Welcome to College Football 2024!

[VOLINVONORE]

This is exactly the reasons Saban used when he testified before Congress yesterday concerning NIL needing some rules.

Who is Saban?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Kavanaugh is an idiot. He claimed the NCAA's business model wouldn't fly at any other industry in America. That is completely stupid remark as colleges are educational institutions and not in any way a conventional private business. And yet judges seem to think that doesn't matter--which to me defies logic. The players are full-time students, not employees--and they're getting a free college education worth upwards of $250,000 over 4 years. So this notion that they are put upon is absurd. What's also absurd is the notion that all these people are getting rich on the backs of the players. Stupid. The vast majority of every major's football revenues is reinvested in the athletic department and finances all the non-revenue sports--15 or more of them. No conventional business invests money annually in ventures guaranteed to lose money--which is what non-rev sports. The whole sport has gone stupid and "woke"--and generally hate that term. By the logical of current legal decisions, high-schools will have to start paying their players, too, as many high schools make so money off of their football and basketball programs. And get NIL out of recruiting--it is corrupt and stupid and not what college is supposed to be about. One problem is that fans are crazy and can't relate to the educational side of college because they didn't go to college themselves.

Any other judge on the Supreme Court could've disagreed, it's their actual job to render their differing opinions about these cases if they have one, but none did.

Since Alston, I believe EVERY Antitrust case the NCAA has seen has resulted in judges giving the benefit to the states opposing the NCAA basically saying "We think they're going to win their case so the NCAA can't limit transfers and can't police NIL."

Each of those is based directly on the same thing Kavanaugh said: the NCAA is in violation of Antitrust Law.

I can assure you Justice Kavanaugh knows more than we do about Antitrust and as a matter of fact both he and Justice Gorsuch laid out the legal tests leading to WHY they feel the NCAA is in violation.

You can Google the Harvard Law review of Alston for yourself or find any law review you want. All of them I've seen say: it's over for the student-athlete model and the NCAA.

I assume they're all idiots and you should be the NCAA's lead attorney, right?

 

[volfeeva]

Hope he hangs around till at least his first oil change before hitting the portal.

 

[BigOrangePhoenix]

Technically, it is not 'pay for play '. So therefore, they could still transfer, sit out a season, and still make NIL money. Right?

 

[jarhead]

You're living in the past man. College football as we once knew it is over, and it ain't ever coming back.

 

[volfan102455]

Kavanaugh is an idiot. He claimed the NCAA's business model wouldn't fly at any other industry in America. That is completely stupid remark as colleges are educational institutions and not in any way a conventional private business. And yet judges seem to think that doesn't matter--which to me defies logic. The players are full-time students, not employees--and they're getting a free college education worth upwards of $250,000 over 4 years. So this notion that they are put upon is absurd. What's also absurd is the notion that all these people are getting rich on the backs of the players. Stupid. The vast majority of every major's football revenues is reinvested in the athletic department and finances all the non-revenue sports--15 or more of them. No conventional business invests money annually in ventures guaranteed to lose money--which is what non-rev sports. The whole sport has gone stupid and "woke"--and generally hate that term. By the logical of current legal decisions, high-schools will have to start paying their players, too, as many high schools make so money off of their football and basketball programs. And get NIL out of recruiting--it is corrupt and stupid and not what college is supposed to be about. One problem is that fans are crazy and can't relate to the educational side of college because they didn't go to college themselves.

Agree.

The whole case that folks keep referring to was about the guideline that an athlete could not make money on their own due to an NCAA rule. The NCAA is not who has the money. It is the universities that have the money and those are educational institutions many of which are funded by the state out of taxes paid in by those who live in the state. The excess dollars made by the universities either fund additional sports or upgrades to facilities.

 

[volfan102455]

Kavanaugh actually has a strong legal position. Illegal restraint of trade applies to all sectors. The schools make tens of millions on football every year.l, on the athletes backs. The SCOTUS thing is the polar opposite of ",woke". It is pro business and pro capitalism.

Money they invest back into other sports to offer more the chance for an education. When universities start dropping other sports there will be different kind of law suits that happen.

 

[volfan102455]

Saban said out loud what most college coaches are thinking but cannot say. He is in a position where he now can.

 

[GAVol]

Kavanaugh is an idiot.

Pssst…. It was a 9-0 decision.

 

[tennesseeduke]

You keep making this claim that college football will be gone in a few years? On what basis?

Gone as we know it. Boxing was king for decades and they messed with it, now hardly any body watches. NASCAR was awesome for years then it changed, now no one gives a $h!t. Baseball is on a major downside. College football was awesome now not so much with NIL and transfer portal BS!

 

[tennesseeduke]

You keep making this claim that college football will be gone in a few years? On what basis?

The greatest CFB coach walked away because of this BS and now head coaches are bolting for coordinator jobs. What does that tell you? Get your head out of the dark space!

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Technically, it is not 'pay for play '. So therefore, they could still transfer, sit out a season, and still make NIL money. Right?

The "sit out a season if you transfer" rule has been "temporarily" waived by the NCAA after a judge in WV put a restraining order on them enforcing it. There's currently no restrictions on how many transfers a player can have nor do they have to sit out after transferring.

