What was Kellie's problem at N.C. State?

#2
#2
Looks like recruiting could have been an issue. She wasn’t getting the kind of athletes it takes to compete in the ACC.
 
#3
#3
A couple reasons, Kay Yow wanted her assistant, Stephanie Glance, to succeed her but AD selected Kellie. Kellie had initial good year but failed to get any top recruits and record went downhill and missed NCAAW tournament. Kellie’s last year they lost first 7 games in ACC play. Lost to James Madison in second round of WNIT and was fired by Kay’s sister Debbie who was then the AD. (Debbie fired 6 other coaches in 2 years.)
Kellie didn’t have a good record at NCState but a lot of times IMO it comes down to a “right fit” for a coach to be successful so hopefully, it will be a right fit at UT.
 
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#4
#4
stlvolsfan said:
Looks like recruiting could have been an issue. She wasn’t getting the kind of athletes it takes to compete in the ACC.
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Maybe part of that was the school she was recruiting to. I mean it's not like NC STATE is a power in Women's college basketball. If Holly and her assistants can recruit to TN I see no reason why Kellie can't. Plus, you can already see a difference in demeanor, poise, and confidence in Kellie as compared to Holly. Kellie also has this years tournament run to show she can be a tournament level coach. Plus, the current team is staying and she is talking to current recruits. All these things plus being at Tennessee (her Alma Mater) is a winning combination IMHO.
 
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#5
#5
KJH replaced Coach Yow after she passed away in the middle of her final season. Imagine if, when PHS stepped down, Tennessee would have replaced her with an outsider. At that time, most people would have had a fit. Kay Yow had been the NC State coach for 34 years. And while KJH was not as successful at NC State as most would have liked, Kay Yow had some lean years at NC State as well. 1991-94 a combined record of 43-39 with no NCAA appearances, 2001-2004 a record of 42-47 with one NCAA first round appearance. She never won a single ACC title after 1990-91. Does it mean that KJH did a great job at NC State, no it doesn't. But it also shows it was a difficult situation to step into following the death of a beloved coach and it wasn't like NC State was tearing up the ACC before she arrived. It is not a great record on her resume, but hopefully she has learned from it and will receive more support at UT than it is alleged she received at NC State.
 
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#7
#7
eaglevol said:
KJH replaced Coach Yow after she passed away in the middle of her final season. Imagine if, when PHS stepped down, Tennessee would have replaced her with an outsider. At that time, most people would have had a fit. Kay Yow had been the NC State coach for 34 years. And while KJH was not as successful at NC State as most would have liked, Kay Yow had some lean years at NC State as well. 1991-94 a combined record of 43-39 with no NCAA appearances, 2001-2004 a record of 42-47 with one NCAA first round appearance. She never won a single ACC title after 1990-91. Does it mean that KJH did a great job at NC State, no it doesn't. But it also shows it was a difficult situation to step into following the death of a beloved coach and it wasn't like NC State was tearing up the ACC before she arrived. It is not a great record on her resume, but hopefully she has learned from it and will receive more support at UT than it is alleged she received at NC State.
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Thank you
 
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#9
#9
Her problem was she couldn’t recruit or coach it seems. The school maybe had some issues but Wes Moore took over and went 25-8 the first year after Kellie had went 17-17, he has a 711 win % there and 656 % in ACC. While Kellie went .522 and 442. Some coaches cannot handle P5 jobs, they do well at mid majors where it’s not the meat grinder. Maybe Kellie can I guess we shall see, some didn’t think Wes Moore could after he left UTC but he has done pretty well.
 
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#10
#10
Bigorangefaninga said:
Her problem was she couldn’t recruit or coach it seems. The school maybe had some issues but Wes Moore took over and went 25-8 the first year after Kellie had went 17-17, he has a 711 win % there and 656 % in ACC. While Kellie went .522 and 442. Some coaches cannot handle P5 jobs, they do well at mid majors where it’s not the meat grinder. Maybe Kellie can I guess we shall see, some didn’t think Wes Moore could after he left UTC but he has done pretty well.
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This is the part I struggle with in this story. First, I hope KJH does a fabulous job here. I really like her a lot. That being said, I do not think she has a resume worthy of being hired for the Lady Vols job. Everyone talks about the lack of players and the recruiting at NC State. Wes Moore immediately started winning with basically the same team. Then, the next excuse is about the AD and supposed resentment towards the hire of KJH. If the issue was that she wanted the assistant hired, then why was Moore hired and not the assistant that was so desperately wanted to succeed Yow?
 
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#11
#11
Stephanie Glance, Kay’s assistant, went to Illinois State for 3 years as head coach and had a very good record. She then went to Columbia University for a short period and was turning that program around. She became executive director of the Kay You Foundation (I think about the same time Wes Moore was hired at NC State but I am not sure about that).
 
#12
#12
Coach Moore had a pretty good 1st season but so did Kellie. They both took their teams to the NCAAs. The Wolfpack Women failed to go the next two years with Moore. They have done well by our recent standards these past few years and I hope he can coach them to championships. Something else to keep in mind is the facility (Reynolds Coliseum) the Wolfpack Women play in was an antiquated dump during Kellie's time. It was renovated in 2016. It is very nice now. I am sure that helps with recruiting.
 
