What Is It That Rats Do When The Ship Is Sinking...

#51
#51
sjrobert said:
The point is obvious though you missed it, that point being, that not being tried or convicted of something, doesn't prove that a person (coach in this instance) isn't unethical or guilty of transgressions that others would avoid. It simply means a strong cloud of suspicion hasn't met the threshold of violating NCAA rules, at least not yet. Nothing to do with being coach of one of the top bb schools of all-time. Quite simple point to understand.
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Well, everyone was arguing as to whether or not someone would hire Coach O, and seeing as how Calipari got hired on to coach at Kentucky AFTER he actually had allegations placed on him makes your argument irrelevant. That, is also a point that you must have missed.
 
#52
#52
TylerD said:
Well, everyone was arguing as to whether or not someone would hire Coach O, and seeing as how Calipari got hired on to coach at Kentucky AFTER he actually had allegations placed on him makes your argument irrelevant. That, is also a point that you must have missed.
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Au contraire. Kentucky would hire anyone, as they were desperate, desperate not to get farther behind in their irrelevancy, so allegations didn't matter to them at all. That is what the hiring proved, that UK was willing to throw the dice, just as Memphis did. Good coach? Yes. Great recruiter? Yes. Unethical? Yes. It doesn't take a court decision to connect the dots.
 
#54
#54
sjrobert said:
Au contraire. Kentucky would hire anyone, as they were desperate, desperate not to get farther behind in their irrelevancy, so allegations didn't matter to them at all. That is what the hiring proved, that UK was willing to throw the dice, just as Memphis did. Good coach? Yes. Great recruiter? Yes. Unethical? Yes. It doesn't take a court decision to connect the dots.
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My point is still, as it has been this whole time, that someone will hire Coach O. Obviously there are teams out there that feel the same as Kentucky did, and I would assume you know this. If you were trying to prove me wrong you have failed, but you have succeeded in making your point that Calipari isn't ethical. However, I don't think that was ever in question but hey, good job. :good!:
 
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#56
#56
TylerD said:
My point is still, as it has been this whole time, that someone will hire Coach O. Obviously there are teams out there that feel the same as Kentucky did, and I would assume you know this. If you were trying to prove me wrong you have failed, but you have succeeded in making your point that Calipari isn't ethical. However, I don't think that was ever in question but hey, good job. :good!:
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Actually, I agree with you that O will get another job. My original comment was in response to O not having been convicted or charged with anything. I replied that neither (for comparison) had Cali.....but that doesn't mean he won't be, down the line somewhere. I should have added that to my original comment.
 
#58
#58
Volfan8282 said:
USC is still the better job in the long-term.
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Based on what? Your opinion? I respectfully disagree. Tennessee is pretty even in all-time wins, bowl appearances, bowl victories, etc. The Vols do, hoever, trail significantly when it comes to major NCAA violations.
 
#59
#59
EZE said:
Based on what? Your opinion? I respectfully disagree. Tennessee is pretty even in all-time wins, bowl appearances, bowl victories, etc. The Vols do, hoever, trail significantly when it comes to major NCAA violations.
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Recruiting and, for the time being, an easier conference. It's easier to win big at USC. I don't see that changing unless Texas, Oklahoma, etc. join the conference.
 
#62
#62
Volfan8282 said:
Recruiting and, for the time being, an easier conference. It's easier to win big at USC. I don't see that changing unless Texas, Oklahoma, etc. join the conference.
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How are they gonna recruit big? They just lost what thirty scholarships. If anything this is prime time to get out to California and recruit there. USC is the only thing the Pac 10, err 11 has. And i the foreseeable future it will not be very attractive. As far as the Big whatever it is now, that's a weak conference, especially now. S, I think it will be easier to win big and recruit at UT rather than USC.
 
#63
#63
knucklehead_vol said:
How are they gonna recruit big? They just lost what thirty scholarships. If anything this is prime time to get out to California and recruit there. USC is the only thing the Pac 10, err 11 has. And i the foreseeable future it will not be very attractive. As far as the Big whatever it is now, that's a weak conference, especially now. S, I think it will be easier to win big and recruit at UT rather than USC.
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You're acting like this probation deal is forever. They'll be fine by 2013. Also, the fact that the PAC-10 is a weaker conference should lead to winning big. It's much easier to make BCS games with a program like USC in the PAC-10.
 
#64
#64
Volfan8282 said:
You're acting like this probation deal is forever. They'll be fine by 2013. Also, the fact that the PAC-10 is a weaker conference should lead to winning big. It's much easier to make BCS games with a program like USC in the PAC-10.
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Oh really?

This a mathematical perspective from an SEC fan to a Trojan:

I assume you have 85 players on Scholarship now.

I count 20 Seniors on your roster

In January 2011 you lose those 20 guys which takes you down to 65.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 10 in this class if you have less than 85 now you can sign a few more but regardless you will be limited to 75 total for the Fall of 2011.

Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2011 season with 75 players.

I count 33 Juniors on your roster

In January 2012 you lose those 33 guys which takes you down to 75 - 33 = 42.
You will have spring practice with 42 players on scholarship.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 15 in the 2012 class. Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2012 season with 57 players.

I count 21 Sophomores on your roster

In January 2013 you lose those 21 guys which takes you down to 57 - 21 = 36.
You will have spring practice with 36 players on scholarship.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 15 in the 2012 class. Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2013 season with 51 players.

