What was Kellie's problem at N.C. State?

#26
#26
Raebo said:
A couple reasons, Kay Yow wanted her assistant, Stephanie Glance, to succeed her but AD selected Kellie. Kellie had initial good year but failed to get any top recruits and record went downhill and missed NCAAW tournament. Kellie’s last year they lost first 7 games in ACC play. Lost to James Madison in second round of WNIT and was fired by Kay’s sister Debbie who was then the AD. (Debbie fired 6 other coaches in 2 years.)
Kellie didn’t have a good record at NCState but a lot of times IMO it comes down to a “right fit” for a coach to be successful so hopefully, it will be a right fit at UT.
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Somebody was doing something wrong!
 
#30
#30
You might have a good to great plan, but sometimes luck and other factors can’t be willed good for you. Bill Belichick was still a young coach, but an established genius as a DC when he took over the Cleveland Browns. Staff full of future HC’s and GM’s (including an equally young Nick Saban) in a football crazed city. Had what would become his future system for the Patriots off and running, but on his way to winning and legendary status? He dumped Bernie Kosar for Vinnie Testaverde. Gets past the local outrage and seems on his way to the beginning of his legacy and...Art Modell moves the team to Baltimore. Even after he received a second chance in Foxboro, he started off with a losing season and was having a meh second season until his established franchise QB gets his kidney lacerated. Backup enters and the team gels and off they run to the playoffs. If that same kid doesn’t get bailed out by a ref call after fumbling against the Raiders, he doesn’t lead them to an upset against the Rams and the odds of that Belichick dynasty drop considerably. You can be a potentially great coach but sometimes things have to happen for you outside your personal acumen. Sorry to use a football analogy for this, but I’m a Vols fan not familiar enough with other examples across women’s basketball.
 
#36
#36
teacherdean said:
Who really knows and why it so important that we are even discussing this?
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You don't have to. There are other threads. You can even start a thread about what losers we are for participating in this thread. The beauty of message boards.

Of course I know it won't change anything, its water under, etc., but the reason her time at NC State is important to me is I want to understand what happened so I can find out none of it was her fault and I'll feel alot better about her record. Hell I want an excuse for every single game she ever lost. Not really but I just basically want to feel better about her past performance doing the actual thing, coaching games.

I love how she's started out, her public appearances, keeping the team together, all the LV promotion of her, her cute fam, the tradition, all of it. Then I remember that other part, the actual winning games. Truthfully, she's never been impressively successful at that, bottom line. Doesn't mean she can't, and Lord knows if any 15 yr coach ever sprouted wings, it would be under KJH current circumstances. But still, I worry. So I over dissect and over discuss.
 
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#42
#42
There were multiple factors that contributed. Not 1 or 2 specific things can be pin pointed. Truth is, most coaches struggle at some point, especially early on. Geno was 43-39 in his 1st 3 seasons, had a losing record his 1st yr, and followed those up a few years later with (2) 11 loss seasons. Coaches learn and grow over time. Then, when they get the right players and it starts to come together, recruiting gets easier, thus making winning easier. Hopefully KJH has done her struggling and this will be her rise to the top!
 
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#43
#43
glv98 said:
You don't have to. There are other threads. You can even start a thread about what losers we are for participating in this thread. The beauty of message boards.

Of course I know it won't change anything, its water under, etc., but the reason her time at NC State is important to me is I want to understand what happened so I can find out none of it was her fault and I'll feel alot better about her record. Hell I want an excuse for every single game she ever lost. Not really but I just basically want to feel better about her past performance doing the actual thing, coaching games.

I love how she's started out, her public appearances, keeping the team together, all the LV promotion of her, her cute fam, the tradition, all of it. Then I remember that other part, the actual winning games. Truthfully, she's never been impressively successful at that, bottom line. Doesn't mean she can't, and Lord knows if any 15 yr coach ever sprouted wings, it would be under KJH current circumstances. But still, I worry. So I over dissect and over discuss.
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What you are feeling is called uncertainty. For now, I accept KJH's explanation that she was young and the job proved to be bigger than what she was prepared for but that she a learned a lot from that experience. She says quite confidently that she is now a very different coach and that she is ready to take the Lady vols back to an elite competitive level.

All that said, she is the LVs coach and we can all take some confidence in the very impressive manner she has handled a challenging transition.

Only time will answer the ultimate question about what she can deliver as LV coach.
 
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#44
#44
NC State is in a tough position - closer to Duke and UNC than UT is to Vandy, NC State is #3 in basketball. A tough 3rd choice for local players.
Kay Yow was there forever and cancer claimed her as it did Jim Volvano - very public and a very long fight.
Kellie had success at WNC - a tiny school nested in the foothills 50 miles south of Asheville, NC. Kellie moved there from an assistant coaching gig at Chattanooga. Her success led to the NC State offer. Moving up from the Southern Conference to the ACC is no picnic but taking on the NC State job in those circumstances was a tough choice.
Kay Yow spent 34 years at NC State and 5 at Elon with a .682 winning percentage and 7 Sweet 16 runs - never higher. The final 3 years were:
2006–07 NC State 15-4 NCAA Sweet 16
2007–08 NC State 21-13 Women's NIT Semifinals
2008–09 NC State 8-7
Inheriting that situation with Kay's sister as the AD wasn't a good move.

