What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

#1

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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#1
72% Of Black Kids Raised In Single Parent Household, 25 Percent In U.S. | News One

Experts point to a variety of factors to explain the high U.S. figure, including a cultural shift toward greater acceptance of single-parent child rearing. The U.S. also lacks policies to help support families, including childcare at work and national paid maternity leave, which are commonplace in other countries.

If anything, wouldn't you think the lack of "policies to help support families" would be a disincentive to have children? If their are no institutions in place, wouldn't it stand to reason that most people would probably not have or delay having children?

Maybe I'm missing something...
 
#2
#2
I agree - I don't see the causal link. If anything, you would think those things facilitate single parent families.
 
#3
#3
THIS more than any act of racism keeps the black community as a whole from attaining the same levels of economic/social success as whites, hispanics, asians, or even immigrant blacks. The article seems to suggest the exact wrong solution. Whatever you subsidize.... you get more of. Patrick Moynihan recognized that a 35% illegitimacy rate amongst blacks in 1960 would sink not only blacks but the country as a whole. He was a good man IMO but he believed in "gov't as a force for good" and pushed the war on poverty programs that contributed to even more illegitimacy along with left wing social movements like "women's lib" and the sexual revolution.
 
#4
#4
THIS more than any act of racism keeps the black community as a whole from attaining the same levels of economic/social success as whites, hispanics, asians, or even immigrant blacks. The article seems to suggest the exact wrong solution. Whatever you subsidize.... you get more of. Patrick Moynihan recognized that a 35% illegitimacy rate amongst blacks in 1960 would sink not only blacks but the country as a whole. He was a good man IMO but he believed in "gov't as a force for good" and pushed the war on poverty programs that contributed to even more illegitimacy along with left wing social movements like "women's lib" and the sexual revolution.

Really? Equal treatment and fair pay for women leads to illegitimacy?
 
#5
#5
Hate to agree with you guys but this is a huge problem for everyone but especially in the black community. Too many young single parents raised kids that also became young single parents. Its crazy. I'm 24 with one biological child and 2 step children with my wife. I really don't get why A. its an acceptable thing for men to just leave the families they started. B. Why people keep procreating with these men. I know a guy with 10 kids 4 mamas not doing anything really for any of them and girls still chase this dude. I really don't know what you can do to stop this type of stuff. Its becoming less of a black thing and more of a generationally thing. Right now you see a lot of young girls of all ethnicities having kids. This generation has more stable parents to help them tread water. It will be worse for the next.
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#6
#6
Really? Equal treatment and fair pay for women leads to illegitimacy?

No, but feminism and embracing the notion that women can behave and perform the same as men in any and all situations lead to it. It is even mentioned in the article.

Experts point to a variety of factors to explain the high U.S. figure, including a cultural shift toward greater acceptance of single-parent child rearing. The U.S. also lacks policies to help support families, including childcare at work and national paid maternity leave, which are commonplace in other countries.

Going from a male-headed, 2 parent family to a female-headed single family is fully based on feminist ideals. Men are abusive and controlling. Plus, in the black community especially, you have the ultra-feminist idea that men are unnecessary (the strong independent woman syndrome).

Mix the strong independent woman with a feminist handbook that says that women can be just as equally "active" as men, and you have the perfect recipe for having 72% of a community being raised by single mothers.

It isn't PC to point this out or say it, but it is the truth.
 
#12
#12
Other than the fact that he is shrouding his anti-women's rights views in illegitimacy statistics, you are spot on.


It's a fact that in some areas women cannot perform the same as men. Why do you think military physical fitness standards are much lower (ridiculously low, I would say) for women than they are for men?
 
#13
#13
It's a fact that in some areas women cannot perform the same as men. Why do you think military physical fitness standards are much lower (ridiculously low, I would say) for women than they are for men?

It is also a fact that in some areas men cannot perform the same as women.

As for the APFT, I have met more than one female officer that can max the APFT on the men's scale; therefore, women do have the potential to perform the same as or better than men.
 
#14
#14
Oh boy...

Let me start by saying this. Single mothers, particularly in black communities, are a fact of life. Unless everybody here is all for quadrupling enforcement of child support, this is going to happen.

