We Need Better Lawyers and a Set

#76
#76
BeardedVol said:
A simple FOI request from KnoxNews would have produced those if they existed, just like they did with Currie's text records.

Even if there were an email that from Plowman to Fulmer that said "Pruitt sucks, wish we could fire him", it still wouldn't matter in terms of whether or not his firing 'with cause' was legal, as long as there is conduct from direct or indirect reports that does or 'would likely lead to' NCAA Level I/II violations, which according to the NCAA rep setting in on the interviews during the investigation, there were.

Pruitt is not going to be able to prove that UT manufactured a reason to fire him, if the NCAA says "Yes, Felton and Niedermeyer committed infractions".
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Pruitt doesn't need to win the case. I seem to recall you saying in the past that you work with legal cases so surely you understand that settlements aren't about who can win, they're about who thinks it's worth the ugliness and publicity.

Pruitt has a losing legal case. Granted. Pruitt also has, or thinks he has, enough dirt on enough powerful people to leverage a settlement.

It's not the first nor last time a company and/or rich people will pay off a jerk who knows too much dirt on the organization.
 
#77
#77
BeardedVol said:
Kansas fired Beaty without cause for 'sucking as a coach', which would have entitled him to his buyout, then tried to and open an investigation into NCAA violations after his termination, and retroactively fire him 'with cause', in order to not pay him his buyout.

The situations are 100% not even remotely similar.
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Are you trying to insert a fact here?
 
#78
#78
BeardedVol said:
Open court discovery for what? Pruitt can't just file a lawsuit and get discovery for information that doesn't pertain to the legality of his termination under his employment contract; that's not how discovery works.

His lawsuit, if there ever is one, is going to be on whether or not UT could fire him with cause under his contract, whether the language was legal and enforceable, not whether or not he cheated, or whether or not Fulmer knew of the cheating. Unless it comes back that none of the assistants actually were cheating, then he doesn't have much of a case given that the language in his contract is common to those at other schools, and those of previous head football coaches at UT.
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He absolutely would get ample opportunity to prove he was acting with knowledge and approval of his superiors.
 
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#79
#79
midtnvol2 said:
My statement was and still is STOP making STUPID decisions! Show me where in the sport of football you give unwarranted extensions and raises. In those extensions buyouts increased. When your performance is mediocre at best you shouldn’t be giving extensions until the last year of the contract period. Look at the mess those decisions brought us. By all means please keep making the same mistakes over and over. I prefer the admin to learn and stop doing things that continuously sets the school back and continues to embarrass the university. But yes track and field is doing great!
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CPF indeed compounded the bad hire with extensions for the coach, but like I said that is only part of the fabric of his tenure, and many want to only deal with the failure of football and totally ignore the progress in the rest of the department. He paid the price for that decision he made less than two weeks after taking over and tried to strengthen the coaches hand on the recruiting trail with the dreaded extension as the manifestation of a vote of confidence and Plowman followed his lead. Both had to lose their minds with the revelations that turned into the self reported infractions. I am glad they did not try and double down and bury as much as possible. We are only a few weeks into the Boyd/Plowman/White era so no trends are available. I personally like our chances for better, but not perfect decision processes.
 
#80
#80
hog88 said:
He absolutely would get ample opportunity to prove he was acting with knowledge and approval of his superiors.
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It's been right at 4 months since Jimmy Sexton announced that a Dallas law firm had been hired to bring down the wrath of God on the penny pinching, diabolical devils of UT. Does anyone know of any actual suits filed, court orders, subpoenas, motions, writs etc etc, ? Hard to seek out a remedy without getting the ball rolling.
 
#81
#81
onthehill71 said:
It's been right at 4 months since Jimmy Sexton announced that a Dallas law firm had been hired to bring down the wrath of God on the penny pinching, diabolical devils of UT. Does anyone know of any actual suits filed, court orders, subpoenas, motions, writs etc etc, ? Hard to seek out a remedy without getting the ball rolling.
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4 months is not a long time by any stretch of the imagination.
 
#82
#82
hog88 said:
He absolutely would get ample opportunity to prove he was acting with knowledge and approval of his superiors.
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Pruitt has always stated that he had no knowledge of the doings of his subordinates. He was not fired for cheating himself. He was fired because under his employment contract, he accepted responsibility for the actions of his direct and indirect reports lead or could lead to NCAA Level I/II infractions.

If he came out and said that he lied to the NCAA, that in fact he was aware of cheating, he'd have to prove that Fulmer, Plowman, and Boyd were all aware of it, and condoned it to even have a chance of getting a judge to agree that the contract clause for termination was misapplied.

If Felton and Niedermeyer didn't make that claim that Pruitt was in the know, in their defense, then I seriously doubt that Pruitt has evidence of such, and could make that claim of Fulmer and the administration himself.
 
#83
#83
BeardedVol said:
Pruitt has always stated that he had no knowledge of the doings of his subordinates. He was not fired for cheating himself. He was fired because under his employment contract, he accepted responsibility for the actions of his direct and indirect reports lead or could lead to NCAA Level I/II infractions.

If he came out and said that he lied to the NCAA, that in fact he was aware of cheating, he'd have to prove that Fulmer, Plowman, and Boyd were all aware of it, and condoned it to even have a chance of getting a judge to agree that the contract clause for termination was misapplied.

If Felton and Niedermeyer didn't make that claim that Pruitt was in the know, in their defense, then I seriously doubt that Pruitt has evidence of such, and could make that claim of Fulmer and the administration himself.
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Pruitt has not really shown himself as a particularly clever individual. However, he is the horse being ridden by a very clever jockey, Jimmy Sexton. He'll go where the jockey leads him. Jimmy does not want existing or potential clients to see an actual non-payment for cause no matter how clear the contract was or how egregious the impact is/was on a university. His bulletproof persona would be in jeopardy.
 
