Why do coaches like Fulmer, Dooley, Zook, etc.

#1
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volberry

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#1
Not get second chances at big name programs. Everyone makes mistakes. I see Tuberville, Nutt, Petrino (assuming he will be sought after soon) get good job after good job. I even wondered why Hammy hasn't popped up on some schools AD radar.
 
#3
#3
Zook did take Illinois to a Rose Bowl - better ? would be how does an idiot like John L Smith get a job at Arkansas and ruin the program in 1 season
 
#5
#5
Fulmer - A little past his prime.

Zook - Not a candidate for a prime as HC.

Dooley - Really ? are you shi**ing me ?

Hammy - Same as Dooley.
 
#6
#6
volberry said:
Not get second chances at big name programs. Everyone makes mistakes. I see Tuberville, Nutt, Petrino (assuming he will be sought after soon) get good job after good job. I even wondered why Hammy hasn't popped up on some schools AD radar.
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I don't think Fulmer tried very hard to be honest. I think his heart was at Tennessee, and he really just didn't show much of an interest elsewhere.

Dooley...come on man, do you have to ask? He never should have gotten the Tennessee job to be honest. He was a desperation hire. He didn't even win at La-wherever. Would you hire him?

As for Zook, he did get a D1 job at Illinois. Not "big time" by any means, but still D1.

Tubberville and Petrino both took steps down from their previous employers, althought T Tech is not a huge step down from Auburn, maybe.

Cincy seems almost a step down from T Tech, but who knows.

Ole Miss took a chance on Nutt and look what it got them.

I think your premise is a bit flawed...I don't think T Tech, WKU, or Ole Miss are "big time" at all. I think U of I is probably a bigger job than WKU and not a huge step down from either T Tech or Ole Miss, though I would say those two are better.
 
#7
#7
Fulmer is viewed as a guy who's let the game pass him by, at least at the top programs. Zook actually managed to take an Illinois squad to a Rose Bowl in 2007. Dooley is currently a member of the Cowboys staff, which is about as good of a second chance as you're going to get after the resume that he's accumulated.

Of the three you just mentioned, only one isn't really considered viable anymore.
 
#8
#8
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#10
#10
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
Fulmer - A little past his prime.

Zook - Not a candidate for a prime as HC.

Dooley - Really ? are you shi**ing me ?

Hammy - Same as Dooley.
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I think they all suck really. But is just curious as to if they get black balled or what? Do administrators bad mouth coaches? What are they judged on?
 
#11
#11
volberry said:
I think they all suck really. But is just curious as to if they get black balled or what? Do administrators bad mouth coaches? What are they judged on?
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Wins, mainly.

They aren't being blackballed in the sense that you're thinking of; they just are viewed as guys that are emergency options as best because there are better candidates out there during most coaching searches.
 
#12
#12
volberry said:
Not get second chances at big name programs. Everyone makes mistakes. I see Tuberville, Nutt, Petrino (assuming he will be sought after soon) get good job after good job. I even wondered why Hammy hasn't popped up on some schools AD radar.
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Zook was the head coach at Illinois for a few years after he left Florida. He did okay for a while, but later was let go again. Dooley will have to work his way back up to be a head coach if he is able and wants to. Fulmer is another story.

I would take a guess that other teams took a look at the direction that the U.T. headed after Cutcliffe left, came back, and left again. They may have decided that Cutcliffe was the glue that held it together. I remember reading that the work ethic of the staff and players went down when Cut left both times.

Most of Fulmer's success came when the only top coaches in the SEC were Spurrier at Florida, and Gene Stallings was at Alabama for a very few years. Fulmer had little success against either. After Stallings left, Fulmer was able to beat Shula and Dubose at Alabama. Fulmer couldn't beat Spurrier with any regularity, and couldn't beat Saban at LSU or the one time at Alabama.

He made his name against Goff, Donnan, Scott, Widenhofer, McIntyre, Curry, Mumme, DiNardo, etc. There was really only one other good team in the East, and that was Florida.

