White House philosophy stoked mortgage bonfire

Who do you blame for the mortgage mess?

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#76
#76
It is absurd to pretend Bush had anything whatsoever to do with the market that continued to absorb ever shakier mortgages even in light of deteriorating conditions.
 
#77
#77
oklavol said:
That's my problem, "some portion of blame" should be "most of the blame" for this failed policy.

Again from 2004, USATODAY.com - Bush ties his economic policies to home ownership



That really sounds like a President who was pushing reforms in the mortgage industry. But that's how you try to portray Bush.
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MG1968 beat me to it.

So what blame do you place on Freddie and Fannie, not to mention those dems who took so much money from them and defended their practices saying there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie.

The sooner you admit this problem was started decades ago and made worse with each president who took office after the sooner you will enjoy the satisfaction of understanding the problem and it's causes instead of blind contempt for one individual.
 
#78
#78
I find it incredibly ironic that many of the folks blaming the Government entirely for the housing meltdown are the same ones that probably hate the idea of "Big Brother".
 
#79
#79
This whole thread is about as asinine as it gets.

One last shot at Bush in order to cast Obama as the victim.

I would call it juvenile except it's just too stupid for that.

Want to cure the whole problem immediately?

Then invoke the stipulation in the original Federal Reserve Act that says all profits are to be returned to the US Treasury Department and then audit the Fed, which has not ever been audited in it's 95 year history.

The scary thing about that is Obama, Pelosi and Reid spending all that money in the next four years, freaky proposition of epic proportions.
 
#80
#80
gsvol said:
This whole thread is about as asinine as it gets.

One last shot at Bush in order to cast Obama as the victim.
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The only thing asinine about this thread, is the fact that anyone would be defending Bush at this point. He's the most unpopular President in history, and an overwhelming majority of people are glad he's leaving.
 
#81
#81
oklavol said:
The only thing asinine about this thread, is the fact that anyone would be defending Bush at this point. He's the most unpopular President in history, and an overwhelming majority of people are glad he's leaving.
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we're defending Bush from an incredibly biased attack that is completely devoid of any objective reality or intellectual honesty.
 
#82
#82
oklavol said:
The only thing asinine about this thread, is the fact that anyone would be defending Bush at this point. He's the most unpopular President in history, and an overwhelming majority of people are glad he's leaving.
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That is not the issue we are arguing though is it? I am not defending Bush in the least. I am saying that you, by attributing the vast majority of blame to one man are not being intellectually honest on the this issue. The fact that you cannot admit there is blame to be spread out equally between at least a couple of presidents, congress, Freddie and Fannie, home buyers is laughable and disturbing to most thinking individuals who understand the mess and its causes.
 
#83
#83
I think this mess can be laid at the feet of Bob Saget. I agree with FV on this one.
 
#84
#84
KB5252 said:
That is not the issue we are arguing though is it? I am not defending Bush in the least. I am saying that you, by attributing the vast majority of blame to one man are not being intellectually honest on the this issue. The fact that you cannot admit there is blame to be spread out equally between at least a couple of presidents, congress, Freddie and Fannie, home buyers is laughable and disturbing to most thinking individuals who understand the mess and its causes.
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That last post was directed at GS, he's the one upset at Bush getting parting shots as he leaves office.

Again, Bush pushed home ownership his entire Presidency, particularly during his re-election.

You act like the majority of the loans that failed were made 10-15 years ago even 30 years ago, under Clinton or Carter's administration. That's ridiculous.

Nobody who has owned a home for 10 yrs is going to walk away from it because they owe more then its worth.

The people doing that have owned their home less then 5 years.
 
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#85
#85
KB5252 said:
That is not the issue we are arguing though is it? I am not defending Bush in the least. I am saying that you, by attributing the vast majority of blame to one man are not being intellectually honest on the this issue. The fact that you cannot admit there is blame to be spread out equally between at least a couple of presidents, congress, Freddie and Fannie, home buyers is laughable and disturbing to most thinking individuals who understand the mess and its causes.
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You are right. The problem is too many irresponsible home buyers and not enough people saving for a rainy day. We live in a country where many people would rather put their last $1500.00 toward a flat panel TV rather than in a savings account. If anything good comes out of the bad economy it will be the lesson many people learn about saving and buying within their means.
 
#86
#86
615 Vol said:
You are right. The problem is too many irresponsible home buyers and not enough people saving for a rainy day. We live in a country where many people would rather put their last $1500.00 toward a flat panel TV rather than in a savings account. If anything good comes out of the bad economy it will be the lesson many people learn about saving and buying within their means.
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I'm afraid that we as a nation will learn no lesson from all this except that the government can bail you out.

This is a problem throughout much of America. You have those with means biting off much more than they can chew and losing it all. You have those with no means that live on the government dole and would rather put their limited means into things like shiny cars and designer clothing.
 
#88
#88
oklavol said:
The only thing asinine about this thread, is the fact that anyone would be defending Bush at this point. He's the most unpopular President in history, and an overwhelming majority of people are glad he's leaving.
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The funny thing is that nobody has really defended Bush yet in this thread. Most of us just think the issue is too complex to lay blame at the feet of one man or one group.
 
#89
#89
GAVol said:
The funny thing is that nobody has really defended Bush yet in this thread. Most of us just think the issue is too complex to lay blame at the feet of one man or one group.
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why has that been hard to glean from what's here?
 
#90
#90
GAVol said:
The funny thing is that nobody has really defended Bush yet in this thread. Most of us just think the issue is too complex to lay blame at the feet of one man or one group.
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If they weren't against me pointing the finger at Bush there would have been no discussion.

Bush :the_finger:
 
#92
#92
oklavol said:
If they weren't against me pointing the finger at Bush there would have been no discussion.

