Wasted First Downs

[fossilfiction]

Wasted first two quarters is more like it.

 

[Hank Bukowski]

OK, does anybody understand this scenario any better than I do?

Example: Sampson breaks a 25 yard run...first down...offense hurries to the line for first down play...identical handoff (to a now-gassed runner) straight into a wall with no push...2nd and 10 upcoming.

It seems we do this almost every time a running back breaks a long run. I guess the reasoning is...the defense cannot reset into a different formation, so it should be there again? Or the running back is hot, so keep feeding him?

It just seems like, almost every time...you give the ball RIGHT BACK to a tailback who is now gassed after a long run...and the resulting play is a wasted down.

Does anybody else scratch your head when you see this?

Yes. To me, it’s almost to the point that whenever Sampson lines up in the backfield the entire defense knows the ball’s going to him off-tackle. He sometimes gets stuffed for no gain. But, incredibly, he often still manages to fight for 3-4 yards. Again, kudos and fireworks to our O-line for our running game this year.

 

[37620VOL]

After big gainers by Sampson I'd like to see Nico pull it more often.

 

[BruisedOrange]

If we actually do run the same play, it probably means they rushed to the LOS looking to exploit someone in the D backfield being out of position (not a called play, but QB and receivers recognizing the opportunity and routing accordingly), and if that's not there, everyone understands that the previous play is the automatic audible. That would make sense to me, since it wouldn't require any input from the sideline, or anything other than a "revert to audible" signal from the QB.

There's also the question of: just because the RB takes the ball and even runs into the same hole, was it really the same play?

You would need to compare the formation, any motion, the blocking... there could be a lot of differences either in substance or in disguises. And then, was it run against the same defensive play call?

But with this offensive brain trust, I think we can be sure that there's a specific purpose in every play--and certainly more than just "mixing it up" and hoping. If they aren't anticipating big results out of a play, then it is serving to set up another play later in the game that has big gain potential.
IMHO

 

[jwells]

If we actually do run the same play, it probably means they rushed to the LOS looking to exploit someone in the D backfield being out of position (not a called play, but QB and receivers recognizing the opportunity and routing accordingly), and if that's not there, everyone understands that the previous play is the automatic audible. That would make sense to me, since it wouldn't require any input from the sideline, or anything other than a "revert to audible" signal from the QB.

There's also the question of: just because the RB takes the ball and even runs into the same hole, was it really the same play?

You would need to compare the formation, any motion, the blocking... there could be a lot of differences either in substance or in disguises. And then, was it run against the same defensive play call?

But with this offensive brain trust, I think we can be sure that there's a specific purpose in every play--and certainly more than just "mixing it up" and hoping. If they aren't anticipating big results out of a play, then it is serving to set up another play later in the game that has big gain potential.
IMHO

I think you're correct in your questioning. "We run the same thing every play" is so lazy. It doesn't account for blocking or what the defense is doing. They see the RB get the ball and assume it's just the same. A staff that schemes open guys like they do isn't so stupid as to just run the same old play over and over and over. You do, however, see them set up other plays later by running a play a few times. Give the same look then pop one over the top.

 

[JohnnyJava]

OK, does anybody understand this scenario any better than I do?

Example: Sampson breaks a 25 yard run...first down...offense hurries to the line for first down play...identical handoff (to a now-gassed runner) straight into a wall with no push...2nd and 10 upcoming.

It seems we do this almost every time a running back breaks a long run. I guess the reasoning is...the defense cannot reset into a different formation, so it should be there again? Or the running back is hot, so keep feeding him?

It just seems like, almost every time...you give the ball RIGHT BACK to a tailback who is now gassed after a long run...and the resulting play is a wasted down.

Does anybody else scratch your head when you see this?

I went through game logs play by play and did not find evidence of this. This season, on runs of 20 yards or more where the next play is rushed and given to the same runner, we have gains of 2,4, and 5 yards. Expanding this to runs of between 10-19 yards (which doesnt seem to fit your criteria), yields runs of 4,3,1 TD, 3, 8*,3*, 0, 5*, 0* where the * indicates plays run more than 30 seconds after the preceding play (which doesn’t seem to fit your criteria). Usually the play following a big run, especially if the play is rushed, is a pass attempt. I think you are perceiving something which isn’t really happening.

 

[SteensVol]

I have felt the same thing as original poster. But there are other factual arguments posted here that say it is more of a perception issue. However, I think it could be better if for exapmle if we see a 15 yard run by Sampson followed by a 7 yd dig followed by a qb keeper followed by a quick screen followed by a go route. Just try to mix it up a bit more. It seems we sometimes get predictable. Just track it and mix passes with 1st down and runs on third sometimes. I mean there must be reason we are stonewalled at times on the runs - when we have excellent ability to run it and other times it is like a pass only down and rushers pin their ears back.

 

[I4Vols]

I remember that Arky ending well. Henry carried 11 straight times and he was like a man possessed. It was just give me the ball and get out of my way. One of most amazing finishes.

Great running back... but I can only dream seeing that OLine or equivalent this year protecting Nico and opening running lanes...

 

[Vol865]

Would you rather them go tempo after a negative play? That's how the offense works. The goal is to get a big play so you can push the tempo. Hurry up offenses very often will run the same play back to back because you can snap the ball quicker if you're not changing plays. Pop a run, get another 3-4 yd run, take a shot.

 

[EZE]

A lot of obvious coaching geniuses here on VN. I can’t understand why they are employed in other fields…

Can anyone help me out?