Missouri State finished the regular season 20-9 (16-2 MVC), after starting the season 1-7. inc 3 point losses to Missouri (SEC) and Gonzaga.
Harper was voted the Missouri Valley Conference Coach of the Year for her efforts. She became the first Missouri State coach to win the award since Cheryl Burnett in 1994. Harper's team received an 11-seed in the Chicago Region. Harper's Lady Bears made the Sweet Sixteen with upset wins over 6-seed DePaul and 3-seed Iowa State played in Ames, Iowa. The Lady Bears fell to 2-seed Stanford in the Sweet Sixteen.
Harper was named the Kay Yow Coach of the Year award winner for 2019 (the irony)
 
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#45
#45
madtownvol said:
What you are feeling is called uncertainty. For now, I accept KJH's explanation that she was young and the job proved to be bigger than what she was prepared for but that she a learned a lot from that experience. She says quite confidently that she is now a very different coach and that she is ready to take the Lady vols back to an elite competitive level.

All that said, she is the LVs coach and we can all take some confidence in the very impressive manner she has handled a challenging transition.

Only time will answer the ultimate question about what she can deliver as LV coach.
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Well said. I think it's a good sign and important that Kellie addressed the question head on when asked and didn't make excuses or blame others for the lack of success at NC State. Initially, I wasn't sure if she was ready for this job, but her honesty and confidence have given cautious optimism that she has the right stuff. If that proves to be the case, her perseverance to improve and grow will be a great inspiration to other coaches.

As to her players, Jordan Horston commented that players have said that our team is anxious to redeem themselves. This may be a bonding element that is motivational for both coach and players...taking maximim advantage of a fresh start and the oppotunity to prove to themseves and doubters that they can excel at the highest level of WCBB.
 
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#46
#46
madtownvol said:
For now, I accept KJH's explanation that she was young and the job proved to be bigger than what she was prepared for but that she a learned a lot from that experience. She says quite confidently that she is now a very different coach
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Herein lies the root of my uncertainty: her record shows she was not a very different coach. For a decade.

Far be it from me to be all about the record; I've argued non stop that Holly's record is not representative of her coaching ability. Also I totally get that KJH has never had the resources and opportunity she now has. She very well may sprout elite level coaching wings and fly, I sure hope she does. Also of course we won't know for a while. But still, a 15 yr coaching record that barely breaks even gonna worry me.

I often see KJH referred to as a "young" coach. 15 yrs in? 40 yrs old? Is that young in coaching years?
 
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#47
#47
glv98 said:
I often see KJH referred to as a "young" coach. 15 yrs in? 40 yrs old? Is that young in coaching years?
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I think most who say that are speaking relatively compared to Vanderveer, McGraw, Auriemma, Moore, and others who are achieving or have reached senior citizen status.

Graves and Mulkey are mid-50's. Frese, Staley, Walz, and even Baby Face Reuck are late 40's.
 
#48
#48
glv98 said:
Herein lies the root of my uncertainty: her record shows she was not a very different coach. For a decade.

Far be it from me to be all about the record; I've argued non stop that Holly's record is not representative of her coaching ability. Also I totally get that KJH has never had the resources and opportunity she now has. She very well may sprout elite level coaching wings and fly, I sure hope she does. Also of course we won't know for a while. But still, a 15 yr coaching record that barely breaks even gonna worry me.

I often see KJH referred to as a "young" coach. 15 yrs in? 40 yrs old? Is that young in coaching years?
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It was a fair to say she was a young coach at Western NC and NC St. Not so much now, for a woman in her early 40's. She is comparatively young to the legends, like Geno, Tara, and Muffet, but she has now been around the block.
 
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#49
#49
CincyLadyVol said:
Wasn't Glance on Pat's staff at one time?
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Yes. Glance was an AC at NC State, then became the interim HC when Kay Yow became unable to coach. When KJH was somewhat unexpectedly hired as HC, Glance obviously was let go, and CPS brought her to Tenn as a "special assistant" for one year 09-10, and then Glance got a position as HC at Illinois State the next year.
 
#50
#50
FrozenLVFan said:
Yes. Glance was an AC at NC State, then became the interim HC when Kay Yow became unable to coach. When KJH was somewhat unexpectedly hired as HC, Glance obviously was let go, and CPS brought her to Tenn as a "special assistant" for one year 09-10, and then Glance got a position as HC at Illinois State the next year.
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This situation will be the example of the saying :
"You don't want to be the one replacing a legend,
you want to be the one replacing the one who, replaced a legend"
 
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