What should be the quantum of proof needed to prove an election claim, and what should be the consequence if you are wrong

#26
#26
Ditch this electronic proprietary software voting system and I will have more faith.
It shouldn't be this difficult to count integers.
Seeing what we have seen for the past many years..proves to me that any one's vote is not necessarily counted accurately. Who knows the accuracy rate.
Ballot harvesting is real.
Destroying election records is real.

No way the nation is as evenly divided as exhibited by election or district. Defies probabilities. Counting chads led to this.

And no way Biden got anti Trump 81M when the man had NO enthusiasm.

Look at polls of "US Right Track"

https://morningconsult.com/right-direction-wrong-track/
I dont see a paper ballot as any more secure than an electric one. They can still roll out the paper ballots and forge away the same information. And they would still be digitizing the information anyway to do any type of totals for a district, yet alone a state.
 
#27
#27
So we know that Trump and his attorneys promoted claims of election fraud often with either no proof or with proof already deemed insufficient (or worse, fabricated) to support the claims. Lawyers are being held to account for those falsehoods. Trump probably never will be.

But now there is a pattern of these sorts of claims made by losing GOPers. Kari Lake in Arizona is a prominent example. There are others, some of them quite extreme:
Failed GOP candidate arrested on suspicion of orchestrating shootings at homes of Democrats in New Mexico, police say | CNN


So it seems to me we have come to a point where a losing candidate who wants to promote a claim that the election result was wrong, or obtained through fraud, ought to have to meet a minimum threshold to do so. I personally think that if the claim is miscounting they should have to have a minimum of two affidavits from election officials explaining how the tabulation occurred. If it is a claim of fraud, I think they should have to have admissible evidence that at least 25 % of the vote differential was fraudulent. This does not mean someone speculating. This means examples or other extrinsic objective evidence of fraud.

And if a candidate promotes claims of either without meeting that criteria, there should be criminal or even civil penalties. Fines. Possible claims for defamation by the prevailing candidate.

I am open to alternative thresholds but it seems to me that clearly part of the problem here is that a lot of this gets perpetuated by at first a sweeping claim of fraud only to have it in the end be reduced to a small, finite number of examples and usually where the evidence is ambivalent at best.

An election loser has a right to protest it. But we are at a point where there needs to be some formality to that process so that disgruntled losers cannot withour cause or consequence undermine the very office they sought to hold.

In your model what would happen to Hillary and Stacy Abrams?
 
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#29
#29
Any thoughts on how to get politics out of the courtroom?
Not any feasible...I do like the idea of those position being non paid.....but I don't believe anything like that is possible. We would have to really on human nature becoming altruistic and less self serving
 
#31
#31
Not any feasible...I do like the idea of those position being non paid.....but I don't believe anything like that is possible. We would have to really on human nature becoming altruistic and less self serving
Altruism is one thing. Working a difficult job for free is probably not why people go into debt to go to law school.
 
#35
#35
Absolutely that's why it such a hard thing to keep politics out.

It doesn't help when judges are party members and receive funding to run for election. Once elected, they are primed for appointment to non elected positions. I fail to see how someone can remain unbiased when they are a member of biased group.
 
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