Welcome back

[Orange_Scooter]

Thanks bro. Makes me mad too that all these Debbie downers show up after the first loss. Where were thy earlier this year? Was that game ugly? Hell yeah, but you have to move on and not write the season off.

Good grief. You Sunshine Pumpers get your panties in a wad whenever Martin gets criticism. Get over it and accept he's a mediocre coach (at best). You want to talk about a delusional bunch of folks, just look at the prediction threads over the last couple of years. Tell me, how many predicted NIT busts? This coach has done absolutely nothing to prove the Debbie Downers wrong; and with the talent he has right now games like last night are absolutely inexcusable.

 

[clay1551]

Has Zo ever thought of implementing a 3/4 court trap and then drop back into a zone? I felt like this would've been very effective last night. Catch them off guard a little and switch back to man.

 

[BadJerry20]

A lineup of IMO

Barton 30/ DT 10
McRae 30/ Hubbs 10
Richardson 30/ Hubbs 5/ Moore 5
Maymon 20/ Moore 13/ Davis 7
Stokes 30/ Maymon 5/ Pops 5

I know that's kinda weird looking but that's what I'd like to see. I want Davis to get some PT, don't want Maymon getting 30 right now. All subject to change in a month of course.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I know that's kinda weird looking but that's what I'd like to see. I want Davis to get some PT, don't want Maymon getting 30 right now. All subject to change in a month of course.

BadJ, how many points do you think we would've beaten Xavier by if you and I had kissed the right ass, ditched our families, and played the political game enough to sit on that bench last night? I'd say 12-14. Up from the get go and don't look back. Big fella woulda been cray cray tired 5 minutes in. Early clearout pick and roll. Attack the rim early and often. Clearout pick and roll and pop. Aggressive and quickly. All day. They didn't do it once that I recall. Actually, Barton and #21 had one pick and roll early. I'd tell them if they ran any semblance of motion offense that they were sitting down.

 

[volbeast33]

Thanks bro. Makes me mad too that all these Debbie downers show up after the first loss. Where were thy earlier this year? Was that game ugly? Hell yeah, but you have to move on and not write the season off.

Just a guess but it could be bc there was no basketball going on a few months ago....most probably were here reading but not commenting.

 

[nunshalpass]

Well it was nice to see some unfamiliar faces on this board last night. Was I happy with the teams performance and some of the calls Martin made last night? No. But I'm not going to write the season off as failure just because we lost our first game, on the road.

-Barton looks like the best pg we have had since CJ. He started out slow in the1st half, but really picked it up in the 2nd IMO. Which is understandable considering this was his first game and it was on the road with his new team. 10 points 4 assist with 1 TO and 2 steals. His on ball defense is just what we needed at the pg position. Overall I give him an B+.

McRae: well he looked like McRae the first half and about the last 5 min of the 2nd half. We need him for every minute he plays. I know that they put a lot more pressure on him coming out of half time, but still that is no excuse. He needs the ball in his hand and needs to drive into the lane, because he is nearly unstoppable when he drives and will either score or get fouled. McRae and Randle will battle it out for SEC POY this year. Overall -A, he was our leading scorer with 23.

Josh Richardson- I do believe his shot is better. Coming out of halftime he scored back to back 3 pointers and got fouled shooting one as well. Scored our first 8 points back. I love his hustle and the way he drives into the lane. He is usually the best defender on the floor but IMO it was Barton last night. He had some good moments on D and some bad ones. Shot 4-7 from the field and 3-4 from the 3 line and had a huge 3 at the end of the game that almost brought us back. With 13 points 4 rebounds I give him a B.

Maymon: you can tell Maymon was frustrated. It is his first game back in over a year and he gets to come back to the worst rule change I've ever witnessed in college basketball. There is really no way him or Stokes will stay out of foul trouble this year. That not a knock on them because that's the was they play. Hard nosed defense and they like to use their body to move you around in the paint. They are wussyfying the game and I don't like it. Maymon started out pretty strong then got a couple questionable fouls. He rebound ok and had 10 boards. We need him and Stokes both in the game so they have to try to stay out of foul trouble, even though I don't see that happening. Overall I give him a C+ we need more out of our leader and I think he'll give it as the season goes. Also it's unacceptable for him to have 5 TO's!

Stokes: not much I can say here. Those early 2 fouls completely took him out of the game. This will be the game plan for every team. Get him in fouls trouble as quickly as you can. Stokes has got to get smart on D and position his body the right way and watch his hands. This was one of his worst games so far and I don't expect to see him play like he did again this season. Overall a can't see any way I give him a better grade than a D. He looked awful against that tall white boy. But like I said I don't think this will be the norm for him. Shake this game off and move on.

