines. Also, their recruiting offices would be filling up with volunteers instead of fighting age men brining recruiters or looking to escape the country.


Does "nobody" include the United States? Until you acknowledge our present occupation in Syria, you don't have a leg to stand on. Let's clean up our own house first before we start moralizing about foreign invaders...
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The key word is "DEFENSIVE ALLIANCE". NATO has not threatened to invade; they simply said this is where your aggression ends. Perhaps if Russian Soviets had treated countries like Poland better, they wouldn't be aligning with NATO. Poland and others simply have the "been there; done that; and got the, scars, wrecked economy, and "cheap" T-shirts" evidence that says they don't want anything to do with Russia. Ukraine shows in detail what Russia thinks of nonaligned border countries. Obviously you don't want to fall into that category.

Drop the Syria thing. It's stale and meaningless.
 
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#70,356
#70,356
AM64 said:
The key word is "DEFENSIVE ALLIANCE". NATO has not threatened to invade; they simply said this is where your aggression ends. Perhaps if Russian Soviets had treated countries like Poland better, they wouldn't be aligning with NATO. Poland and others simply have the "been there; done that; and got the, scars, wrecked economy, and "cheap" T-shirts" evidence that says they don't want anything to do with Russia. Ukraine shows in detail what Russia thinks of nonaligned border countries. Obviously you don't want to fall into that category.

Drop the Syria thing. It's stale and meaningless.
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No, they are more slick about it. They flood the Ukrainians with weapons and has their Poles and Baltic States sending in mercs. Also keep in mind that last February, NATO was saying they were not going to escalate and send Patriots, tanks, F-16s, etc. 'But today, where are we at? I wouldn't put it past them to at the very least push the Poles and Baltic States into making a move. Then if/when that fails, then the rest could possibly jump in.
 
#70,358
#70,358
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, they are more slick about it. They flood the Ukrainians with weapons and has their Poles and Baltic States sending in mercs. Also keep in mind that last February, NATO was saying they were not going to escalate and send Patriots, tanks, F-16s, etc. 'But today, where are we at? I wouldn't put it past them to at the very least push the Poles and Baltic States into making a move. Then if/when that fails, then the rest could possibly jump in.
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As opposed to annexing their territory, and creating faux separatist movements, that they then use as a justification for further invasions, and raping and murdering them in the process?

Can't imagine why Ukrainians would dislike Russia, and lean towards the EU and the US.
 
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#70,367
#70,367
clarksvol00 said:
This is the best your handlers could come up with?
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I’m assuming ZeroHedge has gone pretty quiet on the Russia-Ukraine war, so he probably had to come up with that one on his own. With no ZeroHedge talking points, he uses the ellipsis to prop up his opinion as if he is enlightened with knowledge the rest of us aren’t.
 
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#70,370
#70,370
BisonVol said:
I’m assuming ZeroHedge has gone pretty quiet on the Russia-Ukraine war, so he probably had to come up with that one on his own. With no ZeroHedge talking points, he uses the ellipsis to prop up his opinion as if he is enlightened with knowledge the rest of us aren’t.
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Pivot to Hunter when things aren't going well for Russia.
 
#70,374
#70,374
BisonVol said:
I’m assuming ZeroHedge has gone pretty quiet on the Russia-Ukraine war, so he probably had to come up with that one on his own. With no ZeroHedge talking points, he uses the ellipsis to prop up his opinion as if he is enlightened with knowledge the rest of us aren’t.
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I have no idea WTF you are babbling about, but I'll probably be putting you on ignore shortly.
 
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