Which seniors are eligible to return next season?

#27
#27
MCScots4 said:
We had SHOOTERS, we just need some good shooters ha. I'd like to have someone not afraid to attack the rim.
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No doubt. Key was supposed to be one but his shooting % plummeted this year from his historical %. Same with James Daniel a few years back. Led the nation in scoring, came here and disappeared.

IDK if it is the change in competition, the focus on defensive intensity, these guys were “fool’s gold” or something else. At any rate, both pretty disappointing IMO. Maybe try for a bonafide P5 scorer who already plays strong defense (like looking for a unicorn, I know)?
 
#28
#28
camp_steveo said:
Tennessee basketball: Vols have five seniors, but Rick Barnes only loses Tyreke Key to eligibility



Dave Hooker and Caleb Calhoun both think there's a good chance they all come back, or at least that they all should come back for NIL money because none of them are likely to make money in the NBA as it stands today.

I like the idea of having them all back.

This was actually a good team that had to deal with quite a few setbacks, not to mention losing ZZ at the end of the season. With ZZ, the Vols would probably still be in it TBH.
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No...hell no. PLEASE no.
 
#29
#29
Tenacjim said:
No doubt. Key was supposed to be one but his shooting % plummeted this year from his historical %. Same with James Daniel a few years back. Led the nation in scoring, came here and disappeared.

IDK if it is the change in competition, the focus on defensive intensity, these guys were “fool’s gold” or something else. At any rate, both pretty disappointing IMO. Maybe try for a bonafide P5 scorer who already plays strong defense (like looking for a unicorn, I know)?
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When we see how things change from early in the year to the end and we see it on an annual basis, it's hard not to think that it's the system and not the players. The way Barnes coaches and his demands for ultimate effort on defense every trip down the floor will wear on a team. I think this has a lot to do with guys like Key and Phillips starting off so well only to disappear as the season wears on instead of getting better and more productive. Might be why guys like JJJ and ON are regularly in invisible mode. When you consider Barnes lack of success late in the year with some of the teams/talent he's had at Texas and at UT, it's really the only consistent and common thing. It's Barnes and his system. Can't explain it any other way except maybe a career of crappy luck? If someone has a more plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. For me, it's like a race horse who's always first out of the gate and run hard. By the time, he hits the turn for home and the stretch run, he's got nothing left in the tank and the other horses easily overtake him. He's a pace horse never a winner.
 
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#31
#31
Vescovi would be great for that veteran shooter who can also handle the ball. The rest of them, not so much. I thought JJJ would go down as one of the best to play. Granted, injuries slowed him down. ON showed how much this game is mental. The right coach could possibly unlock him. Barnes didn’t.

If you looked at the overall ranking of those seniors (excluding Key) and factor that they all played their senior year, you’d certainly expect something more than one S16.
 
#32
#32
CAVPUT said:
When we see how things change from early in the year to the end and we see it on an annual basis, it's hard not to think that it's the system and not the players. The way Barnes coaches and his demands for ultimate effort on defense every trip down the floor will wear on a team. I think this has a lot to do with guys like Key and Phillips starting off so well only to disappear as the season wears on instead of getting better and more productive. Might be why guys like JJJ and ON are regularly in invisible mode. When you consider Barnes lack of success late in the year with some of the teams/talent he's had at Texas and at UT, it's really the only consistent and common thing. It's Barnes and his system. Can't explain it any other way except maybe a career of crappy luck? If someone has a more plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. For me, it's like a race horse who's always first out of the gate and run hard. By the time, he hits the turn for home and the stretch run, he's got nothing left in the tank and the other horses easily overtake him. He's a pace horse never a winner.
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I'm not sold yet if it's the system but the racehorse analogy earned you a like.
 
#33
#33
CAVPUT said:
When we see how things change from early in the year to the end and we see it on an annual basis, it's hard not to think that it's the system and not the players. The way Barnes coaches and his demands for ultimate effort on defense every trip down the floor will wear on a team. I think this has a lot to do with guys like Key and Phillips starting off so well only to disappear as the season wears on instead of getting better and more productive. Might be why guys like JJJ and ON are regularly in invisible mode. When you consider Barnes lack of success late in the year with some of the teams/talent he's had at Texas and at UT, it's really the only consistent and common thing. It's Barnes and his system. Can't explain it any other way except maybe a career of crappy luck? If someone has a more plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. For me, it's like a race horse who's always first out of the gate and run hard. By the time, he hits the turn for home and the stretch run, he's got nothing left in the tank and the other horses easily overtake him. He's a pace horse never a winner.
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I truly believe this and have done so for a while.
I have said this for the last 3 years and echoed your theory. This team is worn down by the time the Tournaments hit. Last year to win the SEC tournament was exceptional. The fact that we could not close out games this past year was an indicator starting in late January unless it was a mismatch. They looked worn out this year at the end of the season. BTO stated this argument was bad, but I am glad someone else recognized this as well.

I judge the team's wellness based on Vescovi's eyes. The darker they get the worse we play as a team. He is exceptional and can handle the grind the others cannot. Vescovi always has fuel in his tank it appears but pushes it through the grind. ZZ never tires and is like the Energizer Bunny.
 