Hubbs- Not much I can say about him other than his shot wasn't falling and that he only got 12 minutes so never really got a chance to get going. There is a reason he isn't starting yet and most likely won't this season and that's because he isn't ready yet. He has to get better on D and get a little more fire in him. I think we'll see a lot of improvement in him this season and next year the team will be handed off to him from McRae. Overall a C- only because he didn't score a single point. I'm hoping after he gets a couple more games under his belt, that he'll be ready for B4A.

Armani Moore: why he only had 8 minutes I will never know. Moore needs at least 20 min a game. Idc where he gets it from but he needs to be on the court for at least half the game. His hustle is exactly what this team needs. Move him to the 4 when Maymon or Stokes is out idc as long as it's not the 1. Overall I'm not going to grade him because it would be faired since he got screwed out of minutes. Had a really nice steal btw.

Darius Thompson- I still think that he's going to be an hell of a pg for us. But still has a lot to work on. Had 2 steals and one lead to a nice break-a-way drive to the basket which he drew a foul which looked really nice. But he got to hit those 2 free throws. Overall I'll give him a C+ because he started the game on the road as a freshman, but really couldn't get the game going. He didn't have an assist but also didn't turn the ball over. I think it's clear that Barton is our starter as long as he is healthy.

Q- I like the way he hustles after lose balls and how he took a charge or two, but he really doesn't need more than maybe 5-10 minutes a game. His minutes should have went to Moore, but oh well. Not much to grade here.

Pops & Davis- rebounded alright but that's about it. We need a lot more out of our back up bigs. IMO we should go back to the 4 guard lineup when Stokes or Maymon is out, until these 2 improve. Davis has a lot of upside though

Cuonzo Martin- he did not have a good gameplan and his substitution pattern was awful. Also needs to learn to call time outs at the right time. Why he didn't play Moore more (lol) is my biggest question to him. Overall a C- he needs to make a lot better adjustments. I'm not ready to write him off like everyone else, but this is his year he really needs to get the ball rolling. 2-1 in B4A and a win vs WSU or UVA would be huge. I think we need to be 10-3 going into the SEC.

Overall I'll give this team a C- they started off terrible and went 7-19 from the line. You can't do that and expect to win a game. They have to attack the basket. They let a lot of us down and I expect to see them not play like that again.

Our fans on this board- overreacted just a little lol. I could have swore the sky was falling last night when I got on here. It was depressing and had to get off. Living in Kentucky idk which fan base was more unbearable to listen too last night SMH. I understand that it's alright to be mad at the team and Martin but let's be realistic here and understand that this was one game and it was our first game with our starting point guard back and it was on the road. Overall I'll give our fans a grade of this :crazy:

Hope to see some of you Negative Nancy's stick around once we get this train rolling! Go Vols!

"They are wussyfying the game and I don't like it." Agree 100%. The touch foul rule has gotta go. I don't think TV will put up with 2.5 hour games when they schedule for 2 hours.

"Our fans on this board- overreacted just a little lol." Understatement of the year IMO.

All-in-all first game jitters got us in the first half, defense played well, once we settled things looked better offensively though never quite in sync. I knew that would be a tough place to pull out a W but was still hoping for one. If not for the slow start I think we would have done it. Glad to have a road game against a quality opponent and in a hostile environment under our belt. The biggest disappointment other than the slow start was the inability to knock down free throws. We had been hitting them much better in the exhibitions, even Stokes and Maymon. Not sure what was up with that.

 

[Stoked]

BadJ, how many points do you think we would've beaten Xavier by if you and I had kissed the right ass, ditched our families, and played the political game enough to sit on that bench last night? I'd say 12-14. Up from the get go and don't look back. Big fella woulda been cray cray tired 5 minutes in. Early clearout pick and roll. Attack the rim early and often. Clearout pick and roll and pop. Aggressive and quickly. All day. They didn't do it once that I recall. Actually, Barton and #21 had one pick and roll early. I'd tell them if they ran any semblance of motion offense that they were sitting down.

There is a reason that he is our coach and that you're typing on a message board and it's not because of kissing ass or politics man. Give me a break. You think you're something because you're an high school coach or AD or whatever you are lmao.

 

[jahvol]

My favorite are the notorious football posters that come over here and call for Martins head. Haven't they learned by now?