The question comes down to this: What is really most important for a mother of young children? That she have the ability to raise them the best that she can, or that she stop being a leech on the system? When you look to see the origins of welfare, it is clear that the role of mothers has shifted in this country. It originally came about because single mothers of young children used to be counted among the "worthy poor" along with seniors and the disabled. They needed public assistance in order to do the best they could to raise healthy children. That's changed. You think that's because of feminism? Okay, consider this:

There is still a notion of women being irresponsible and having children so they know they can be lazy and get government assistance. Does anybody here know any welfare moms? Have they told you they like getting paltry sums and living at or near poverty? Do you honestly think the majority of them would tell you that they have no interest in seeking work again? Don't tell me it ain't so bad. The amount paid to cash welfare recipients has dropped since the 90's -- particularly with the TANF act signed in by Clinton.

Among the problems we face is a deincentivization of obtaining decent work for single moms (insert stripper joke here). Put yourself in one's shoes. You're a 23 year old mother of two young children, not yet old enough to be in preschool. You can't afford childcare and putting together a patchwork of babysitters is difficult and inconsistent at best. Do you: A) Get a minimum wage job at 32 hours a week, significantly reducing your ability to provide for your children and cutting back or eliminating your welfare amounts and most importantly jeopardizing Medicaid benefits, or do you B) maintain welfare status so you can ensure medical coverage for yourself and your family knowing you can scrape together what you need on a month to month basis, though you have no ability to save?

SCHIP has made some advances in providing care for children. I don't think anybody would be alright with penalizing kids for being born into crappy situations and denying them basic healthcare. But their mothers?

Everybody in this debate sees the same goal: Getting as many people off welfare as possible. But a simple look around will show that poverty as is, is a cyclical thing. Many people revert to an individualist approach to the problem, that if people wanted out they would pick themselves up by the boot straps and improve their lot. But once somebody is in a cycle of poverty, that happens at a very, very low rate.

My point is that welfare and Medicaid as it exists is a crappy patchwork system that only results in more poverty. Instead of providing people with enough to not starve, how about providing a way for them to take themselves and improve their value of human capital, so that they have a decent shot at pulling themselves out of poverty and eventually pay more back to society than they take from it? And one that allows single mothers to raise healthy children that won't grow up to be truants and eventually criminals? Or maybe the ability to work towards a four year degree should they decide to work hard enough for one.

There is a lot of inefficiency and many holes in our POS patchwork public assistance programs. They need major overhauling, but making these massive cuts is making the choice to cut off many of these communities to fend for themselves. I can promise this will result in a lot more problems than we currently face. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 
#15
#15
Oh boy...

Let me start by saying this. Single mothers, particularly in black communities, are a fact of life. Unless everybody here is all for quadrupling enforcement of child support, this is going to happen.

The question comes down to this: What is really most important for a mother of young children? That she have the ability to raise them the best that she can, or that she stop being a leech on the system? When you look to see the origins of welfare, it is clear that the role of mothers has shifted in this country. It originally came about because single mothers of young children used to be counted among the "worthy poor" along with seniors and the disabled. They needed public assistance in order to do the best they could to raise healthy children. That's changed. You think that's because of feminism? Okay, consider this:

There is still a notion of women being irresponsible and having children so they know they can be lazy and get government assistance. Does anybody here know any welfare moms? Have they told you they like getting paltry sums and living at or near poverty? Do you honestly think the majority of them would tell you that they have no interest in seeking work again? Don't tell me it ain't so bad. The amount paid to cash welfare recipients has dropped since the 90's -- particularly with the TANF act signed in by Clinton.

Among the problems we face is a deincentivization of obtaining decent work for single moms (insert stripper joke here). Put yourself in one's shoes. You're a 23 year old mother of two young children, not yet old enough to be in preschool. You can't afford childcare and putting together a patchwork of babysitters is difficult and inconsistent at best. Do you: A) Get a minimum wage job at 32 hours a week, significantly reducing your ability to provide for your children and cutting back or eliminating your welfare amounts and most importantly jeopardizing Medicaid benefits, or do you B) maintain welfare status so you can ensure medical coverage for yourself and your family knowing you can scrape together what you need on a month to month basis, though you have no ability to save?

SCHIP has made some advances in providing care for children. I don't think anybody would be alright with penalizing kids for being born into crappy situations and denying them basic healthcare. But their mothers?

Everybody in this debate sees the same goal: Getting as many people off welfare as possible. But a simple look around will show that poverty as is, is a cyclical thing. Many people revert to an individualist approach to the problem, that if people wanted out they would pick themselves up by the boot straps and improve their lot. But once somebody is in a cycle of poverty, that happens at a very, very low rate.