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#13
#13
Raebo said:
Stephanie Glance, Kay’s assistant, went to Illinois State for 3 years as head coach and had a very good record. She then went to Columbia University for a short period and was turning that program around. She became executive director of the Kay You Foundation (I think about the same time Wes Moore was hired at NC State but I am not sure about that).
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So she was more than qualified and proven to come back to NC State for a better job than those. I'm sure times change, but it seems odd she was never hired subsequently if everyone was so upset she wasn't hired the first time.
 
#14
#14
NCSULadyVol said:
Coach Moore had a pretty good 1st season but so did Kellie. They both took their teams to the NCAAs. The Wolfpack Women failed to go the next two years with Moore. They have done well by our recent standards these past few years and I hope he can coach them to championships. Something else to keep in mind is the facility (Reynolds Coliseum) the Wolfpack Women play in was an antiquated dump during Kellie's time. It was renovated in 2016. It is very nice now. I am sure that helps with recruiting.
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Another thing to keep in mind is that during Kellie’s tenure both Duke and North Carolina were still powerhouses that landed the better recruits as well as always being in the conversation for post-season success. Now, both of those programs have declined considerably.

I think Wes is a terrific coach and I would have been just fine with him at Tennessee, but I don’t think it’s fair to compare his and Kellie’s records at NCST because the conference landscape looks a lot different now.
 
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#15
#15
lvocd said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that during Kellie’s tenure both Duke and North Carolina were still powerhouses that landed the better recruits as well as always being in the conversation for post-season success. Now, both of those programs have declined considerably.

I think Wes is a terrific coach and I would have been just fine with him at Tennessee, but I don’t think it’s fair to compare his and Kellie’s records at NCST because the conference landscape looks a lot different now.
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Seems very fair to compare the significant difference in her last year and his first.
 
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#16
#16
SmokyRiverDog said:
Seems very fair to compare the significant difference in her last year and his first.
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True, but the most glaring error in my theory is that I had totally forgotten for a moment that both Notre Dame and Louisville are now ACC and so supplant Duke ans NC.

Sorry, folks! I’m getting old. Carry on.
 
#18
#18
Obviously, there were a lot of mediating factors BUT most of all, she was still a young coach making a big jump from her prior school to NCST. In interviews, she flat out said that she was not prepared for the scale of the job but that she learned a lot from the experience and is a very different coach than she was then. I think it is very different to be an up & coming young coach who hits a bump in her first big job than an established entity who can not translate prior success to another institution (as in Gail G. at Texas). G.G.'s example also shows that fit and timing can play a big role in a coach's success.

The fit between KJH and the LVS could not be any better and she has a stable of race horses which she did not have at NCST so that means a much better foundation to build on. Success tends to create more success. Thus, if KJH gets off to a good start with this team -- and if she gets this team defending and playing as a unit, they are more than capable of an SEC title and deep tournament run--then recruiting success should also follow.

One thing I believe is that KJH does not have time for a "rebuilding" year; this season has to be a re-establishment season

But, I would suggest that her NC ST. dilemmas are:
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#19
#19
SmokyRiverDog said:
So she was more than qualified and proven to come back to NC State for a better job than those. I'm sure times change, but it seems odd she was never hired subsequently if everyone was so upset she wasn't hired the first time.
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Debbie Yow wants championships. The Wolfpack Women have not had one since 1991.
 
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#20
#20
JohnnyPayne said:
And her AD was fired and Debbie Yow was brought in as the new AD. She supposedly fired 7 coaches in 2 years.
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RALEIGH, N.C. — NC State Athletics concluded a historic 2017-18 athletic/academic year, placing 15th in the nation in the Learfield Directors' Cup standings and reaching its organizational goal of having Top 25 status for the first time in program history.

The standing is the best finish ever for the Wolfpack in Learfield Sports Directors' Cup Standings.

NC State finishes 15th in final Directors' Cup standings :: WRALSportsFan.com
 
#22
#22
SmokyRiverDog said:
This is the part I struggle with in this story. First, I hope KJH does a fabulous job here. I really like her a lot. That being said, I do not think she has a resume worthy of being hired for the Lady Vols job. Everyone talks about the lack of players and the recruiting at NC State. Wes Moore immediately started winning with basically the same team. Then, the next excuse is about the AD and supposed resentment towards the hire of KJH. If the issue was that she wanted the assistant hired, then why was Moore hired and not the assistant that was so desperately wanted to succeed Yow?
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NCST went 13-17, 5-9 in ACC conference, the year before Kellie. Her first year there was her best and they went 20-14, 7-7 in conference, and went to the NCAA Tournament. Kellie’s record in conference was 5th, 10th, 9th, and 7th. To compare, Wes’s record in conference is 4th, 9th, 6th, 4th, 4th, and 3rd.
 
#25
#25
Raebo said:
A couple reasons, Kay Yow wanted her assistant, Stephanie Glance, to succeed her but AD selected Kellie. Kellie had initial good year but failed to get any top recruits and record went downhill and missed NCAAW tournament. Kellie’s last year they lost first 7 games in ACC play. Lost to James Madison in second round of WNIT and was fired by Kay’s sister Debbie who was then the AD. (Debbie fired 6 other coaches in 2 years.)
Kellie didn’t have a good record at NCState but a lot of times IMO it comes down to a “right fit” for a coach to be successful so hopefully, it will be a right fit at UT.
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Wasn't Glance on Pat's staff at one time?
 
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