(I, too, post on the football forum, I am aware. But at least I know what I'm talking about when it comes to basketball unlike some.)

 

[D.C. Vol]

There is a reason that he is our coach and that you're typing on a message board and it's not because of kissing ass or politics man. Give me a break. You think you're something because you're an high school coach or AD or whatever you are lmao.

Question for ya: Are you still stoked for 'Zo?

 

[Stoked]

Just a guess but it could be bc there was no basketball going on a few months ago....most probably were here reading but not commenting.

It's just annoying that they come on here when something negative happens. I've been on this board a long time. I was a reader before I created an account but I remember some of the so called "we want Pearl back" fans that wanted him gone when he lost, now they are praising him after our first loss. People either have bad memories or just chose to forget that memory. Pearl didn't have that huge of a following when he was here on this board and that's a fact.

 

[Stoked]

Question for ya: Are you still stoked for 'Zo?

Yes I am. Unlike you I'm reasonable and understand what Cuonzo was left with and it wasn't pretty. Any rational fan understands that it takes time to rebuild a team unless if you are one of the big boys (UK, Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc) I knew from the start that he needed 3 years to build up a roster. Could his recruiting have been better yes. But look at the roster he has put together. He's won some big games and he lost some questionable ones. He is 3-0 against one of our biggest rivals Florida. He put the largest beat down on UK to date.

Do I think we should of won last night yeah! For sure but we didn't and that's the game of basketball. I'm not going to call this season a failure or write the coach off just because he lost his season opener. That's ridiculous. He will have my support this whole year unless he doesn't make it to the tourney this year. If he doesn't then I think we should look in another direction and find someone that can take us there. But I don't think that will be the case. I think this game was a huge wake up call and you won't see them play like this the rest of the year. If I'm wrong I'll come on here and admit it but until then yeah I'm "stoked 4 zo"!

 

[D.C. Vol]

Yes I am. Unlike you I'm reasonable and understand what Cuonzo was left with and it wasn't pretty. Any rational fan understands that it takes time to rebuild a team unless if you are one of the big boys (UK, Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc) I knew from the start that he needed 3 years to build up a roster. Could his recruiting have been better yes. But look at the roster he has put together. He's won some big games and he lost so questionable ones. He is 3-0 against one of our biggest rivals Florida. He put the largest beast down on UK in history. But he starts out slow I can admit that.

Do I think we should of won last night yeah! For sure but we didn't and that's the game of basketball. I'm not going to call this season a failure or write the coach off just because he lost his season opener. That's ridiculous. He will have my support this whole year unless he doesn't make it to the tourney this year. If he doesn't then I think we should look in another direction and find someone that can take us there. But I don't think that will be the case. I think this game was a huge wake up call and you won't see them play like this the rest of the year. If I'm wrong I'll come on here and admit it but until then yeah I'm "stoked 4 zo"!

I may come off a bit brash....but I am reasonable when it comes to expectations. However, I'm a firm believer that if you haven't seen at least a modicum of improvement over the course of two years, then it is unlikely to expect any new real change. His recruiting hasn't been stellar, although this season he certainly fields a roster that is more than capable of producing in March. I'll say this again, if he fails to muster an NCAA appearance for the third consecutive year, the 'Zo has to go...

 

[Spartacavolus]

There is a reason that he is our coach and that you're typing on a message board and it's not because of kissing ass or politics man. Give me a break. You think you're something because you're an high school coach or AD or whatever you are lmao.

many reasons why in reality. I think I would've coached a better game last night regardless of my experience or lack thereof. So would many others. As I said before, if you don't think you could have as well since the coaching errors were so basic and obvious then its not my fault you don't have an understanding of the game. You can poke or prod at other's background or what have you but nothing I've said about the gameplan and strategy is really debatable. there are plenty of good basketball minds on here. Some cops. Some scientists. Some business owners. Some players. Some coaches. Some fans that have been watching basketball on all levels for 30-40 years. How the hell do you think coaches learn about basketball? They watch it.
As I said, my son would have as well and he's 10. I was at a middle school game last week and that coach would've beaten Xavier by 15. Not my fault you basically tatted a coaches name in your username. Be objective.

 

[Stoked]

many reasons why in reality. I think I would've coached a better game last night regardless of my experience or lack thereof. So would many others. As I said before, if you don't think you could have as well since the coaching errors were so basic and obvious then its not my fault you don't have an understanding of the game. You can poke or prod at other's background or what have you but nothing I've said about the gameplan and strategy is really debatable. there are plenty of good basketball minds on here. Some cops. Some scientists. Some business owners. Some players. Some coaches. Some fans that have been watching basketball on all levels for 30-40 years. How the hell do you think coaches learn about basketball? They watch it.
As I said, my son would have as well and he's 10. I was at a middle school game last week and that coach would've beaten Xavier by 15. Not my fault you basically tatted a coaches name in your username. Be objective.