My point is that welfare and Medicaid as it exists is a crappy patchwork system that only results in more poverty. Instead of providing people with enough to not starve, how about providing a way for them to take themselves and improve their value of human capital, so that they have a decent shot at pulling themselves out of poverty and eventually pay more back to society than they take from it? And one that allows single mothers to raise healthy children that won't grow up to be truants and eventually criminals? Or maybe the ability to work towards a four year degree should they decide to work hard enough for one.

There is a lot of inefficiency and many holes in our POS patchwork public assistance programs. They need major overhauling, but making these massive cuts is making the choice to cut off many of these communities to fend for themselves. I can promise this will result in a lot more problems than we currently face. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

well said
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#16
#16
Oh boy...

Let me start by saying this. Single mothers, particularly in black communities, are a fact of life. Unless everybody here is all for quadrupling enforcement of child support, this is going to happen.

The question comes down to this: What is really most important for a mother of young children? That she have the ability to raise them the best that she can, or that she stop being a leech on the system? When you look to see the origins of welfare, it is clear that the role of mothers has shifted in this country. It originally came about because single mothers of young children used to be counted among the "worthy poor" along with seniors and the disabled. They needed public assistance in order to do the best they could to raise healthy children. That's changed. You think that's because of feminism? Okay, consider this:

There is still a notion of women being irresponsible and having children so they know they can be lazy and get government assistance. Does anybody here know any welfare moms? Have they told you they like getting paltry sums and living at or near poverty? Do you honestly think the majority of them would tell you that they have no interest in seeking work again? Don't tell me it ain't so bad. The amount paid to cash welfare recipients has dropped since the 90's -- particularly with the TANF act signed in by Clinton.

Among the problems we face is a deincentivization of obtaining decent work for single moms (insert stripper joke here). Put yourself in one's shoes. You're a 23 year old mother of two young children, not yet old enough to be in preschool. You can't afford childcare and putting together a patchwork of babysitters is difficult and inconsistent at best. Do you: A) Get a minimum wage job at 32 hours a week, significantly reducing your ability to provide for your children and cutting back or eliminating your welfare amounts and most importantly jeopardizing Medicaid benefits, or do you B) maintain welfare status so you can ensure medical coverage for yourself and your family knowing you can scrape together what you need on a month to month basis, though you have no ability to save?

SCHIP has made some advances in providing care for children. I don't think anybody would be alright with penalizing kids for being born into crappy situations and denying them basic healthcare. But their mothers?

Everybody in this debate sees the same goal: Getting as many people off welfare as possible. But a simple look around will show that poverty as is, is a cyclical thing. Many people revert to an individualist approach to the problem, that if people wanted out they would pick themselves up by the boot straps and improve their lot. But once somebody is in a cycle of poverty, that happens at a very, very low rate.

My point is that welfare and Medicaid as it exists is a crappy patchwork system that only results in more poverty. Instead of providing people with enough to not starve, how about providing a way for them to take themselves and improve their value of human capital, so that they have a decent shot at pulling themselves out of poverty and eventually pay more back to society than they take from it? And one that allows single mothers to raise healthy children that won't grow up to be truants and eventually criminals? Or maybe the ability to work towards a four year degree should they decide to work hard enough for one.

There is a lot of inefficiency and many holes in our POS patchwork public assistance programs. They need major overhauling, but making these massive cuts is making the choice to cut off many of these communities to fend for themselves. I can promise this will result in a lot more problems than we currently face. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Nice in theory but the correlation between the growth in single parents and the growth of the welfare state is incredibly strong.

The whole ounce of prevention thing hasn't been born out - the data simply do not support that these programs have advanced the people they intend to help.

I don't think people are advocating cutting the programs out or in many cases even cutting them. Most "cuts" are in truth reductions in the growth of spending. Even the evil Ryan plan isn't cutting Medicaid and probably not CHIP. It is changing the funding formula. Even if this results in a slight reduction of the programs that is far from getting rid of them.

I understand the arguments but don't see how increasing public assistance will REDUCE the incidence of single parent families (the question raised in the OP). Logic suggests that more of these programs will make single parenthood easier = incentivizing.
 
#17
#17
Reducing the number of single parent families is another matter entirely.

Correlation does not mean causality here. Fertility is lower than average among welfare recipients, and still has been declining among non-whites. If you're a young woman of meager means, having a kid means you will likely be locked into a long term cycle of poverty.

