Wars, genocide, reparations, etc (split from recruiting forum)

[Orange.]

It is a contemputous phrase, historically....

What if the name were changed to the Washington Pale Faces for an equal number of years. They could pick an animal or something afterward.

 

[volinokc]

I don’t trust polls. The vast majority of native Americans I have ask thinks there is nothing wrong with the name at all. I don’t believe it’s close to 50-50.

some of you need to just drop this because it makes you sound foolish. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Come on out here and ask around and let me know what you hear.

 

[Weezer]

In late July 1945, the Indianapolis was sent on a high-speed journey to deliver cargo to US air base Tinian in the western Pacific. Nobody on board knew what the cargo was, including the personnel who guarded it round the clock.
It was later revealed that it carried the parts for atomic bombs which would later be dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima just a few days later.

On July 30, 1945, the Indianapolis was torpedoed and sunk by a Japanese submarine. From a crew of 1196 sailors and marines, 300 went down with their ship. Though around 900 men survived the initial sinking, many succumbed to shark attacks, dehydration and salt poisoning soon after. By the time rescue crews arrived, only 316 people could be saved.
The sinking of the USS Indianapolis marks the greatest loss of life at sea from a single ship in US Navy history. The echo of the devastating tragedy can still be felt today, with a campaign in 2001 successfully lobbying for the exoneration of the captain, Charles B. McVay III, who had been blamed for the sinking of the ship.

July 30, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a joint resolution from Congress making In God We Trust the national motto.

 

[Jackcrevol]

July 30, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a joint resolution from Congress making In God We Trust the national motto.

He also developed, or, was instrumental in my use of the f bomb - daily in my work commutes.

 

[peaygolf]

July 30, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a joint resolution from Congress making In God We Trust the national motto.

I saw that one too. We "forget" that slogan way too often.

 

[bignewt]

July 30, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a joint resolution from Congress making In God We Trust the national motto.

So the government thought ok if we are going to start another unnecessary war that kills our best for greedy reasons we need to step up the faith based propaganda...

And it worked...till 1975.

 

[Rishvol]

So the government thought ok if we are going to start another unnecessary war that kills our best for greedy reasons we need to step up the faith based propaganda...

And it worked...till 1975.

And it's funny how those same people started what 5 different wars in the 2000s and are the (probably) most greedy and corrupt legislative branch this country has ever seen

 

[bignewt]

And it's funny how those same people started what 5 different wars in the 2000s and are the (probably) most greedy and corrupt legislative branch this country has ever seen

The merchants of war bought our government after WW II. Hey you created us, now you gotta feed us!

 

[Weezer]

So the government thought ok if we are going to start another unnecessary war that kills our best for greedy reasons we need to step up the faith based propaganda...

And it worked...till 1975.

Figured that would trigger someone.

Every war since WWII has been unnecessary. But I really don't think this was an example of "faith based" propaganda so much as it was a sign of the times. The horrors of WWII left a lasting impression on society.

 

[bignewt]

Figured that would trigger someone.

Every war since WWII has been unnecessary. But I really don't think this was an example of "faith based" propaganda so much as it was a sign of the times. The horrors of WWII left a lasting impression on society.

Not for long, Korean war started five years later based on the assumption we had "God" on our side against the evil communists thousands of miles away. It was very much propaganda.

 

[MarcoVol]

July 30, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a joint resolution from Congress making In God We Trust the national motto.

And gave the biggest business in America unmatched marketing

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I don’t trust polls. The vast majority of native Americans I have ask thinks there is nothing wrong with the name at all. I don’t believe it’s close to 50-50.

The Redskins name is the only one that ever made me cringe. Cleveland changing their name to the Guardians was stupid.

 

[drvenner]

I don’t trust polls. The vast majority of native Americans I have ask thinks there is nothing wrong with the name at all. I don’t believe it’s close to 50-50.

I am afraid you would be wrong, friend.

 

[drvenner]

some of you need to just drop this because it makes you sound foolish. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Come on out here and ask around and let me know what you hear.

I agree with you. There is one notable exception - that being the Florida State Seminoles. But, they have done it the right way. They have a great relationship with the local groups and do everything in a way that honors the history instead of vice versa.

 

[Devo182]

I don’t trust polls.

...

The vast majority of native Americans I have ask thinks there is nothing wrong with the name at all. I don’t believe it’s close to 50-50.