Yeah it was an awful coaching job. I as a fan understand that and if he continues to coach the way he did last night then yeah I'll agree, and think he should be gone.

But you can't put this all on him. He didn't go 7-19 at the free throw line. He didn't start the game out 1-13 and miss all those shots and layups. If they would have shot 58% at the line which is still awful we would have won the game. That isn't coaching.

What I do have a problem with is that he didn't give Moore the minutes that he deserved. Also I don't agree with Barton not starting. I also don't think that Stein-whatever should have had the game he had. Maybe he overlooked him in his scouting report, but he should have made an in game adjustment. I usually respect everything you say and you do have a ton of basketball knowledge. But I think you are a little off this time.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Yeah it was an awful coaching job. I as a fan understand that and if he continues to coach the way he did last night then yeah I'll agree, and think he should be gone.

But you can't put this all on him. He didn't go 7-19 at the free throw line. He didn't start the game out 1-13 and miss all those shots and layups. If they would have shot 58% at the line which is still awful we would have won the game. That isn't coaching.

What I do have a problem with is that he didn't give Moore the minutes that he deserved. Also I don't agree with Barton not starting. I also don't think that Stein-whatever should have had the game he had. Maybe he overlooked him in his scouting report, but he should have made an in game adjustment. I usually respect everything you say and you do have a ton of basketball knowledge. But I think you are a little off this time.

Yet what you said in bold are 3 simple things that could've won that game, which in turn, means you could've won the game had you been sitting on the bench and made those same decisions. It's all hypothetical anyway man.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

I may come off a bit brash....but I am reasonable when it comes to expectations. However, I'm a firm believer that if you haven't seen at least a modicum of improvement over the course of two years, then it is unlikely to expect any new real change. His recruiting hasn't been stellar, although this season he certainly fields a roster that is more than capable of producing in March. I'll say this again, if he fails to muster an NCAA appearance for the third consecutive year, the 'Zo has to go...

First reasonable post ever. Congratulations.

 

[BadJerry20]

BadJ, how many points do you think we would've beaten Xavier by if you and I had kissed the right ass, ditched our families, and played the political game enough to sit on that bench last night? I'd say 12-14. Up from the get go and don't look back. Big fella woulda been tcray cray tired 5 minutes in. Early clearout pick and roll. Attack the rim early and often. Clearout pick and roll and pop. Aggressive and quickly. All day. They didn't do it once that I recall. Actually, Barton and #21 had one pick and roll early. I'd tell them if they ran any semblance of motion offense that they were sitting down.

Lol I agree, they should have been abusing that guy on the pick and roll. As you said clear out for Jordy and whoever the big guy was guarding, and attack attack attack. He would have been gasping for air, and been out of the game 5 minutes in. That's the most frustrating thing to me, we play to opponents strengths. You are playing a slow big man, you make him uncomfortable. I kept yelling for the pick and roll, which is the best offensive weapon in basketball if ran properly. IMO If I was playing a guy similar to that as a PG my eyes would have lit up.

 

[GLDunlap]

Thanks bro. Makes me mad too that all these Debbie downers show up after the first loss. Where were thy earlier this year? Was that game ugly? Hell yeah, but you have to move on and not write the season off.

Who cares where "they" were? Was it basketball season? What did "we" miss? Endless talk about how Maymon and Stokes would be unstoppable or how Hubbs would dominate? The Kevon Looney thread? All that really matters is what happens on the court in season. All other talk is just talk. I don't think many are writing off the season they are just frustrated by the way the teamed played and the way CCM coached. Every game is important especially with our schedule but CCM's teams always sleep walk until January. I for one was hoping this season would be different. Maybe it will be but last night they just looked clueless for the most part. Some will continue to blow smoke about how good Xavier is and how hard they are to beat at home but it's complete BS.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Lol I agree, they should have been abusing that guy on the pick and roll. As you said clear out for Jordy and whoever the big guy was guarding, and attack attack attack. He would have been gasping for air, and been out of the game 5 minutes in. That's the most frustrating thing to me, we play to opponents strengths. You are playing a slow big man, you make him uncomfortable. I kept yelling for the pick and roll, which is the best offensive weapon in basketball if ran properly. IMO If I was playing a guy similar to that as a PG my eyes would have lit up.