#34
#34
Sudden Impact said:
I truly believe this and have done so for a while.
I have said this for the last 3 years and echoed your theory. This team is worn down by the time the Tournaments hit. Last year to win the SEC tournament was exceptional. The fact that we could not close out games this past year was an indicator starting in late January unless it was a mismatch. They looked worn out this year at the end of the season. BTO stated this argument was bad, but I am glad someone else recognized this as well.

I judge the team's wellness based on Vescovi's eyes. The darker they get the worse we play as a team. He is exceptional and can handle the grind the others cannot. Vescovi always has fuel in his tank it appears but pushes it through the grind. ZZ never tires and is like the Energizer Bunny.
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The other thing I tend to look for is our shooting especially FTs. Now we might just have more than our fair share of guys who are poor shooters, but I'd still have to think fatigue played a role in a lot of our struggles. Hey, Barnes has won a lot of games using his style. Sadly, they aren't coming in the tournament for him, but if he's going to keep that style and it's clear he will, you'd have to think he'd try to build and use depth on his roster. I'm not saying go with the 5 in 5 out model, but he's got to control the minutes his guys play. Maybe lose a few more during the season is the price we have to pay for going deeper into the bench, but the flip side is fresher legs come march and maybe an injury or two can be mitigate to a degree? Dunno, but Barnes history speaks for itself, and the definition of insanity keeps swirling through my mind. But who am I to question a future HOF coach who's earning 6M a year?
 
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#36
#36
CAVPUT said:
The other thing I tend to look for is our shooting especially FTs. Now we might just have more than our fair share of guys who are poor shooters, but I'd still have to think fatigue played a role in a lot of our struggles. Hey, Barnes has won a lot of games using his style. Sadly, they aren't coming in the tournament for him, but if he's going to keep that style and it's clear he will, you'd have to think he'd try to build and use depth on his roster. I'm not saying go with the 5 in 5 out model, but he's got to control the minutes his guys play. Maybe lose a few more during the season is the price we have to pay for going deeper into the bench, but the flip side is fresher legs come march and maybe an injury or two can be mitigate to a degree? Dunno, but Barnes history speaks for itself, and the definition of insanity keeps swirling through my mind. But who am I to question a future HOF coach who's earning 6M a year?
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Totally agree. The energy consumed on the Defensive Side of the ball affects the efficiency of the Offense. The Offense in my opinion is just as Physically demanding as the Defense with the motion and screens. It proves your point that as the season progresses we run out of steam/fuel.

The 2018 - 2019 team(?) 31-6 was the best team (Williams and Schofield with a Turner & Bone) running the point. I think Turner was injured for most of the year (maybe wrong). Best team we ever had under CRBs and could handle the Physically of Offense and Defense of a CRB's type team. 2 bad calls (@lsu & Purdue (NCAA) resulted in losses that year.

So yes I totally agree with you and see what you do as well. The NCAA tournament is about Seeding, Officials and conditioning. My biggest surprise is how dominate UCONN has been this season in the tournament.

Edit: I had forgotten about Alexander and Fulkerson and Pons
 
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#37
#37
CAVPUT said:
When we see how things change from early in the year to the end and we see it on an annual basis, it's hard not to think that it's the system and not the players. The way Barnes coaches and his demands for ultimate effort on defense every trip down the floor will wear on a team. I think this has a lot to do with guys like Key and Phillips starting off so well only to disappear as the season wears on instead of getting better and more productive. Might be why guys like JJJ and ON are regularly in invisible mode. When you consider Barnes lack of success late in the year with some of the teams/talent he's had at Texas and at UT, it's really the only consistent and common thing. It's Barnes and his system. Can't explain it any other way except maybe a career of crappy luck? If someone has a more plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. For me, it's like a race horse who's always first out of the gate and run hard. By the time, he hits the turn for home and the stretch run, he's got nothing left in the tank and the other horses easily overtake him. He's a pace horse never a winner.
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I've thought this for a while, too. You need a very deep rotation to make this work.
 
#39
#39
Sudden Impact said:
I truly believe this and have done so for a while.
I have said this for the last 3 years and echoed your theory. This team is worn down by the time the Tournaments hit. Last year to win the SEC tournament was exceptional. The fact that we could not close out games this past year was an indicator starting in late January unless it was a mismatch. They looked worn out this year at the end of the season. BTO stated this argument was bad, but I am glad someone else recognized this as well.

I judge the team's wellness based on Vescovi's eyes. The darker they get the worse we play as a team. He is exceptional and can handle the grind the others cannot. Vescovi always has fuel in his tank it appears but pushes it through the grind. ZZ never tires and is like the Energizer Bunny.
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Perhaps they were worn down, but it might be emotional or mental exhaustion. The people around you can drain the vitality out of you ... Jack Canfield calls those types of people 'black holes.' They only suck life from you and never energize you.
Santi and ZZ may be more a function of drive and excellence being part of their DNA....is what gives them that bounce.
I do not see that drive ... that will ... that determination .... to constantly perform at or near the top of their physical ability ... in the other players.
JJJ, I assume was less than 100% and just was physically unable to do it. Some were too young.
But the head cases, .... time for them to move on to another counselor.
There are people who hurt 'team' because of their attitude, inconsistence, funk, etc.
I think we had some clunky parts on this years team.
 