So for Spring Practice you will have

2011 -65
2012 - 42
2013 - 36

And for Fall for actual games you will have on scholarship

2011 - 75
2012 - 57
2013 - 51

Those are the numbers - assuming you do not lose anyone to injury, grades etc etc

They may be a little different with how you use your red-shirts on the Juniors and Sophomores but after attrition I would be willing to bet the numbers will be close.

The good news is in 2014 you can sign 25 - that gets you back to 76 and then in 2015 with another 25 you will be close to 85 - my guess is you will not be back to the full 85 allotment till 2016 with the majority of your roster Freshmen and Sophomores. This will be very good for your 2017 and 2018 years but that is a long way off.
 
#67
#67
knucklehead_vol said:
Oh really?

This a mathematical perspective from an SEC fan to a Trojan:

I assume you have 85 players on Scholarship now.

I count 20 Seniors on your roster

In January 2011 you lose those 20 guys which takes you down to 65.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 10 in this class if you have less than 85 now you can sign a few more but regardless you will be limited to 75 total for the Fall of 2011.

Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2011 season with 75 players.

I count 33 Juniors on your roster

In January 2012 you lose those 33 guys which takes you down to 75 - 33 = 42.
You will have spring practice with 42 players on scholarship.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 15 in the 2012 class. Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2012 season with 57 players.

I count 21 Sophomores on your roster

In January 2013 you lose those 21 guys which takes you down to 57 - 21 = 36.
You will have spring practice with 36 players on scholarship.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 15 in the 2012 class. Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2013 season with 51 players.

So for Spring Practice you will have

2011 -65
2012 - 42
2013 - 36

And for Fall for actual games you will have on scholarship

2011 - 75
2012 - 57
2013 - 51

Those are the numbers - assuming you do not lose anyone to injury, grades etc etc

They may be a little different with how you use your red-shirts on the Juniors and Sophomores but after attrition I would be willing to bet the numbers will be close.

The good news is in 2014 you can sign 25 - that gets you back to 76 and then in 2015 with another 25 you will be close to 85 - my guess is you will not be back to the full 85 allotment till 2016 with the majority of your roster Freshmen and Sophomores. This will be very good for your 2017 and 2018 years but that is a long way off.
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Ahh, good stuff. I hadn't seen a breakdown like this before. I guess it just depends how they do in the recruiting classes in 2013 and 2014. That definitely makes it worse than I originally thought. I do wonder how the appeal could affect things, particularly the scholarship issues.
 
#68
#68
That breakdown just made my night. Can't wait till they are down to 50 scholarship players. lol
 
#69
#69
I can't see the NCAA saying they almost tv banned USC in their report and then reducing penalties. This was their statement message right or wrong to police high profile amateurs. Couldn't have happened to a better team or coach.
If they hadn't hired Kiffin and O I could see an appeal getting more traction. Because they could point to the new sheriff and new direction. Instead they can point to clowns hanging around at the time of the original violations. The same clowns that kicked up violations while they were in the middle of leaving UT.
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#71
#71
sjrobert said:
Actually, I agree with you that O will get another job. My original comment was in response to O not having been convicted or charged with anything. I replied that neither (for comparison) had Cali.....but that doesn't mean he won't be, down the line somewhere. I should have added that to my original comment.
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It's all good. :good!:
 
#72
#72
Do you guys see UCLA making a comeback and taking USC's place? It makes sense to me.
 
#73
#73
knucklehead_vol said:
Oh really?

This a mathematical perspective from an SEC fan to a Trojan:

I assume you have 85 players on Scholarship now.

I count 20 Seniors on your roster

In January 2011 you lose those 20 guys which takes you down to 65.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 10 in this class if you have less than 85 now you can sign a few more but regardless you will be limited to 75 total for the Fall of 2011.

Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2011 season with 75 players.

I count 33 Juniors on your roster

In January 2012 you lose those 33 guys which takes you down to 75 - 33 = 42.
You will have spring practice with 42 players on scholarship.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 15 in the 2012 class. Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2012 season with 57 players.

I count 21 Sophomores on your roster

In January 2013 you lose those 21 guys which takes you down to 57 - 21 = 36.
You will have spring practice with 36 players on scholarship.

In February you can sign 15 up to 75 total. In other words you can only sign 15 in the 2012 class. Lets assume all of those guys make it in you will play the 2013 season with 51 players.

So for Spring Practice you will have

2011 -65
2012 - 42
2013 - 36

And for Fall for actual games you will have on scholarship

2011 - 75
2012 - 57
2013 - 51

Those are the numbers - assuming you do not lose anyone to injury, grades etc etc

They may be a little different with how you use your red-shirts on the Juniors and Sophomores but after attrition I would be willing to bet the numbers will be close.

The good news is in 2014 you can sign 25 - that gets you back to 76 and then in 2015 with another 25 you will be close to 85 - my guess is you will not be back to the full 85 allotment till 2016 with the majority of your roster Freshmen and Sophomores. This will be very good for your 2017 and 2018 years but that is a long way off.
Click to expand...

Also, this is given none of their players transfer. lol Good luck with that. :p
 
#75
#75
Slick Rick outcoached Kiffin last year. I think this year UCLA may lose. Next year is a toss up though. USC is going to be very thin at all positions the two years after this one. I actually dont think Rick is that bad of a coach. He has a good OC.
 
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