With the VA and TN lawsuit, the NCAA has been pretty much prevented by another judge from policing how schools use NIL, so "pay to play" is pretty much acknowledged now.

I believe both of those lawsuits alege the NCAA is in violation of Antitrust Law, like Kavanaugh said they were in Alston.

The NCAA is ready to come off the grill. They're done.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

It tells me that some of the older coaches that are used to using under the table payments to stockpile a disproportionate share of Tre best players can't adapt to the new normal.

 

[volfan102455]

Technically, it is not 'pay for play '. So therefore, they could still transfer, sit out a season, and still make NIL money. Right?

If NIL is used as it was intended, yes. A good way to tell if NIL is really the athlete obtaining it or the school obtaining it for them is to follow the money and endorsements when a player leaves.

 

[volfan102455]

The "sit out a season if you transfer" rule has been "temporarily" waived by the NCAA after a judge in WV put a restraining order on them enforcing it. There's currently no restrictions on how many transfers a player can have nor do they have to sit out after transferring.

With the VA and TN lawsuit, the NCAA has been pretty much prevented by another judge from policing how schools use NIL, so "pay to play" is pretty much acknowledged now.

I believe both of those lawsuits alege the NCAA is in violation of Antitrust Law, like Kavanaugh said they were in Alston.

The NCAA is ready to come off the grill. They're done.

The NCAA does not employ or play athletes. The NCAA does not provide the educational scholarships. It will not be them who is on the hook for the money. I do think the next step will be for someone to sue the SEC, the B1G, etc. as those are the entities that control the distribution of a lot of the money. In particular the SEC Network, ESPN et al.

 

[volfan102455]

The greatest CFB coach walked away because of this BS and now head coaches are bolting for coordinator jobs. What does that tell you? Get your head out of the dark space!

Agree and once college football goes - so does most other college sports. Probably a good thing for education - colleges can go back to what they were intended to be.

And I do hope our million dollar QB shows he is worth it this coming year. If he doesn't the meltdown on here will be real.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The NCAA does not employ or play athletes. The NCAA does not provide the educational scholarships. It will not be them who is on the hook for the money. I do think the next step will be for someone to sue the SEC, the B1G, etc. as those are the entities that control the distribution of a lot of the money. In particular the SEC Network, ESPN et al.

The NCAA gets sued because they are the controlling body, ie , they make the rules.

Many of those rules are illegal.

The concept is "joint-employer" which means: the athletes work for the schools but the NCAA makes the rules the schools follow. That's obviously true as we've seen with the NIL and transfer rules.

The NCAA stops illegally restricting competition via NIL and transfer restrictions and the conferences and schools start using them competitively ASAP. Obviously, the NCAA was restricting competition.

I'll completely agree those competition restrictions made college ball what we enjoyed in some ways: knowing players would likely be at the school most, if not all, of their college career and feeling like the players were "loyal" (actually restricted) and great players "coming to play for our school and the love of the Power T" (actually lots of dirty money offers.)

The money became too big. The schools had too much invested and at stake to be lousy programs, so they wanted the competitive restrictions removed.

Recall, TN and VA are suing about opening up NIL, not the players. WV sued about transfers. These lawsuits are coming, essentially, from the schools...... from the Attorney Generals of these states to help their schools be more competitive.

STILL........ people here blame the players. It makes no sense.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The NCAA gets sued because they are the controlling body, ie , they make the rules.

Many of those rules are illegal.

The concept is "joint-employer" which means: the athletes work for the schools but the NCAA makes the rules the schools follow. That's obviously true as we've seen with the NIL and transfer rules.

The NCAA stops illegally restricting competition via NIL and transfer restrictions and the conferences and schools start using them competitively ASAP. Obviously, the NCAA was restricting competition.

I'll completely agree those competition restrictions made college ball what we enjoyed in some ways: knowing players would likely be at the school most, if not all, of their college career and feeling like the players were "loyal" (actually restricted) and great players "coming to play for our school and the love of the Power T" (actually lots of dirty money offers.)

The money became too big. The schools had too much invested and at stake to be lousy programs, so they wanted the competitive restrictions removed.

Recall, TN and VA are suing about opening up NIL, not the players. WV sued about transfers. These lawsuits are coming, essentially, from the schools...... from the Attorney Generals of these states to help their schools be more competitive.

STILL........ people here blame the players. It makes no sense.

Not only that but several other states AG's and the USDOJ have joined the WV suit.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Gone as we know it. Boxing was king for decades and they messed with it, now hardly any body watches. NASCAR was awesome for years then it changed, now no one gives a $h!t. Baseball is on a major downside. College football was awesome now not so much with NIL and transfer portal BS!

Wrong. It's just as good as ever. In some ways it's better. Now a handful of schools can't stockpile the best players with under the table money.

 

[tennesseeduke]

Wrong. It's just as good as ever. In some ways it's better. Now a handful of schools can't stockpile the best players with under the table money.

Sorry but you are wrong!

 

[tennesseeduke]

But it was OK when the coaches did it.

