War in Ukraine

[LSU-SIU]

My favorite part is you think that means something. lmao

iirc There was almost no people protesting iraq or afghanistan, I'm the only person that knew at the time saying how poorly this would all work out, although pre-existing my time here.

All the people evil has been voting for, more or less let Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and the Ukraine happen or made it happen.

 

[evillawyer]

You have been asked multiple times what you want to happen, meaning some type of specific action. I don't think you need to write a 10 pages about it, but 5 bullets that you want the bad Vance and bad Orange man to do. And explain how those those actions will have a direct impact to the final result.

Screaming at clouds is just going to mean a few Vance terms.

I'd arm Ukraine to to the teeth. Give them air support. Give them more missile defense. Open up intelligence sharing again.

 

[hog88]

I'd arm Ukraine to to the teeth. Give them air support. Give them more missile defense. Open up intelligence sharing again.

Air support as in US planes and pilots?

 

[C-south]

Ukraine hasn't aske for US troops to come and fight Russia for them, they've only asked for the weapons do so, and to not have restrictions put on the usage of those weapons.

That's the other choice.

Why is it our “responsibility” to indefinitely provide it?

 

[BeardedVol]

Why is it our “responsibility” to indefinitely provide it?

Because we forced Ukraine to give up a nuclear arsenal along with long range bombers and missiles in order to comply with the Budapest Memorandum.

 

[C-south]

Because we forced Ukraine to give up a nuclear arsenal along with long range bombers and missiles in order to comply with the Budapest Memorandum.

Sounds like they get pushed around quite a bit.

 

[BeardedVol]

Sounds like they get pushed around quite a bit.

Didn't pay attention to the news much in the late 80s or early 90s did you?

 

[C-south]

Didn't pay attention to the news much in the late 80s or early 90s did you?

Probably not

 

[Ritzwatch]

Because we forced Ukraine to give up a nuclear arsenal along with long range bombers and missiles in order to comply with the Budapest Memorandum.

The Budapest Memorandum is about the closest the Ukrainian war hawks come to making a cogent argument for more support, but saying we “forced” them into giving up nukes is a bit of stretch.

Ukraine stated they would give up nukes a few years earlier when they sought international recognition after the collapse of the USSR. The Memorandum was just an extension of their earlier commitment.

There were other nations that signed the Memo, or later provided Ukraine assurances of support.

What has been the total US share of international support for Ukraine, +50% ? It is time for the EU and UK to step up.

Imagine what we could do here in the US if we didn’t have to pay for the military security of the world.

 

[BeardedVol]

The Budapest Memorandum is about the closest the Ukrainian war hawks come to making a cogent argument for more support, but saying we “forced” them into giving up nukes is a bit of stretch.

Ukraine stated they would give up nukes a few years earlier when they sought international recognition after the collapse of the USSR. The Memorandum was just an extension of their earlier commitment.

There were other nations that signed the Memo, or later provided Ukraine assurances of support.

What has been the total US share of international support for Ukraine, +50% ? It is time for the EU and UK to step up.

Imagine what we could do here in the US if we didn’t have to pay for the military security of the world.

Lol, "Ukraine war hawks", is that what believing that a country has the right to defend themselves from a foreign invader makes me? I guess we can lump you in with the other cowards on this board who'd be first in line to surrender if we were invaded. You'll have poor company in that group, but you won't be alone.

Don't you MAGAs love transactional diplomacy? Ukraine gave up billions in weaponry, and nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurances that their sovereignty would be maintained. If we not longer want to comply with the agreement, we should reimburse them for their material losses, that we did force upon them, in order to comply.

 

[just bob]

Lol, "Ukraine war hawks", is that what believing that a country has the right to defend themselves from a foreign invader makes me? I guess we can lump you in with the other cowards on this board who'd be first in line to surrender if we were invaded. You'll have poor company in that group, but you won't be alone.

Don't you MAGAs love transactional diplomacy? Ukraine gave up billions in weaponry, and nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurances that their sovereignty would be maintained. If we not longer want to comply with the agreement, we should reimburse them for their material losses, that we did force upon them, in order to comply.

You say this while not putting your money where your mouth is.

 

[Ritzwatch]

Lol, "Ukraine war hawks", is that what believing that a country has the right to defend themselves from a foreign invader makes me?

No, the fact that you think the US should pay for the defense Ukraine makes you a war hawk.

I totally believe Ukraine has the right to defend themselves, and I hope they prevail against their invaders, I just don’t want to fund it.

I have said this many times; you are just too dense to process that.

I guess we can lump you in with the other cowards on this board who'd be first in line to surrender if we were invaded.

Guess again.

You'll have poor company in that group, but you won't be alone.

If I am counting on you, I would indeed be alone, but at least I wouldn’t have poor company.

Don't you MAGAs love transactional diplomacy?

Don’t know who you mean by “you MAGAs.”
Don’t even know what you mean by “MAGA.”
Feel free to enlighten me. All you got from me on this is that I don’t think we should fund Ukraine’s war.