The problem we have here is what I would call a self-esteem issue. It's particularly common among the black community that young women have kids at younger ages from higher levels of sexual activity, lower levels of protection and all the other issues that go with that. Combine the insecurities that any teenage girl goes through (particularly need for male attention by those with 'daddy issues') with increased sexual activity, bam, you have high teen or young pregnancy. The economics are nowhere near as in play in causing this as many think they are.
 
#18
#18
And again, tie that to the fact that high rates of single motherhood is an issue we have now, and it needs to be dealt with.

I trust that people all want to do the right thing at heart, but I sincerely doubt the average person knows what it means to be on TANF/Medicaid or why it happens.

The way I prefer to look at it is the upstream approach. I'm sure you've heard the analogy.
 
#19
#19
Oh boy...

Let me start by saying this. Single mothers, particularly in black communities, are a fact of life. Unless everybody here is all for quadrupling enforcement of child support, this is going to happen.

The question comes down to this: What is really most important for a mother of young children? That she have the ability to raise them the best that she can, or that she stop being a leech on the system? When you look to see the origins of welfare, it is clear that the role of mothers has shifted in this country. It originally came about because single mothers of young children used to be counted among the "worthy poor" along with seniors and the disabled. They needed public assistance in order to do the best they could to raise healthy children. That's changed. You think that's because of feminism? Okay, consider this:

There is still a notion of women being irresponsible and having children so they know they can be lazy and get government assistance. Does anybody here know any welfare moms? Have they told you they like getting paltry sums and living at or near poverty? Do you honestly think the majority of them would tell you that they have no interest in seeking work again? Don't tell me it ain't so bad. The amount paid to cash welfare recipients has dropped since the 90's -- particularly with the TANF act signed in by Clinton.

Among the problems we face is a deincentivization of obtaining decent work for single moms (insert stripper joke here). Put yourself in one's shoes. You're a 23 year old mother of two young children, not yet old enough to be in preschool. You can't afford childcare and putting together a patchwork of babysitters is difficult and inconsistent at best. Do you: A) Get a minimum wage job at 32 hours a week, significantly reducing your ability to provide for your children and cutting back or eliminating your welfare amounts and most importantly jeopardizing Medicaid benefits, or do you B) maintain welfare status so you can ensure medical coverage for yourself and your family knowing you can scrape together what you need on a month to month basis, though you have no ability to save?

SCHIP has made some advances in providing care for children. I don't think anybody would be alright with penalizing kids for being born into crappy situations and denying them basic healthcare. But their mothers?

Everybody in this debate sees the same goal: Getting as many people off welfare as possible. But a simple look around will show that poverty as is, is a cyclical thing. Many people revert to an individualist approach to the problem, that if people wanted out they would pick themselves up by the boot straps and improve their lot. But once somebody is in a cycle of poverty, that happens at a very, very low rate.

My point is that welfare and Medicaid as it exists is a crappy patchwork system that only results in more poverty. Instead of providing people with enough to not starve, how about providing a way for them to take themselves and improve their value of human capital, so that they have a decent shot at pulling themselves out of poverty and eventually pay more back to society than they take from it? And one that allows single mothers to raise healthy children that won't grow up to be truants and eventually criminals? Or maybe the ability to work towards a four year degree should they decide to work hard enough for one.

There is a lot of inefficiency and many holes in our POS patchwork public assistance programs. They need major overhauling, but making these massive cuts is making the choice to cut off many of these communities to fend for themselves. I can promise this will result in a lot more problems than we currently face. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
It comes down to these women making poor choices in the men they choose to spread their legs with. Plain and simple.

It's not a gov't program or lack there of that causes this to happen. When the teenager gets pregnant, it is because the mom set bad examples on how to choose a man. When it is a woman that is over 21, it is just plain stupidity, laziness or apathy for a woman to put herself in that position.

Men have been beaten up on this issue for decades because the argument has been that the men are running away from their responsibility. I agree with that assessment. But what portion of the blame do the women bear in all of this? They have gotten a free pass. They choose to reproduce with men that aren't even capable of supporting themselves or being responsible at the time of conception, yet these women somehow expect these same men to do a 180 and all of a sudden become Cliff Huxtable... it wasn't in him to be that kind of man in the first place.
 
#20
#20
It comes down to these women making poor choices in the men they choose to spread their legs with. Plain and simple.