It’s there job just like yours. You can change jobs whenever you want but that doesn’t mean your middle school fb team players transfer because you got a new job!

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Sorry but you are wrong!

Based on what, exactly?
The old NCAA rules that exploited the athletes and that were violations of federal law?

 

[tennesseeduke]

Based on what, exactly?
The old NCAA rules that exploited the athletes and that were violations of federal law?

The Old NCAA rules as you put them, became an issue only when Ed O'Bannon realized that he could be paid for the use of his NIL. I'm sorry it's not federal law breaking what's happening in college athletics. If you ever read, then you would understand that the intent for NIL based on the Courts ruling of they said laws you are claiming broken was full cost of attendance at the school, Scholarships for Athletes, living expenses, and anything that the NCAA was not covering already. Football players were making on top of all that before this debacle an average prior to 2020 $30,000 to $40,000 each on top of all other expenses paid. O'Bannon also won from the Supreme Court $42.2 million for fees and costs as his case went nearly 10 years. He did not win all that money because of NIL itself! Read below the following based on the court ruling:

The trial against the NCAA lasted from June 9 to June 27, 2014. Final written closing statements were submitted on July 10.

On August 8, 2014, Wilken ruled that the NCAA's long-held practice of barring payments to athletes violated antitrust laws. She ordered that schools should be allowed to offer full cost-of-attendance scholarships to athletes, covering cost-of-living expenses that were not currently part of NCAA scholarships. Wilken also ruled that college be permitted to place as much as $5,000 into a trust for each athlete per year of eligibility.

The NCAA subsequently appealed the ruling, arguing that Wilken did not properly consider NCAA v. Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma. In that case, the NCAA was denied control of college football television rights. The Supreme Court denied the NCAA's appeal. The NCAA was also ordered to pay the plaintiffs $42.2 million in fees and costs.

So your quote of the "Old NCAA" should simply be providing additional funds to Student Athletes when their NIL is used outside of normal play on the field. I.E. name in a video game, commercial, billboard, jersey sell, .......It was never intended (just 3.5 years ago) for a school to pay a player millions, pick up $300,000 cars at dealerships, tampering, transferring for more, demanding anything from a coach etc....I'm not sure what more explanation you need but COLLEGE FOOTBALL is not and was not and should not be for this.

I don't care if NICO leads Tennesse to 3 straight NCAA Championships, paying him $8,000,000 is absolutely ridiculous and it started his senior year in high school and not even college. THAT IS F'ED UP! The argument that coaches can do it is absolutely stupid! The coach is a professional who HAS GONE TO COLLEGE AND is not enrolled in classes at the university and is paid to do a JOB! If another job is willing to pay him or her more, then because they are professionals, they have a right to barter that salary opportunity. This is the same as you can do with your career and anyone who is WORKING. The Student Athlete should come to the university because that's where they want to get their education and play for a school they love and want to be at. They should not be coming to that school because they will get paid more. That's the NFL a PAID job for professionals who have finished college and are now looking to expand on what they have learned and trained for.
IT'S COLLEGE AND COLLEGE FOOTBALL. IT'S NOT THE NFL AND PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL!

College football may survive, but as we know and love, it will never be the same unless major changes happen very quickly. If people cannot realize what coaches, and leaders, "NOT KIDS" are saying, then there is no hope, and it will die! MONEY AND GREED ARE AT THE ROOT!

 

[volfan102455]

I find it interesting that there are commercials during the SEC tournament with student athletes emphasizing what they get from the school - free education, cost of living, freedom from not coming out of college with hundreds of thousands of dollars of loans etc. Some still understand the value of what they are given and realize that most will not make money on this after college so are truly preparing themselves for the future and not gambling on something that may never happen.

 

[sami]

What you seem to have missed is what Justice Kavanaugh said in his opinion in Alston:

“Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate,” Kavanaugh wrote. “And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law.”

The NCAA business model of the unpaid student-athlete isn't legal. Kavanaugh wasn't mincing words. That's not the students, that's a Supreme Court Justice in a 9-0 decision, no dissenting opinions, essentially saying the players are employees and the NCAA needs to pay them.

Putting this "on the players" is incorrect. The NCAA is running a system which is in violation of Antitrust Law.

Here's the thing that those with your viewpoint seem to miss - most fans that yearn for the "days of old" are not saying that players shouldn't share in the revenue they are primarily responsible for producing, they are speaking as long time fans of the sport. It may seem incredibly selfish to you, and perhaps it is, but a fan is looking at sports as something he has poured his passion into for most of his life, and is now seeing that thing he loves changing in warp speed into something unrecognizable and not as appealing. It's not a matter of what is legally right or 'fair', it is having something you've loved your entire life being destroyed.

I remember when free agency first entered pro sports in the '70's and '80's, and anyone who expressed dismay at the constant movement of players was ripped for not caring about the players' rights. It wasn't about their rights, it was about changing something that had become a huge part of peoples' lives. Selfish? Short sighted? Absolutely, but it's human nature and completely understandable. Introducing the courts and politics into sports is not something most fans have the slightest desire to care about - they just want their game to be left alone.