We have 2.5 decent SEC players right now

#1
zjcvols

zjcvols

"On a Tennessee Saturday night."
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#1
Maymon
Golden
McRae (when he decides to show up)

Those are the only players that would play for the top four teams in the SEC, and even then those guys wouldn't play for Kentucky.

Richardson, Yemi, and Wes have potential, but they shouldn't be getting big minutes in SEC play right now, but have to.

Look, I get it. It's frustrating. I was frustrated last night. I loved when we were getting 20 wins a year. And I believe we will get there. But we just don't have the talent. We have 2 consistent decent SEC type players, and you want to win 20 games? Guys, you are asking for a hell of a lot.

We have no basketball IQ. This doesn't help at all. Just because rivals says they were high ranking players, doesn't mean they should have been high ranking players. I'll said it in another thread. Do you really think Renaldo Woolridge, Cam Tatum, and Kenny Hall are four star players? Because they aren't.

If we are having the same problems in year two and year three, then yes, it would be time to get mad. Right now, it's time to be patient. It's like in 2010 with Dooley. You just take what you can get right now, because this roster is just bad. You can't put any blame on the coaching staff. The thing to look for is competitiveness and improvement throughout the year. That's all you can ask for right now.
 
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#5
#5
I agree. Don't book any NCAA tournament flights or watch for NIT games to be hosted in Knoxville because it's not happening. In fact, instead of being so concerned about wins or loses, understand that we are going to be far more less talented than a lot of teams we play. Now is a good time to watch for player development, respect effort, and watch for the way Martin coaches.
 
#6
#6
zjcvols said:
I actually agree. I think he's a decent player, but the 32-20 Memphis game was an aberration because Hall couldn't play and Black was in foul trouble.
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Very limited offensively. Wants to play face up but isn't quick enough and no threat to pull it on you from any range Isn't big enough to back down. Just isn't a real offensive option.
 
#7
#7
BigPapaVol said:
Very limited offensively. Wants to play face up but isn't quick enough and no threat to pull it on you from any range Isn't big enough to back down. Just isn't a real offensive option.
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I think he should get more touches inside because he's a pretty decent passer, and can use his body to score, but I agree that he isn't by any means a consistent 17-8 guy.

What you think of Martin and the job he's doing so far? Right now, I think it's hard to tell, but I think it's okay at this point.
 
#8
#8
zjcvols said:
I think he should get more touches inside because he's a pretty decent passer, and can use his body to score, but I agree that he isn't by any means a consistent 17-8 guy.

What you think of Martin and the job he's doing so far? Right now, I think it's hard to tell, but I think it's okay at this point.
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Hard to tell if the defensive and rebounding effort is roster or coaching. I certainly don't think these players are suited to his style.
 
#9
#9
Sorry. I don't see McRae ever adding anything to this team.
He'll be riding the pine in February.
Should be showing signs by now.
He's regressed to a catch and shoot guy that contributes little or nothing on defense.
 
#10
#10
calban said:
Sorry. I don't see McRae ever adding anything to this team.
He'll be riding the pine in February.
Should be showing signs by now.
He's regressed to a catch and shoot guy that contributes little or nothing on defense.
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I still have faith in him.

He's basically a freshman and has a lot of growing to do. He would have transferred if Bruce wasn't let go and didn't like CCM.

We'll see.
 
#11
#11
BigPapaVol said:
Hard to tell if the defensive and rebounding effort is roster or coaching. I certainly don't think these players are suited to his style.
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Another thing.

All these guys are run and gun offense players, which Martin doesn't want. He wants smart, half-court players.
 
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#12
#12
zjcvols said:
I actually agree. I think he's a decent player, but the 32-20 Memphis game was an aberration because Hall couldn't play and Black was in foul trouble.
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I would love to have seen Maymon - Maui -vs- Black - last night. Nice matchup!
 
#13
#13
zjcvols said:
Another thing.

All these guys are run and gun offense players, which Martin doesn't want. He wants smart, half-court players.
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He also needs a mature approach from players with his quiet style. Some of these guys need freakig shock collars.
 
#15
#15
BigPapaVol said:
He also needs a mature approach from players with his quiet style. Some of these guys need freakig shock collars.
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I wish people understand this team would have sucked with or without Bruce. Doesn't matter what coach we brought in.
 
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#16
#16
I agree that we lack a great deal of talent. With that said, I'm not so sure Martin will ever get us there (to 20+ wins), as you stated ZJC. I'm not even sure you really think he will. You and I both hope he does, but I haven't seen anything to prove that he will. Believing and hoping are two different things I'm afraid. There just isn't any tangible evidence suggesting that his coaching will ever be in that elite category. That's certainly not to say he can't get it done. Getting Stokes is a step in the right direction, but Paul Hewitt had no problem getting stud talent at Georgia Tech. He just couldn't get out of his own way as a coach.
 
#18
#18
cncchris33 said:
I agree that we lack a great deal of talent. With that said, I'm not so sure Martin will ever get us there (to 20+ wins), as you stated ZJC. I'm not even sure you really think he will. You and I both hope he does, but I haven't seen anything to prove that he will. Believing and hoping are two different things I'm afraid. There just isn't any tangible evidence suggesting that his coaching will ever be in that elite category. That's certainly not to say he can't get it done. Getting Stokes is a step in the right direction, but Paul Hewitt had no problem getting stud talent at Georgia Tech. He just couldn't get out of his own way as a coach.
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I actually do believe he will get us there. And by the way, I have no problem if that's how you feel. It's actually a reasonable post (unlike the other 80% of clowns that come over just for losses).

