War in Ukraine

#82,951
#82,951
volbound1700 said:
I agree that Russia probably doesn't want to do it but that would be the best mechanism to stop European Wars.

People think NATO is just geared at Russia, its original founding came off failure of Western European nations to deal with Nazi Germany and, in a way, was initially more directed at Germany. This was why West Germany's entry was controversial, it is basically the equivalent of Russia joining today.
Click to expand...

Lay off of the revisionist history.

NATO's formation was not geared towards Nazi Germany at all, it was 100% to provide collective defense against the Soviet Union after a Soviet coup in Czechoslovakia in 1947, and the Soviet blockade of West Berlin in 1948, that nearly had the US and the USSR in all-out war.

The reason Germany's introduction into NATO was controversial at the time, was because the rest of Europe was worried about the ramifications of allowing Germany to rearm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FortSanders
#82,952
#82,952
BeardedVol said:
Lay off of the revisionist history.

NATO's formation was not geared towards Nazi Germany at all, it was 100% to provide collective defense against the Soviet Union after a Soviet coup in Czechoslovakia in 1947, and the Soviet blockade of West Berlin in 1948, that nearly had the US and the USSR in all-out war.

The reason Germany's introduction into NATO was controversial at the time, was because the rest of Europe was worried about the ramifications of allowing Germany to rearm.
Click to expand...

Why was that? Explain the initial plan of the Western Union as well which was the precursor to NATO and only included UK, France, and Benelux nations.

There are official US policy documents referencing that NATO and even the EU setup were beneficial to America because they cited that if the Europeans are in an Alliance together, they are less likely to fight a war with each other.
 
#82,953
#82,953
volbound1700 said:
Why was that? Explain the initial plan of the Western Union as well which was the precursor to NATO and only included UK, France, and Benelux nations.

There are official US policy documents referencing that NATO and even the EU setup were beneficial to America because they cited that if the Europeans are in an Alliance together, they are less likely to fight a war with each other.
Click to expand...
Germany's history of invading other European countries goes much further back than 1939.

Germany was going to be the front line of any conflict with the USSR, which is why inviting them to NATO won out over fear of them being rearmed.

So no NATO was not initially formed to keep Nazi Germany from rising again.
 
#82,961
#82,961
hog88 said:
Both know the US money is about to dry up so I think it's a tossup.
Click to expand...
yep, Zelenaky is being cut off so I think Zelensky is in a worse position than Putin.

The Art of the Deal...Trump lets both sides to have a little something to crow about so each side can claim victory.
 
#82,964
#82,964
Zues1 said:
Putin thinks Ukraine is his for the taking.
Zelensky thinks Ukraine is an upstanding NATO member.
Click to expand...

The problem is actually a tad more complex but simple at the same time. Nobody wants the Western Ukraine, however it can't remain as is.

There isn't much Trump can offer, and U.S. is basically all in absent direct war.

(further, I showed where Zelensky is not saying he will enter into talks... he is still saying there are conditions just to talk, see Trump admin thread)

You have to play the hand you're dealt... in this case Trump can: 1.) continue to fund the war and support the Ukraine 2.) stop the funding and support for the war

There really isn't any obvious option here, see Trump's speech. Sounds like, "wtf do you want me to do about it?"
 
Last edited:
#82,965
#82,965
BeardedVol said:
Germany's history of invading other European countries goes much further back than 1939.

Germany was going to be the front line of any conflict with the USSR, which is why inviting them to NATO won out over fear of them being rearmed.

So no NATO was not initially formed to keep Nazi Germany from rising again.
Click to expand...
it was to stop Facisists
 
#82,967
#82,967
GiCudf4XIAAgVu5
 
#82,970
#82,970
This article lays the foundation for how the US can end the war. There is no pay wall on this one from the Washington Post, it's worth the read.

The time has come to transition Ukraine from an aid recipient to a defense consumer — just like many other U.S. friends and allies across Europe, Asia and the Middle East who purchase U.S. defense materiel. This is the only sustainable way to build a lasting defense cooperation between Washington and Kyiv.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/23/ukraine-defense-russia-us-taxpayers/
 
#82,971
#82,971
Gen. Jack Keane has suggested that the US obtain funding for the Ukrainians by 1) seizing the $300B in Russian assets that are frozen in western banks, 2) loan goods to Ukraine on lend lease basis, where the Ukrainian Government is obligated to repay the funds to the US with an interest rate, or 3) use existing Ukrainian assets, such as rare earth minerals, to secure payment for equipment.

I would prefer the first, where Russia pays for its own defeat, using the second and third options as fall-back positions.

Here is an interview with Jack. They were discussing a Washington Post article he co-wrote with Marc Theissen.



 
#82,972
#82,972
It's beginning. Trump is getting Saudi Arabia to increase oil production. It will hurt Russia and Iran at the same time. Trump will now turn the screws on our enemies.

 
#82,975
#82,975
Seems Trump was lying.

MUHAHAHAHAHAAAHHA

"On January 25, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed recent reports concerning the suspension of US external aid programs. Zelenskyy emphasized that US military assistance to Ukraine remains unaffected, according to Hromadske.

“I am aware of certain restrictions imposed on humanitarian programs for a 90-day period. There are many institutions worldwide that have previously received support from the US government. However, I can confirm that military aid to Ukraine has not been halted, and I remain focused on ensuring it continues. Thankfully, it has not been disrupted,” Zelenskyy stated.

This comment follows a decision by the US Department of State to pause certain external assistance programs for three months. While the Ukrainian president refrained from commenting directly on this decision, he reiterated that Ukraine’s military support from the United States remains intact.

Zelenskyy clarified that he does not manage or oversee humanitarian funds or programs tied to US external aid but assured that Ukraine’s critical military needs are being met."
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeardedVol
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top