Bush :the_finger:
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that's ridiculous. You would have had the same debate had you tried to lay the problem at the feet of any individual.

The bottom line is that underwriting standards existed for very good reasons and the whole market decided that some new investing paradigm made riskier standards more manageable and that the diversity of risk (though is wasn't the main diversity necessary in that geographic concentration was a huge problem) protected everyone even in the event of a total market revaluation.
 
#93
#93
oklavol said:
Gallup poll, he's the most unpopular President in history. Also polling shown ~75% are glad he's leaving office, compared to ~45% for Clinton.
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I must assume that poll was conducted during the time of George Washington and every single one of his successors.
 
#94
#94
oklavol said:
The only thing asinine about this thread, is the fact that anyone would be defending Bush at this point. He's the most unpopular President in history, and an overwhelming majority of people are glad he's leaving.
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Who's defending Bush? Here is the cause of the problem, whether or not Bush exacerbated the problem has not that much to do with the actual cause of the problem, do we not agree??
 
#95
#95
oklavol said:
If they weren't against me pointing the finger at Bush there would have been no discussion.

Bush :the_finger:
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No one is against you laying a portion of the blame at Bush's feet. We are simply pointing out that making him the scapegoat here is childish and one of the main reasons we in America don't really learn from mistakes of the past. Way too often we look for the scapegoat in a situation like this and say oh, he was the problem, we don't have to worry about that anymore because he is gone!

Is it starting to make sense now? There is plenty of fault to lay at Bush's feet, no need to attribute the majority of the blame to him when it is unwarranted.
 
#96
#96
Oklavol if we were to follow your logic then wouldn't Pelosi and company be just as much to blame since it boiled over under their watch? Surely it would be, after all they do enjoy an even lower approval rating than Bush.
 
#97
#97
KB5252 said:
Oklavol if we were to follow your logic then wouldn't Pelosi and company be just as much to blame since it boiled over under their watch? Surely it would be, after all they do enjoy an even lower approval rating than Bush.
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Don't be silly. Pelosi lowered fuel prices.
 
#99
#99
KB5252 said:
No one is against you laying a portion of the blame at Bush's feet. We are simply pointing out that making him the scapegoat here is childish and one of the main reasons we in America don't really learn from mistakes of the past. Way too often we look for the scapegoat in a situation like this and say oh, he was the problem, we don't have to worry about that anymore because he is gone!

Is it starting to make sense now? There is plenty of fault to lay at Bush's feet, no need to attribute the majority of the blame to him when it is unwarranted.
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Sample program. (oops, none of my functions are working) link address: Florida Foreign National Mortgage

About a week, maybe 2, after the sub prime mortgage crisis made the news, HUD (housing and urban development) reported that 5,000,000 mortgage loans were made to illegal aliens.

It was reported only once and never repeated.

Say the average loan was $100,000 @ 5,000,000 = $500,000,000,000. Read that at 500 Billion dollars.
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Oh there's one other cost of illegals that has gone generally unnoticed. Calling the Old Media: Five Million Illegals Have Illegal Mortgages in U.S.A.!

MALKIN: Illegal immigrant factor

Once again its helpful to provide some maps and stats: Look at the map where those who owe more than the house is worth. Notice any similarities to the unemployment picture and concentrations of illegals

A good place for detailed accounts of mortgage fraud is a blog called Mortgage Fraud which bills itself as "the central clearing house on mortgage fraud schemes indictments and prevention"

Calling the Old Media: Five Million Illegals Have Illegal Mortgages in U.S.A.! Our source for that story, a retired agent from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, stands by those numbers. A person from Housing and Urban Development contacted KFYI to tell us the number was inaccurate, that there were only 2.3 million mortgages held by immigrants, so there was no way that 5 million illegals could have mortgages.
However, HUD cries foul over illegal immigrant mortgage data

Despite Illegal Status, Buyers Get Home Loans

N.Va. Foreclosures Form 'Ring of Fire' But drive with Thompson through the hardest-hit areas of Prince William County -- the epicenter of the region's foreclosure trouble -- and the loss of value has been precipitous. By and large, those properties are concentrated in lower-priced areas and Zip codes where many immigrants bought homes in recent years, often with subprime mortgages and other risky arrangements that required little down payment or documentation. In Northern Virginia and especially Prince William, many buyers were Hispanic immigrants.

And now we have the mortgage crisis, which has sent a shock wave through Wall Street and panicked world financial markets like no other since the stock market crash of 1929. But this is a problem created in Washington long ago. It originated with the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), signed into law in 1977 by President Jimmy Carter. The CRA was Carter's answer to a grassroots activist movement started in Chicago, and forced banks to make loans to low income, high risk customers. PhD economist and former Texas Senator Phil Gramm has called it: "a vast extortion scheme against the nation's banks."

Immigration Counters tells it by the numbers Sadly Illegal Immigrants To Get Next Bailout.

(I'll have to reboot and edit in all the links provided with the above info, patience please)gs

KB5252 said:
I see now, Pelosi's plan to lower gas prices was tied to the meltdown of the economy. She finally delivered, she is a brilliant lady.
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Pelosi is smarter than she looks, (I know, not something to write home about), but what if her sinister plan comes to fruition???

OK, we know Obama is young but how about his parents? Right, both died young and longevity is in many cases hereditary.

PLUS, we know that 'Rosary Joe' has suffered at least two brain aneurysms, either of which could have killed him and explains why he thinks so slow and has a habit of putting his foot in his mouth.

What happens when BHO croaks and Biden kicks the bucket????

I can just see Nancy now taking the oath of office with her hands on her hips saying, "OK Hillary, who's the smartest woman in the world NOW??"
 
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