Ukraine gave up billions in weaponry, and nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurances that their sovereignty would be maintained.

Sounds like the Ukraine has a history of poor decision making.

Ukraine said in 1990 that they would not have nukes. That was before the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. I can further explain how calendars work if you really need me to.

If we not longer want to comply with the agreement, we should reimburse them for their material losses, that we did force upon them, in order to comply.

Pretty sure the debt forgiveness, nuclear reactor supplies and $160 billion+ that we have already provided is plenty in reimbursement.

Sorry your Eastern European masters didn’t work out a better agreement with stronger security guarantees from President Clinton; I know he has said he regrets it, too

And now, a preview of whatever balderdash you will fire off in response:

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

For the mouth breathers who don't want to take the time to do anything themselves...



This is what I can find in just a couple of minutes looking...

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'd arm Ukraine to to the teeth. Give them air support. Give them more missile defense. Open up intelligence sharing again.

The Ukraine has already been giving them all available system evil, the production war was lost. Listen to vance, the weapons storage is gone. What weapon systems weren't they being given?

They lost and the West was already arming them to the teeth.

Give them air support.

I don't know what this means, you mean U.S. air support? So, U.S. planes take off from Europe and the U.S. and send bombs/missiles onto Russia?

Give them more missile defense.

These are basically gone, see comments from the U.S. and other countries... but even if they were not gone... the Ukraine lost will being supplied with these systems. Russia fighters are not all over the Ukraine, they basically stay behind the line even today.

Let's say all of that is given to them even if it doesn't exist, how long until you project the war will end? How many men will the Ukraine require to obtain that end vs the reality of how many they have? How much money are you talking about each year to reach that successful end?

 

[LouderVol]

See @just bob , here's a prime example of the Dalton creating a false choice fallacy, to try and justify his demands that Ukraine surrender to Russia.

the false choice fallacy is exactly what you rely on when you say people on this forum are against self defense.

you present it as:
total support for Ukraine, winning is the only option allowable, with no upward limit,.
or
wants Ukraine to lose/doesn't believe in self defense.

you should get with @luthervol and learn about continuums. because those aren't the only two opinions people have presented here. you just falsely equivalate down to those two.

 

[HeuperDrive]

For the mouth breathers who don't want to take the time to do anything themselves...



This is what I can find in just a couple of minutes looking...

when I want an unbiased opinion on this war, I get it from the guy named Spetznaz

 

[LouderVol]

For the mouth breathers who don't want to take the time to do anything themselves...



This is what I can find in just a couple of minutes looking...

1. yes it is happening in Russia. Its long been accepted that Russia was 'recruiting" from prison. there is a reason they had to shut down their borders, and have consistently expanded the service requirements. its not because the russians have such plethora of volunteers they needed something to do with them. the russians have been arresting people for the sole purpose of throwing them onto the front line from the very start.
2. if it wasn't happening why is Russia using North Koreans on the front lines?
3. If it wasn't happening why did Russia have to demilitarize most of its border with NATO?
4. If it wasn't happening why did Russia have to renege on its deal to protect Armenia when Azerbaijan attacked them?
5. last I checked Russia's military is near 2.5 million, with another several million of reservists. you/the tweet are being intellectually dishonest to try and point to the size of Ukraine's military without acknowledging the size of the russians. as long as you are outnumbered the absolute size of their military is misleading.

 

[PKT_VOL]

when I want an unbiased opinion on this war, I get it from the guy named Spetznaz

If I recall correctly, he's a Nigerian guy living in Nigeria that is hopelessly trolling on social media all day for Russia.

 

[just bob]

If I recall correctly, he's a Nigerian guy living in Nigeria that is hopelessly trolling on social media all day for Russia.

Just a prince waiting on people to take him seriously to give out his millions.

 

[LouderVol]

Russia’s Birth Rate Plunges to 200-Year Low - The Moscow Times

Russia’s attempts to boost its flagging birth rate — through policies promoting “traditional values,” tighter abortion restrictions and officials’ encouragement of larger families — appear to be falling short, as the number of births has fallen to its lowest level in centuries.

www.themoscowtimes.com

No where else to really put this. But it's not just on the battlefield that Russia is losing people.

They have lost 120k people net just on birth vs death rate in 2025.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[BeardedVol]

Putin turning to the Uber\Lyft model for recruiting more meat waves.

 

[KB5252]

See @just bob , here's a prime example of the Dalton creating a false choice fallacy, to try and justify his demands that Ukraine surrender to Russia.

If Russia won't stop what are the other choices then?

 

[KB5252]

The scenes coming out of sumy are horrific. Too horrific to post. Eff mothereffin Putin. Eff Vance. Eff Trump. And eff the apologists on here that continue to defend those three.

"Have you even said thank you once?" Go eff a couch JD.

How is this Trump or Vance's fault? How can they stop this?