Sorry but the irony was too juicy

Statistical and scientific polls vs...anecdotal evidence...c'mon. And do you ask Native Americans around the D.C. area? Of varying political and social leanings, ages, etc? Based on random polling? I mean, have you literally asked more than 100 folks? If not, it's nowhere close to being statistically significant...ie too low volume of data.

 

[ShelbourneVol]

That is supposed to refer to hawks?

Thanks for asking. Redtails was the nick name for the Tuskegee airman fighter pilot‘s in WWII. They painted the tails of their fighter planes red so B17 bomber pilots could better ID them in flight. One of their primary missions was to provide fighter escort for these B17’s during bombing missions over the European continent. Much decorated and admired by the B17 crews for their ability to stay on mission and not run off to shoot down German fighter planes, thereby leaving the B17 exposed.

 

[SSVol]

some of you need to just drop this because it makes you sound foolish. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Come on out here and ask around and let me know what you hear.

I don't disagree, but polls are routinely wrong or intentionally skewed to support a perspective or bias.

The bigger concern I have is that by eliminating Native American references (particularly respectful ones) it becomes easier to sweep their current and historical plight under the rug. Out of sight out of mind.

 

[volinokc]

I don't disagree, but polls are routinely wrong or intentionally skewed to support a perspective or bias.

The bigger concern I have is that by eliminating Native American references (particularly respectful ones) it becomes easier to sweep their current and historical plight under the rug. Out of sight out of mind.

I don’t think you can eliminate Native references when there is still a fairly healthy population of different native cultures in the Americas. But that’s the very issue—these caricatures tend to vaporize reality in favor of stereotypes. It’s convenient to blame an overreacting woke mob because it keeps one from doing the hard work of critically examining their own biases.

The problem is stereotypes don’t accomplish the goal you lay out. They diminish and compress a rich and complex history of diverse cultures into a single caricature, and distract from the continuing existence of these cultures.

We have to ignore the Hollywood stereotypes of all cultures, but if you want a pop culture reference relevant to this topic, check out Reservation Dogs. The way they mock the “warrior” stereotype from within is brilliant. With humor the writers reveal the absolute absurdity of it.

And if you really want to dig deep, schedule a trip to OKC and check out the First Americans Museum:

FAM – First Americans Museum

Remember when Tennessee fans were up in arms over ESPN’s mockery of us as a bunch of dumb hillbillies?

 

[bignewt]

I don’t think you can eliminate Native references when there is still a fairly healthy population of different native cultures in the Americas. But that’s the very issue—these caricatures tend to vaporize reality in favor of stereotypes. It’s convenient to blame an overreacting woke mob because it keeps one from doing the hard work of critically examining their own biases.

The problem is stereotypes don’t accomplish the goal you lay out. They diminish and compress a rich and complex history of diverse cultures into a single caricature, and distract from the continuing existence of these cultures.

We have to ignore the Hollywood stereotypes of all cultures, but if you want a pop culture reference relevant to this topic, check out Reservation Dogs. The way they mock the “warrior” stereotype from within is brilliant. With humor the writers reveal the absolute absurdity of it.

And if you really want to dig deep, schedule a trip to OKC and check out the First Americans Museum:

FAM – First Americans Museum

Remember when Tennessee fans were up in arms over ESPN’s mockery of us as a bunch of dumb hillbillies?

Well said. There is a reason native Americans were driven against their will to Oklahoma as it is a god forsaken place.

Every decent human in their heart of hearts has always known "redskins" was derogatory and ugly. Unfortunately Natives have such a small voice for change.

Reservation Dogs is an amazing show by the way everyone should watch it. It's just good.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I don’t think you can eliminate Native references when there is still a fairly healthy population of different native cultures in the Americas. But that’s the very issue—these caricatures tend to vaporize reality in favor of stereotypes. It’s convenient to blame an overreacting woke mob because it keeps one from doing the hard work of critically examining their own biases.

The problem is stereotypes don’t accomplish the goal you lay out. They diminish and compress a rich and complex history of diverse cultures into a single caricature, and distract from the continuing existence of these cultures.

We have to ignore the Hollywood stereotypes of all cultures, but if you want a pop culture reference relevant to this topic, check out Reservation Dogs. The way they mock the “warrior” stereotype from within is brilliant. With humor the writers reveal the absolute absurdity of it.

And if you really want to dig deep, schedule a trip to OKC and check out the First Americans Museum:

FAM – First Americans Museum

Remember when Tennessee fans were up in arms over ESPN’s mockery of us as a bunch of dumb hillbillies?

