why are we drilling so deep anyways

#26
#26
joevol320 said:
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying the earth will recover but it will not take hundreds of years like people think.
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How many decades shall the oyster and shrimp fishermen wait?

Still no herring in Prince William Sound...
 
#27
#27
droski said:
the same exact issue happens in the power industry too. it's extremely common for people to switch roles. obama implying this has something to do with the spill is ridiculous. or should the prior 60 years without a spill be completely disregarded?
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The fact that it's a widespread practice (also with the TSA) doesn't make it right. Though, the fact that he's bringing up other administrations is completely petty.

As far as I know it has nothing to do with who is President and who is in Congress or the Senate. These nominations are done without Congressional or Senatorial oversight... so it's completely asinine to blame the administration that it took place in.


Other nations have been operating deepwater drilling for decades and they've had rig disasters... without having a field blow-back. The reasons why the Horizon did absolutely needs to be investigated and those responsible, corporate and government, should absolutely pay.
 
#28
#28
DC Vol said:
Brazil and Norway both require acoustic triggers... Norway since 1993. They might not have been "tested" in the strict sense because at least with other rig disasters (Horizon isn't the worst) the primary shut-offs worked... which those didn't for Horizon. Shell and several other oil companies use the acoustic triggers as well... even if not required.
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but that's the point. this was a special situation where multiple other failsafes failed. why are we assuming this one of all of them would have worked? looks to me like the primary problem here was a BP manager overriding already in place regulations for safety which resulted in an explosion far above what would have happened if they were following the regulations. that's a criminal issue. not a lack of regulation.
 
#29
#29
IPorange said:
How many decades shall the oyster and shrimp fishermen wait?

Still no herring in Prince William Sound...
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it shouldn't be a big deal. our government pays farmers not to farm, they might as well pay fishermen not to fish. I'm not being serius, but the fact is that if this happened on land, it would have been plug within in hours.
 
#32
#32
droski said:
but that's the point. this was a special situation where multiple other failsafes failed. why are we assuming this one of all of them would have worked? looks to me like the primary problem here was a BP manager overriding already in place regulations for safety which resulted in an explosion far above what would have happened if they were following the regulations. that's a criminal issue. not a lack of regulation.
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I agree with it being a criminal issue and not a matter of regulation, but from a nongovernmental standpoint, it makes you wonder if more couldn't have been done to independently monitor and keep the rig functioning within acceptable guidelines. I am not advocating more government regulation, but rather wondering why BP or whoever isn't keeping these guys on a tighter leash.
 
#33
#33
IPorange said:
How many decades shall the oyster and shrimp fishermen wait?

Still no herring in Prince William Sound...
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Don't you dare try and bring up facts in the middle of this whargarrbling and rabble rabbling.

For those too lazy or ignorant, IPorange is referencing the Exxon Valdez.
 
#34
#34
IPorange said:
I agree with it being a criminal issue and not a matter of regulation, but from a nongovernmental standpoint, it makes you wonder if more couldn't have been done to independently monitor and keep the rig functioning within acceptable guidelines. I am not advocating more government regulation, but rather wondering why BP or whoever isn't keeping these guys on a tighter leash.
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i'm all for additional failsafes and monitoring. it's when this turns into "see this is why we shouldn't be drilling" that i start getting annoyed.
 
#35
#35
droski said:
i'm all for additional failsafes and monitoring. it's when this turns into "see this is why we shouldn't be drilling" that i start getting annoyed.
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Obviously it is an economic reality that we have to drill at this time. But it is also a reality that we have to get away from this crap eventually. And this is an accident that should have never ever have happened. That is something that shouldn't be ignored.
 
#36
#36
IPorange said:
Obviously it is an economic reality that we have to drill at this time. But it is also a reality that we have to get away from this crap eventually. And this is an accident that should have never ever have happened. That is something that shouldn't be ignored.
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s- happens. we need to not turn this into something it isn't. statistically we are still far more likely to get a spill from transporting oil than from drilling for oil.
 
#37
#37
droski said:
but that's the point. this was a special situation where multiple other failsafes failed. why are we assuming this one of all of them would have worked? looks to me like the primary problem here was a BP manager overriding already in place regulations for safety which resulted in an explosion far above what would have happened if they were following the regulations. that's a criminal issue. not a lack of regulation.
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As far as I'm concerned there should be multiple fail-safes in place to keep these sorts of matters from occuring.

Regardless, if an acoustic trigger could have prevented the blow-back... this would all be an afterthought. This was brought up in an MMS contracted report in 2003 (among other blow-back prevention measures) that were summarily dismissed by the MMS. Whether or not the BP/MMS relationship played a role in that remains to be seen, I suppose.

You are right though, there seems a definite degree of criminal negligence here. However is it only on BP? I doubt it. I'm not familiar with the government inspection and lines of communication between operator and regulator... but there is obviously a serious gaff here and it's likely on both sides.
 
#38
#38
DC Vol said:
You are right though, there seems a definite degree of criminal negligence here. However is it only on BP? I doubt it. I'm not familiar with the government inspection and lines of communication between operator and regulator... but there is obviously a serious gaff here and it's likely on both sides.
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from most accounts BPs guy overrided the transocean guys on the rig to keep the drill on time. of course transocean has a pretty big incentive to leak such a story and their people there shouldn't have let BP make that decision.

it appears this was a rogue situation and the higher ups at BP weren't advised of the situation.
 