Like I said. Team would've had a blast playing like that as well by getting it to talented offensive players with good spacing or clearouts with picks that allows them to use their natural abilities and specific strengths to score.
We used to love seeing a big dude like that. Wouldn't make it passed midcourt after a few times down and back and sure wouldn't have time to stand still guarding a smaller man down on the block and not having to move for 25-30 seconds.

 

[OrangeBalls]

Like I said. Team would've had a blast playing like that as well by getting it to talented offensive players with good spacing or clearouts with picks that allows them to use their natural abilities and specific strengths to score.
We used to love seeing a big dude like that. Wouldn't make it passed midcourt after a few times down and back and sure wouldn't have time to stand still guarding a smaller man down on the block and not having to move for 25-30 seconds.

Bert mentioned on the radio how their center looked tired in the 2nd half. What did we do? Played into their hands. They played pretty bad without 2 starters and still won. That's what is galling.

 

[BadJerry20]

Like I said. Team would've had a blast playing like that as well by getting it to talented offensive players with good spacing or clearouts with picks that allows them to use their natural abilities and specific strengths to score.
We used to love seeing a big dude like that. Wouldn't make it passed midcourt after a few times down and back and sure wouldn't have time to stand still guarding a smaller man down on the block and not having to move for 25-30 seconds.

As I said before, I would have loved to have seen Barton, Jordy, Josh, Armani, and Maymon/Stokes playing together more. Press some, trap, then drop into a zone to help negate the size difference, that's a lot of length to play passing lanes as well. Then run after misses, hell and makes, make them take the pf out and play your game. Instead we bring in pops and again play to their strength.

 

[BadJerry20]

One more thing to what you said Sparty, about them having a blast playing that way. You know as well as I do if you are having fun, you play harder. Especially big men, get out in transition and get them some easy buckets or pick and roll and do the same, and suddenly they rebound harder and hustle more because they know they are going to be rewarded for it on the offensive end.

 

[Spartacavolus]

One more thing to what you said Sparty, about them having a blast playing that way. You know as well as I do if you are having fun, you play harder. Especially big men, get out in transition and get them some easy buckets or pick and roll and do the same, and suddenly they rebound harder and hustle more because they know they are going to be rewarded for it on the offensive end.

absolutely, and when players play instead of thinking they play better and with more energy. Another reason why I hated the timeouts. We got a little hop to us on a couple of occasions and it was just zapped. Stokes doesn't want to sit on the low block with his back to a bigger man. He wants to get up and down, or at least pin his man early as we push pace. McRae didn't come to UT to run a halfcourt offense and not run the floor.
When it comes down to it, CM is overcoaching and making errors while overcoaching. He should take a peek at Miami's coach to learn how to coach a team while letting them play and maximizing their various skill sets rather than forcing them into his sorry ass offensive scheme.

 

[BadJerry20]

absolutely, and when players play instead of thinking they play better and with more energy. Another reason why I hated the timeouts. We got a little hop to us on a couple of occasions and it was just zapped. Stokes doesn't want to sit on the low block with his back to a bigger man. He wants to get up and down, or at least pin his man early as we push pace. McRae didn't come to UT to run a halfcourt offense and not run the floor.
When it comes down to it, CM is overcoaching and making errors while overcoaching. He should take a peek at Miami's coach to learn how to coach a team while letting them play and maximizing their various skill sets rather than forcing them into his sorry ass offensive scheme.

Agreed 100%, But Zo doesn't seem like the type of guy to change his coaching philosophy and that worries me. I understand that's probably how he won at Missouri St, but he has horses now, he has to cut them loose. Excellent point on Coach Spo, and sometimes you have to change your coaching style to fit the personnel. Plus he recruits a certain type of player, long and athletic, yet he sticks with this bogged down offense. It's frustrating and confusing. You don't buy a Porsche so you can drive it in the slow lane.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Agreed 100%, But Zo doesn't seem like the type of guy to change his coaching philosophy and that worries me. I understand that's probably how he won at Missouri St, but he has horses now, he has to cut them loose. Excellent point on Coach Spo, and sometimes you have to change your coaching style to fit the personnel. Plus he recruits a certain type of player, long and athletic, yet he sticks with this bogged down offense. It's frustrating and confusing. You don't buy a Porsche so you can drive it in the slow lane.

I was actually talking about the UMiami coach. Can't spell his name. Players play hard, have some freedom, have a good time and light it up.