Why didn’t we hire Mark Stoops???

#51
#51
LittleCat said:
But naw...it means nothing cause the sec sucks right?
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Fans of both teams in this thread, and people on this site generally, have a really difficult time grading on a curve. We've had a Kentucky fan say that 14-12 (9-8) over a 3 year period is pretty good at Kentucky, so Tennessee should give guys like Butch or Dooley more time to "get their guys in." 14-12 (9-8) is not very good at Tennessee, so we have Tennessee fans saying that Kentucky hasn't improved at all.

They are both wrong. This is college football, not the NFL. 8-8 is mediocre no matter what team achieves it in the NFL. Even in Cleveland (if they went 8-8, they will have improved from absolutely awful to mediocre, but it is still mediocre). In college, an 8-8 record over a certain period of time, depending on the program that achieves it, can be pretty good or pretty bad.
 
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#53
#53
LouderVol said:
I wonder if people will be this dismissive if/when we beat Florida?
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You mean Tennessee fans or CFB fans generally?

Tennessee fans will be pretty fired up, probably too fired up about it. If we are that's funny because most people on here are really dismissive of Mullen (there's another thread in this forum calling him the new Butch Jones of the SEC). CFB fans will be pretty dismissive of it because Florida isn't very good.
 
#55
#55
05_never_again said:
You mean Tennessee fans or CFB fans generally?

Tennessee fans will be pretty fired up, probably too fired up about it. If we are that's funny because most people on here are really dismissive of Mullen (there's another thread in this forum calling him the new Butch Jones of the SEC). CFB fans will be pretty dismissive of it because Florida isn't very good.
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us.
 
#57
#57
Jax_Vol said:
Much like Dan MulletHead, Mark Stoops is also a 9-10 win max type coach.

Go big, or go home.
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Again, 9-10 wins as your max is great at places like Miss St and Kentucky. That isn't great at places like Tennessee or Florida. We are not talking about programs with equal resources here. This isn't a professional league. Grade on a curve.

If Mullen fails at Florida, the writing won't have been on the wall because he "only" won 10 games at Miss St.
 
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#58
#58
Tennessee has only hit 9 or 10 wins 3 times in the last decade. I don't think that the standard for your program is that high anymore.

05_never_again said:
Again, 9-10 wins as your max is great at places like Miss St and Kentucky. That isn't great at places like Tennessee or Florida. We are not talking about programs with equal resources here. This isn't a professional league. Grade on a curve.

If Mullen fails at Florida, the writing won't have been on the wall because he "only" won 10 games at Miss St.
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#59
#59
volfaninky said:
Kentucky hasn’t improved. Florida has just gotten worse... actually everyone in the East has not named Georgia so it helps team like KY and Vandy think they are competitive.
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Seriously Clark? I hate UK (grew up in KY), but they are a much improved team. Their QB is doing very well with Snell behind him. Florida will be better when their QB finds some accuracy. Hopefully it will be after week 4 at least.
 
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#60
#60
McCat said:
Tennessee has only hit 9 or 10 wins 3 times in the last decade. I don't think that the standard for your program is that high anymore.
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Considering we’ve had 3 coaches fired in that decade, I’m thinking you just made the point that 9-10 wins still is the standard.

Not everyone gives their coaches extensions for losing to GT in the Taxslayer Bowl :)
 
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#61
#61
McCat said:
Tennessee has only hit 9 or 10 wins 3 times in the last decade. I don't think that the standard for your program is that high anymore.
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Was going to say exactly what volfanngatorland said. If 9 wins is the standard, why was Butch fired?

Regardless, the past 10 years are a rather small period of time when coming up with what reasonable expectations for a program are anyway.

Tennessee is 10th all-time in wins among current FBS schools. That's more than schools like Georgia, LSU, Auburn, and Clemson. Tennessee is T-2 all-time in SEC championships. Tennessee has won the second-most national titles of any SEC school and has the second-most all-time wins of any SEC school. Historically, Tennessee pretty clearly is the 2nd most successful SEC school behind Alabama. It plays in a 102,000-seat stadium, has a huge fanbase, and is 11th in the country in athletic revenue (ahead of schools with more recent success like Penn St, Georgia, FSU, and USC, among others). To say that 9 or 10 wins is the "standard" or the peak of what we can expect is just asinine. By your logic, if Tennessee needs to expect 9 or 10 wins, then Clemson or Georgia fans should be OK with 7 or 8.
 
#62
#62
McCat said:
Tennessee has only hit 9 or 10 wins 3 times in the last decade. I don't think that the standard for your program is that high anymore.
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Phillip Fulmer averaged 10 wins a season and got canned.

Butch was happy with 7-8 wins, making it to a meaningless bowl game. Our fanbase was not.

As one poster said, UT’s & UK’s expectations are completely different.

Winning 7-8 games is considered a great season for UK’s standards while winning 7-8 games for UT’s standards is considered an average season.
 