#40
#40
i2amavol said:
I have enjoyed watching them all, but I am emotionally ready for them to move on. Having said that, it would be nice to have a couple of them come back to provide some leadership. I mean, how often to Barnes coached teams do well when they don't have a bunch of veterans?
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Could have 1 or 2 of them Grey shirt heard 1of incoming freshman has injury anyway. That would give room for all to come back if they even want them.
 
#41
#41
CAVPUT said:
The other thing I tend to look for is our shooting especially FTs. Now we might just have more than our fair share of guys who are poor shooters, but I'd still have to think fatigue played a role in a lot of our struggles. Hey, Barnes has won a lot of games using his style. Sadly, they aren't coming in the tournament for him, but if he's going to keep that style and it's clear he will, you'd have to think he'd try to build and use depth on his roster. I'm not saying go with the 5 in 5 out model, but he's got to control the minutes his guys play. Maybe lose a few more during the season is the price we have to pay for going deeper into the bench, but the flip side is fresher legs come march and maybe an injury or two can be mitigate to a degree? Dunno, but Barnes history speaks for itself, and the definition of insanity keeps swirling through my mind. But who am I to question a future HOF coach who's earning 6M a year?
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Maybe Barnes should have played players like BJE and Awaka more during those 20+ blowout games instead of leaving the starters in until the last 2-3 minutes.
 
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#42
#42
CAVPUT said:
When we see how things change from early in the year to the end and we see it on an annual basis, it's hard not to think that it's the system and not the players. The way Barnes coaches and his demands for ultimate effort on defense every trip down the floor will wear on a team. I think this has a lot to do with guys like Key and Phillips starting off so well only to disappear as the season wears on instead of getting better and more productive. Might be why guys like JJJ and ON are regularly in invisible mode. When you consider Barnes lack of success late in the year with some of the teams/talent he's had at Texas and at UT, it's really the only consistent and common thing. It's Barnes and his system. Can't explain it any other way except maybe a career of crappy luck? If someone has a more plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. For me, it's like a race horse who's always first out of the gate and run hard. By the time, he hits the turn for home and the stretch run, he's got nothing left in the tank and the other horses easily overtake him. He's a pace horse never a winner.
Click to expand...

I've said this a few times recently, but this is something the sports media in Austin would speculate about during Barnes's tenture there. I lived near Austin for much of his run; I got to hear it all the time. Every time they'd lose in March, the same thing - Texas looked tired, looked worn down, looked tentative, looked like they didn't want to take the shots. All over the sports radio down there. Oh, sure, some years, a bit better than others, but it was always the same kind of rhetorical conversation every offseason. "Why does Texas always look like their legs are gone in March?" So on, so forth.

Is it Barnes? Is it his system? Is it just the luck of the draw? Personnel decisions? I can't say, I'm not in their practices, I don't see them day to day, so I don't know. The only thing I know is that the questions about exhaustion and confidence were a consistent point brought up almost every year. Perhaps one could say that, regardless of the causes, the fact these things seem consistent is certainly worth thinking about.

Also - disclaimer - I'm not saying FAHR BARNES or anything. No FAHR BARNES here. Just - it was a common thing to discuss even fifteen years ago.
 
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#43
#43
cncchris33 said:
Well, Dave and Caleb are proving how dumb they are. They can't all come back. Most of their spots are committed to incoming freshmen. We only have two open spots unless we have any unforeseen attrition. And outside of Vescovi, I don't know that any of the others would be welcome back unless we completely strike out in the portal. And then it's probably, in order, JJJ, Nkamhoua, Uros in terms of preference. Nkamhoua is the most needed but also the moat vexing of the three. He provides what we need, an inside scorer, but he is so inconsistent and prefers playing finesse offense.
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Well, Dave and Caleb may be smarter than you seem to think because players who take their extra Covid year don't count against the 13 roster limit. Unless that rule has changed, you could have up to 16 (since Olivier has already departed).
 
#44
#44
cthvolsfan said:
Well, Dave and Caleb may be smarter than you seem to think because players who take their extra Covid year don't count against the 13 roster limit. Unless that rule has changed, you could have up to 16 (since Olivier has already departed).
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Wrong, that was a 1 year waiver, they counted last year and they’ll count this year, and each year going forward. So back to Dave & Caleb being dumb.
 
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#45
#45
bleedingTNorange said:
Wrong, that was a 1 year waiver, they counted last year and they’ll count this year, and each year going forward. So back to Dave & Caleb being dumb.
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If I’m not mistaken, these group of 4 seniors (3 now with Olivier transferring) are the last guys currently on the roster that have a covid year right?
 
#47
#47
cthvolsfan said:
Well, Dave and Caleb may be smarter than you seem to think because players who take their extra Covid year don't count against the 13 roster limit. Unless that rule has changed, you could have up to 16 (since Olivier has already departed).
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