.

 

[SSVol]

I don’t think you can eliminate Native references when there is still a fairly healthy population of different native cultures in the Americas. But that’s the very issue—these caricatures tend to vaporize reality in favor of stereotypes. It’s convenient to blame an overreacting woke mob because it keeps one from doing the hard work of critically examining their own biases.

The problem is stereotypes don’t accomplish the goal you lay out. They diminish and compress a rich and complex history of diverse cultures into a single caricature, and distract from the continuing existence of these cultures.

We have to ignore the Hollywood stereotypes of all cultures, but if you want a pop culture reference relevant to this topic, check out Reservation Dogs. The way they mock the “warrior” stereotype from within is brilliant. With humor the writers reveal the absolute absurdity of it.

And if you really want to dig deep, schedule a trip to OKC and check out the First Americans Museum:

FAM – First Americans Museum

Remember when Tennessee fans were up in arms over ESPN’s mockery of us as a bunch of dumb hillbillies?

Obviously it is hard to represent entire cultures with a single image, but I wasn't talking about the dumb caricatures, only "respectful" ones. There will no doubt be disagreement about what is respectful, but once you go down the road of eliminating, you will ultimately remove them from the public consciousness, simply because so few of us interact with Native Americans on a routine basis. The running joke in East Tennessee about all of us being 1/32 Cherokee at least made us aware of the possibility, regardless of whether it was true or not. As that fades from public consciousness, so does the awareness.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Just saying that we have to be careful that such efforts don't bleed over into indifference.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Obviously it is hard to represent entire cultures with a single image, but I wasn't talking about the dumb caricatures, only "respectful" ones. There will no doubt be disagreement about what is respectful, but once you go down the road of eliminating, you will ultimately remove them from the public consciousness, simply because so few of us interact with Native Americans on a routine basis. The running joke in East Tennessee about all of us being 1/32 Cherokee at least made us aware of the possibility, regardless of whether it was true or not. As that fades from public consciousness, so does the awareness.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Just saying that we have to be careful that such efforts don't bleed over into indifference.

My great great grandmother was a full blooded Cherokee...I think that is 1/32nd....I am also 1% African...so...

 

[SweetasSoda]

A poll by the Washington Post in 2016 reported that 90% of Native Americans didn't find the name Redskins offensive. Granted that was before our society was told to look for ways to be offended. Are both polls accurate? It's hard to know the true numbers when you poll less than 0.001% of a specific demographic.

Thought I had heard that somewhere but couldn’t remember where. I’m sure some do find it offensive, and some don’t care. I’m also sure you’re right about people being trained to be offended. And polls are not always right. Wish they would have let the Native Americans in the area come up with a name they wanted to represent them

 

[volinokc]

Obviously it is hard to represent entire cultures with a single image, but I wasn't talking about the dumb caricatures, only "respectful" ones. There will no doubt be disagreement about what is respectful, but once you go down the road of eliminating, you will ultimately remove them from the public consciousness, simply because so few of us interact with Native Americans on a routine basis. The running joke in East Tennessee about all of us being 1/32 Cherokee at least made us aware of the possibility, regardless of whether it was true or not. As that fades from public consciousness, so does the awareness.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Just saying that we have to be careful that such efforts don't bleed over into indifference.

I respect that. I doubt many of us on here are actually in a good place to weigh in on this, including me.

I’m one of those that has a “Cherokee great-grandparent.” But I was not raised in that culture so I have no place to speak for it. But trust me, they are not indifferent and are trying to make themselves heard. My son played in a tournament this weekend put on by the NBA player, Lindsey Waters III. He is a proud NA and wants to promote his culture in productive ways. There was a massive native representation. Some of the team names:

Ho-chunk
OK Tribez
Unconquered
Warchiefs
4 Nations

And those were the overt ones. I guess my point is there is no indifference within their community. They would love to have a conversation that goes well beyond naming a franchise.
Also, the merch was pretty cool.

 

[NochNoch]

A poll by the Washington Post in 2016 reported that 90% of Native Americans didn't find the name Redskins offensive. Granted that was before our society was told to look for ways to be offended. Are both polls accurate? It's hard to know the true numbers when you poll less than 0.001% of a specific demographic.

It’s far from an open and shut case either way, there are plenty of Native Americans who were actually more than ok with the name, but that Wash Post survey was absolutely destroyed by just about every tribe in the country after it was published