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#84
#84
onthehill71 said:
Arky told Bert to pound sand for not looking for a real job. We told Lyle thank you sir, can I please have another. Arky settled for nearly $4 m under the buy out agreement. Oh yes, Arky was able to find a coach despite being total cads about the compensation. Bert did not spill all of the Razorbacks deep secrets in retribution. Lyle smoked a big one and dared us to do something.
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I don’t understand what you are saying. Don’t get high before you post.
 
#85
#85
vettefool said:
I don’t understand what you are saying. Don’t get high before you post.
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I'm 71, dont get high, use appropriate English and speak of recent and ongoing events. This has been a pretty good thread. Some good insights, some believable speculation and a somwhat satirical and cynical viewpoint. Perhaps if you read the thread as it evolved from a discussion of the Lyle vs Beliema firing to a review of the Pruitt debacle the comments would come into focus for you.
 
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#86
#86
hog88 said:
Right now I don't see where the NCAA could hang "lack of institutional control" on us and that's the charge that brings the bowl bans and scholarship reductions. Open court with discovery could bring some long buried secrets to the surface.
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allowing it to happen, I'm not sure how long it went on, is an institutional control issue. there were processes, procedures and controls in place but someone ignored them for anything to happen. Compliance should have been on it.

As I said, I don't know how long it was going on but what if all 3 years Pruitt was here? That is a IC problem.
 
#87
#87
stevenrich2003 said:
This is the most damming thing I have ever seen the university do... I still scratch my head.
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Steele was hired the day prior to Plowman getting the lawyers report (she signed off on the Steele hire).

She has said publicly, that was the first she knew of details of the investigation (hard to understand how no one alerted her to "some" of the details).

By Monday, they were firing Pruitt.

Now, how Plowman had no idea when she hired Steele that she was about to fire Pruitt is quite difficult to believe. She also stated Fulmer and Boyd had no idea about what was going on.
 
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#88
#88
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
It's not about cheating, it's about trying to dispute the legality of the contract. It's about his attorney trying to prove UT knew and expected Pruitt to commit Level I/II infractions despite the contract language.

I believe he'll take the path of saying: this language in the contract was a sham because UT has been and is paying players in lots of sports and my superior knew it when he offered it. Then, he'll start asking people uncomfortable questions.

Sure, Pruitt might lose the lawsuit but the NCAA also might put down the framing hammer and pick up the 15lb sledge.

That's why we don't want this in court.
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So a guy who’s career trajectory presumably relies on his ability to keep his mouth shut about such things is going to prevail by becoming a snitch?

What happens when UT tells him to pound sand, he snitches, and the Court still finds he violated his contract?

If I had to guess, I’d guess it wouldn’t involve the snitch cashing a seven figure check from the State of Tennessee.
 
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#91
#91
We just need a couple of additional clauses to all coaching contracts for football.
1) any loss to Vanderbilt will allow firing for cause
2) Any period of three consecutive seasons without a win over Alabama, Georgia, or Florida will allow firing for cause
 
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#92
#92
I still can't believe that dude got another coaching job so quick. All be it in the NFL but still.
 
#95
#95
rocytop2624 said:
What's this story?
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Swain said on his show last week that “we made it right, because he was lied to.” So indeterminate sum, but covers what he “lost” from whatever Fulmer promised him in the offseason.
 
#96
#96
butchna said:
Swain said on his show last week that “we made it right, because he was lied to.” So indeterminate sum, but covers what he “lost” from whatever Fulmer promised him in the offseason.
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Probably from the pay cut he took that was supposed to be made up this coming year. Because of covid.
 
#97
#97
onthehill71 said:
Arky told Bert to pound sand for not looking for a real job. We told Lyle thank you sir, can I please have another. Arky settled for nearly $4 m under the buy out agreement. Oh yes, Arky was able to find a coach despite being total cads about the compensation. Bert did not spill all of the Razorbacks deep secrets in retribution. Lyle smoked a big one and dared us to do something.
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To be fair it’s not like Arky killed it either though. They hired Chad Morris who is somehow worse than Pruitt
 
#98
#98
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Missouri got a 1% of budget fine in several sports, docked bowl money, scholarship dings in several sports, visit dings in several sports...... and they cooperated, self reported, etc a SINGLE ACADEMIC TUTOR helping athletes academically, no money, just doing tests and such, in several sports that the staff knew nothing about (that the NCAA or Missouri could prove.)

We were apparently paying football players to come to the university, the admin found good evidence of it, reported it, fired 3 coaches with cause and multiple members of the recruiting staff.... meaning it was a known, pervasive issue that went unreported.... but people on VN think we're going to get nothing from the NCAA.

Given that Missouri got hammered for cooperating fully for a relatively meaningless, non staff sanctioned, academic issue involving ONE LONE TUTOR and we fired THREE COACHES with cause for actually paying players and our entire recruiting staff....... paying off Pruitt not to talk seems like a very very good move.
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The NCAA is pretty inconsistent with their punishments. Look at Ole Miss, they pretty much did the same as us but for longer and didn’t self report, yet they weren’t punished severely. He’ll look at LSU basketball they just keep avoiding any punishment despite clear and convincing evidence. The NCAA is a joke but it might work in our favor, or maybe burn us who knows
 
#99
#99
hog88 said:
4 months is not a long time by any stretch of the imagination.
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Make that a year..... no suits filed, no wrath of God, no blackmail paid. Looks like UT lawyers have not been fully trained to use UT dollars to support Jimmy Sexton's quest.
 
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