#39
#39
droski said:
from most accounts BPs guy overrided the transocean guys on the rig to keep the drill on time. of course transocean has a pretty big incentive to leak such a story and their people there shouldn't have let BP make that decision.

it appears this was a rogue situation and the higher ups at BP weren't advised of the situation.
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That still doesn't change the fact that whatever blow-back prevention measures that the Horizon had in place utterly failed. If proper inspections of the rig's equipment was done this might not have been a problem. If BP thinks the s*$tstorm will be over when the leak gets plugged it, hopefully, is sorely mistaken.
 
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#40
#40
DC Vol said:
That still doesn't change the fact that whatever blow-back prevention measures that the Horizon had in place utterly failed. If proper inspections of the rig's equipment was done this might not have been a problem. If BP thinks the s*$tstorm will be over when the leak gets plugged it, hopefully, is sorely mistaken.
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it failed because the explosion blew it all out. and no i'm sure the ****storm wont be over. though i'm not sure why you are calling for more blood than has been given.
 
#42
#42
joevol320 said:
if we didn't have to drill so deep or could drill on land, this oil spill would have been contained already.

a large of the blame should be on the government and environmental whackos.
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Because enviro wackos and democrats (in many cases those are one in the same) won't allow drilling in shallow waters close to shore, and even onshore, especially on the north slope in Alaska.

If the Obama regime in Washington really wanted to do anything other than profiteer and bankrupt America it could have used the same method used by Aramco in Saudi waters to siphon up 800 million gallons of oil and not lose any oil nor cause negative environmental impact but that would be too simple and would be an ecological disastor that is meant to shut down all american drilling as the three mile island (non) incident has been used to prevent more nuclear reactors being built in America for some thirty years or more.

Secondly the 'top kill' method has been half hearted at best and has been started and stopped several times because the use of chemical dispersants is much more profitable for some folks, namely NALCO of Chicago.

NALCO is associated with UChicago Argonne program. UChicago Argonne received $164 million dollars in stimulus funds this past year. UChicago Argonne just added two new executives to their roster. One from NALCO. The other from the Ill. Dept of Educaution.

If you dig a little deeper you will find NALCO is also associated with Warren Buffett, Maurice Strong, Al Gore, Soros, Apollo, Blackstone, Goldman Sachs and Hathaway Berkshire among others.

Warren Buffet /Hathaway Berkshire increased their holdings in NALCO just last November. (Timing is everything).

The dispersement chemical is known as Corexit. What it does is hold the oil below the water’s surface. It is supposed to break up the spill into smaller pools. It is toxic and banned in Europe.

conspiracy.jpg
 
#43
#43
nalco is the leader in water treatment filtering and that is why buffet among others (including myself) own it. if you think this is some sort of conspiracy than surely you beleived haliburton only got the contract because of cheney.
 
#47
#47
droski said:
not sure how this is relavant. they had no access to the shut off because of the explosion. this is well documented.
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The rig was supposed to have a deadman activation... eliminating the need for a manual designation for the BOP to engage. As far as I've read... BP hasn't stated explicitly why the fail-safes didn't work.

I think their focus should be on sealing it and once that is done... why it happened.
 
#48
#48
gsvol said:
If the Obama regime in Washington really wanted to do anything other than profiteer and bankrupt America it could have used the same method used by Aramco in Saudi waters to siphon up 800 million gallons of oil and not lose any oil nor cause negative environmental impact but that would be too simple and would be an ecological disastor that is meant to shut down all american drilling as the three mile island (non) incident has been used to prevent more nuclear reactors being built in America for some thirty years or more.

Are you referring to the large Saudi oil spill that was largely on land?

Secondly the 'top kill' method has been half hearted at best and has been started and stopped several times because the use of chemical dispersants is much more profitable for some folks, namely NALCO of Chicago.

It wasn't stopped so that dispersants could be used. When doing these sorts of operations, you may stop for a couple of reasons, such as 1) take measurements and analyze data to assess performance and make corrections if necessary and 2) perform junk shots to try to create enough pressure drop in the riser to actually force the mud into the well rather than out the top of the riser.

NALCO is associated with UChicago Argonne program. UChicago Argonne received $164 million dollars in stimulus funds this past year. UChicago Argonne just added two new executives to their roster. One from NALCO. The other from the Ill. Dept of Educaution.

So the managing LLC of Argonne national labs adds an executive from a successful company in the backyard and from the state department of education, and now they are organizing a conspiracy to force an oil well to continue leaking...nice.

If you dig a little deeper you will find NALCO is also associated with Warren Buffett, Maurice Strong, Al Gore, Soros, Apollo, Blackstone, Goldman Sachs and Hathaway Berkshire among others.

Sounds like I may want to consider investing in them....

Warren Buffet /Hathaway Berkshire increased their holdings in NALCO just last November. (Timing is everything).

The dispersement chemical is known as Corexit. What it does is hold the oil below the water’s surface. It is supposed to break up the spill into smaller pools. It is toxic and banned in Europe.

What are your sentences about the dispersant behavior of Corexit supposed to do? Educate, imply something? They seem odd and out of place to me. The dispersant does break up the oil into smaller droplets, which does cause it to sink - but not necessarily all the way to the bottom of the ocean. This is done to disperse the oil in the water column in hopes that natural microbes will go to work on them, just as they do on the natural leaks from the gulf floor. Of course, this may have negative consequences - but negative consequences of some sort are next to impossible to avoid for a spill/leak of this magnitude in the ocean.

As for the toxicity of Corexit, it meets US safety standards. It is not considered toxic by the tests performed in the US. There are dispersants that are approved for use in Europe that fail US safety/toxicity tests. These are not uniform tests. Are you suggesting we adopt the European standards?
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See bold above...
 
#50
#50
droski said:
a device which has never even been tested and therefore we have no idea if it would have stopped the flow.
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Just tells me they had no business drilling in the first place. No back up plan if anything went wrong, epic fail.
 
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