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#63
#63
VolFreakJosh said:
Phillip Fulmer averaged 10 wins a season and got canned.

Butch was happy with 7-8 wins, making it to a meaningless bowl game. Our fanbase was not.

As one poster said, UT’s & UK’s expectations are completely different.

Winning 7-8 games is considered a great season for UK’s standards while winning 7-8 games for UT’s standards is considered an average season.
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147 wins over 16 years (not counting the 4 in his first as this would hurt) he averaged 9.2 he had 8 years where he got to 10, so thats 8 others where he didn't. so half of his career he didn't get there.
 
#64
#64
05_never_again said:
Again, 9-10 wins as your max is great at places like Miss St and Kentucky. That isn't great at places like Tennessee or Florida. We are not talking about programs with equal resources here. This isn't a professional league. Grade on a curve.

If Mullen fails at Florida, the writing won't have been on the wall because he "only" won 10 games at Miss St.
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I disagree. He only won 9-10 games with the freaking Dallas Cowboy's starting quarterback.

MulletHead is like Harry Gant....on a good day, comes in second.

Some coaches go for the throat; some lose to Kentucky.
 
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#65
#65
Jax_Vol said:
I disagree. He only won 9-10 games with the freaking Dallas Cowboy's starting quarterback.

MulletHead is like Harry Gant....on a good day, comes in second.

Some coaches go for the throat; some lose to Kentucky.
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Part of the reason Dak is the Dallas Cowboys starting QB is because of Mullen. Nobody really wanted him out of high school, especially to play QB. His only big time offer was from LSU, and they wanted him to play tight end.

Mullen took a bunch of lightly recruited guys, including Dak, and won 10 games (6-2 in conference) playing in the toughest division in college football that year. Had them ranked #1 for a few weeks that season. It was really impressive.
 
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#66
#66
volfanngatorland said:
Considering we’ve had 3 coaches fired in that decade, I’m thinking you just made the point that 9-10 wins still is the standard.

Not everyone gives their coaches extensions for losing to GT in the Taxslayer Bowl :)
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You miss the point. Having had multiple 5 and 6-win seasons, although firings may be in order at a "traditional power," my point is that Tennessee is no longer a power in the national picture.

Stoops' extension was for a measly 2 years with a very modest raise. We're not talking 7 years at 8M per year. And let's be honest: bowl wins or losses don't really matter unless you're in the playoffs. It's all about the revenue generated for the school.
 
#69
#69
McCat said:
You miss the point. Having had multiple 5 and 6-win seasons, although firings may be in order at a "traditional power," my point is that Tennessee is no longer a power in the national picture.
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You say "no longer" as if to indicate that it isn't even worth it trying to get back there. There would be several historically successful programs that would have never emerged after down periods or broken out of underachieving seasons based on that logic, most obviously Alabama. In fact, I'd argue that Alabama's program hit further depths than Tennessee's has during the DuBose/Franchione/Price/Shula years. They never had a year where they went winless in the SEC, but there were multiple really bad seasons, seasons where they were banned from postseason play because of NCAA violations, lots of vacated wins, when it looked like they might have gotten a decent coach (Franchione) he bolted after year 2 because of said sanctions, and they had to fire a coach before he even coached a game because he ran up a big expense tab at a hotel cavorting with strippers (way more embarrassing than the Schiano fiasco).

Tennessee, at the moment and for about the last decade, has not been a good program. It has been a good program historically, and when you look at other things like revenue generated, fanbase, facilities, tradition, brand etc., we should be a lot better than we are. If those factors started to go away (which they have not), then that would be grounds for "lowering the standard." The only serious thing Tennessee has going against it is administrative incompetence. It is also a little harder to recruit here than it is places like Georgia, but that is hardly an excuse and not the reason the program has struggled.
 
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#70
#70
McCat said:
But keep that arrogance up. It's a fitting look for a former power that time has passed by.
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You really don’t get it. No one here cares about Kentucky football and when we lose to you, the coach gets fired. Think of how many coaches you would have if you didn’t stand for losing to us. It’s that simple. Goodbye
 
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#72
#72
volgr said:
I feel ya, it's been tiresome watching them ruin our football program for the last decade.
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Not what I meant. Can you prove that "the Haslams" have been the dastardly villains as you & others claim? I've yet to read anything but spiteful speculation. No, I'm not one of the family.
 
#75
#75
VolFreakJosh said:
Phillip Fulmer averaged 10 wins a season and got canned.

Butch was happy with 7-8 wins, making it to a meaningless bowl game. Our fanbase was not.

As one poster said, UT’s & UK’s expectations are completely different.

Winning 7-8 games is considered a great season for UK’s standards while winning 7-8 games for UT’s standards is considered an average season.
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I promise you, if Butch had gone 7-5 or 8-4 last season he'd still be at UT...probably with an extension.
 
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