It's not a gov't program or lack there of that causes this to happen. When the teenager gets pregnant, it is because the mom set bad examples on how to choose a man. When it is a woman that is over 21, it is just plain stupidity, laziness or apathy for a woman to put herself in that position.

Men have been beaten up on this issue for decades because the argument has been that the men are running away from their responsibility. I agree with that assessment. But what portion of the blame do the women bear in all of this? They have gotten a free pass. They choose to reproduce with men that aren't even capable of supporting themselves or being responsible at the time of conception, yet these women somehow expect these same men to do a 180 and all of a sudden become Cliff Huxtable... it wasn't in him to be that kind of man in the first place.
The problem you have here is that these irresponsible women are bearing children. When they receive punitive treatment while trying to be parents, their children are thereby likely damned to poverty as well. It's not like they chose to be born into that situation (any Hindus in the room?). That's how it breeds itself. A way to break the cycle is needed.

Enabling them to raise healthy kids that won't go on to make the same dumb decisions is a start.
 
#21
#21
Fertility is lower than average among welfare recipients...

That seems counter intuitive. Seems like the percentage of people with children that are on WIC is 100%... :ermm:

People on Section 8 housing and food stamps is probably closer to 3 out of 4 (pulling a number out of thin air, based on family members and the like that are on some of these welfare programs).
 
#22
#22
The problem you have here is that these irresponsible women are bearing children. When they receive punitive treatment while trying to be parents, their children are thereby likely damned to poverty as well. It's not like they chose to be born into that situation (any Hindus in the room?). That's how it breeds itself. A way to break the cycle is needed.

Enabling them to raise healthy kids that won't go on to make the same dumb decisions is a start.

In order to break the cycle, we will need Draconian methods. 72% of children being raised in single parent homes is already a virtual death sentence, no matter how many programs you have. In fact, these programs are killing the black community with kindness and creating a cycle of dependency on gov't.
 
#24
#24
In order to break the cycle, we will need Draconian methods. 72% of children being raised in single parent homes is already a virtual death sentence, no matter how many programs you have. In fact, these programs are killing the black community with kindness and creating a cycle of dependency on gov't.

And why do you think this is? Ever looked at how much a family actually received from TANF and EBT? In many states, it's not even enough to survive on. Many welfare recipients have to focus all of their energy merely into making sure their kids have food in their mouths, through earning side money. That then makes them fraudulent recipients, but they have to do it to survive. If they do go on to get legit jobs, typically at minimum wage or only a couple dollars above it, their prospects get even worse. Sporadic hours and reduced benefits come with going out and getting work.

The "cycle of dependency" only happens because most recipients do not have the resources to develop themselves as skilled persons and earn enough to pay their own way while raising a child, not because these people think they are on some gravy train. Again, you ever known somebody on TANF? Did they think it was the hottest thing since sliced bread?

Most of them do want to break out and become productive citizens. But the reality is that unless they are essentially lucky, their prospects to do so are pretty slim.
 
#25
#25
And why do you think this is? Ever looked at how much a family actually received from TANF and EBT? In many states, it's not even enough to survive on. Many welfare recipients have to focus all of their energy merely into making sure their kids have food in their mouths, through earning side money. That then makes them fraudulent recipients, but they have to do it to survive. If they do go on to get legit jobs, typically at minimum wage or only a couple dollars above it, their prospects get even worse. Sporadic hours and reduced benefits come with going out and getting work.

The "cycle of dependency" only happens because most recipients do not have the resources to develop themselves as skilled persons and earn enough to pay their own way while raising a child, not because these people think they are on some gravy train. Again, you ever known somebody on TANF? Did they think it was the hottest thing since sliced bread?

Most of them do want to break out and become productive citizens. But the reality is that unless they are essentially lucky, their prospects to do so are pretty slim.

That doesn't represent "many" or even half of the people on public assistance. You are painting such a rosy picture...

Trust me, their lives would be made a lot easier with better choices. Better choices before the child is born. Better choices afterwards. I've got cousins and aunts that use their EIC money every year on trips, TVs, clothes, etc. The last thing on their mind is using that money for the necessities because they figure that is what the gov't should be taking care of. They use what little extra money they get (whether it's side money or extra money gained from excess benefits, selling EBT cards for $.50 on the dollar) on luxury items. Real talk... hate to break the news to you Mr. Bleedingheart, but it is what it is.
 

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