If you remember at Mo. State, his first year was God awful. They went 11-20. It was bad. Then they won 24 games the next year.

He's done a decent job this year. I'm going to give him 2013-2014 to see if he's the guy. It'll be mostly his players, and his style will be implemented, not too mention how he wants the program.
 
#19
#19
BigPapaVol said:
Martin and Hewitt in the same combo is worthy of banishment.
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Just using Hewitt as an example of someone who recruited great talent, but couldn't coach it. I could have used Sidney Lowe, Mark Gottfried, Josh Pastner, etc.
 
#20
#20
I'm just not sure that Coach Martin is coaching to this team's strengths. For example, we play a ton of man-to-man, almost exclusively. However it's common knowledge that Golden and McBee are slow footed and Tatum is a lazy defender. Add in Hall's propensity to acquire early stupid fouls and it's a recipe for disaster. I don't mean to imply that playing zone would fix all of our defensive problems but it might mask some of them. The 1st defense every middle-schooler learns is zone. I'm sure Coach Martin could scheme up something in the middle of the season that the players could grasp.

On the offensive end there are similar issues. Way too many Vols have the greenlight to shoot 3pt shots. Woolridge jacks 2 of them a night. Maymon is good for 2-3 ill-advised long range shots. McRae is about like Meghan Simmons at times with early longrange efforts 5seconds into the shot clock. 95% of McThree's shots are from behind the arc, I suppose because he hit that shot against Kansas. For me, that's just frustrating. Seems like Martin could issue a simple order restricting certain players from taking those boneheaded shots.

Again, I was never expecting more than 13-wins this year given the talent on the team, regardless of the rampant optimism following the Maui tournament. I suspect that this team peaked in Maui. I'm still waiting to see improvement. Stokes can't get on the floor soon enough.
 
#21
#21
Voldemonium said:
I'm just not sure that Coach Martin is coaching to this team's strengths. For example, we play a ton of man-to-man, almost exclusively. However it's common knowledge that Golden and McBee are slow footed and Tatum is a lazy defender. Add in Hall's propensity to acquire early stupid fouls and it's a recipe for disaster. I don't mean to imply that playing zone would fix all of our defensive problems but it might mask some of them. The 1st defense every middle-schooler learns is zone. I'm sure Coach Martin could scheme up something in the middle of the season that the players could grasp.

On the offensive end there are similar issues. Way too many Vols have the greenlight to shoot 3pt shots. Woolridge jacks 2 of them a night. Maymon is good for 2-3 ill-advised long range shots. McRae is about like Meghan Simmons at times with early longrange efforts 5seconds into the shot clock. 95% of McThree's shots are from behind the arc, I suppose because he hit that shot against Kansas. For me, that's just frustrating. Seems like Martin could issue a simple order restricting certain players from taking those boneheaded shots.

Again, I was never expecting more than 13-wins this year given the talent on the team, regardless of the rampant optimism following the Maui tournament. I suspect that this team peaked in Maui. I'm still waiting to see improvement. Stokes can't get on the floor soon enough.
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Woolridge is shooting 38.5% from three. He's actually been knocking them down.

The problem is...we have no inside game. Maymon is okay, but far from Jared Sullinger. We also have no drivers. Tatum cannot get to the hole, and while McRae can, he has no confidence in his dribbling (aka Scotty Hopson disease). So he's kinda stuck.
 
#22
#22
Also, McBee is a straight three point shooter. He can't take the ball to the basket.
 
#23
#23
zjcvols said:
I actually do believe he will get us there. And by the way, I have no problem if that's how you feel. It's actually a reasonable post (unlike the other 80% of clowns that come over just for losses).

If you remember at Mo. State, his first year was God awful. They went 11-20. It was bad. Then they won 24 games the next year.

He's done a decent job this year. I'm going to give him 2013-2014 to see if he's the guy. It'll be mostly his players, and his style will be implemented, not too mention how he wants the program.
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It depends on your definition of "believe" I guess. I sure hope he does. I'm just not sure I believe he will yet. Faith being the belief in things unseen, I guess a better way of putting it is, you have a greater sense of faith in him than I do at this point.

I do agree he deserves the opportunity to put his stamp on the program and implement what he wants to reflect within the program. Only then will we be able to successfully judge him on the program he has built. Right now, it is fair to judge his coaching on the floor, but putting together a program is so much more than just that and takes more than 14 games.
 
#24
#24
cncchris33 said:
It depends on your definition of "believe" I guess. I sure hope he does. I'm just not sure I believe he will yet. Faith being the belief in things unseen, I guess a better way of putting it is, you have a greater sense of faith in him than I do at this point.

I do agree he deserves the opportunity to put his stamp on the program and implement what he wants to reflect within the program. Only then will we be able to successfully judge him on the program he has built. Right now, it is fair to judge his coaching on the floor, but putting together a program is so much more than just that and takes more than 14 games.
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I have the Mo. State job he did as belief. Now it's Mo State and not an SEC job, but I think that shows it's not a one year fix. Especially how different him and Bruce were.
 
#25
#25
It's really not fair to be down on any of the Vol's post players. Martin's offense is motion looking for an open 3. I'm not sure he has more than 2 plays in his play book that involves passing into the post. I'm not saying that he won't win using this strategy....but the post guys only score when they pick up offensive rebounds. We will never have a guy that will be a consistent scorer down low. If Stokes pans out, then he will do it on the perimeter or by driving to the basket.....not by plays set up for him with his back to the basket.
 
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