The other possibility is that Fulmer was offered something like a rebuilding job, and his ego wouldn't let him take a lesser job, or that he was afraid that he would go out a big loser, and tarnish his reputation. Remember, Fulmer never had to rebuild a program. he walked into a great job.


I will give him credit for keeping the program at a high level for several years, but it went down gradually, then crashed, after the first 9 or 10, after SEC teams got better coaches..
 
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#14
#14
1972 Grad said:
Most of Fulmer's success came when the only top coaches in the SEC were Spurrier at Florida, and Gene Stallings was at Alabama for a very few years. Fulmer had little success against either. After Stallings left, Fulmer was able to beat Shula and Dubose at Alabama. Fulmer couldn't beat Spurrier with any regularity, and couldn't beat Saban at LSU or the one time at Alabama.
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Well, to be fair he beat Gene Stalling twice in a row at the end of the Stallings era, and he tied him in 1993, which was later changed to a win. So in fact, ignoring the NCAA change, he was 2-1-1 against Stallings, not bad at all, particularly since the loss was in the 1994 rebuilding year. In fact, I would have loved to have seen Fulmer coach the 1992 team. We only lost that one 17-10 and who knows, we could have stopped their NC that year possibly with Heath Shuler as QB. In fact, if Fulmer was known for anything it was beating bammer.

As for SOS, yes, plenty of frustrating losses to them. Fulmer did beat him in 1992, but the 1995 and 1996 games were "epic fails". We probably "should" have won in 1997, and 1999. The fact is, Fulmer probably had turned the corner on SOS, winning in 1998 and also in 2001, the first win at Florida since 1971 when Fulmer was a player. Thus he was 2-2 the last four years with SOS. Had SOS stuck around, who knows...supposedly the Florida recruiting was down a bit.


The other possibility is that Fulmer was offered something like a rebuilding job, and his ego wouldn't let him take a lesser job, or that he was afraid that he would go out a big loser, and tarnish his reputation. Remember, Fulmer never had to rebuild a program. he walked into a great job.
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This is quite possible....he was mentioned for a few openings at mid majors but nothing ever came of it. I believe Louisville was one of them at one point.


I will give him credit for keeping the program at a high level for several years, but it went down gradually, then crashed, after the first 9 or 10, after SEC teams got better coaches..
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It's true the other SEC teams got better coaches, and I am not sure this should have been held against Fulmer. ANY COACH would struggle against Urban and Saban.
 
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#16
#16
volberry said:
Not get second chances at big name programs. Everyone makes mistakes. I see Tuberville, Nutt, Petrino (assuming he will be sought after soon) get good job after good job. I even wondered why Hammy hasn't popped up on some schools AD radar.
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Making mistakes and not having a clue are 2 different things. And that doesn't include everyone on the list.
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#17
#17
govols120 said:
Better question: why did you put Dooley/Zook in the same sentence as Fulmer?
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Dumb question? Phil was much better and has the best record at UT in quite awhile. Believe it was 14 years. The 90's were his best years because of the players he had and even recruited. Three of the years were from players that Majors recruited.
 
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#23
#23
volberry said:
Not get second chances at big name programs. Everyone makes mistakes. I see Tuberville, Nutt, Petrino (assuming he will be sought after soon) get good job after good job. I even wondered why Hammy hasn't popped up on some schools AD radar.
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Nutt probably won't get another big time job again.

Petrino will probably get a job offer by at the least a lower profile power conference team ; maybe an ACC team not named FSU, Miami, VT, or Clemson.

As far Zook, he stayed at Illinois for 5-6 years, and did get them to the Rose Bowl in 2007. Although that had to be one of the most underserving teams to get a bid ever. The only reason they did was because the Rose Bowl was dead set on having a B10/P10 matchup and OSU was in the BCS championship. It was a terrible Rose Bowl and they were really never in the game.
 
#24
#24
Phil is a VOL. There is no doubt he could have gone SOMEWHERE after he was fired--his record was wonderful, but I doubt his heart was in it.
 
#25
#25
Dooley is prolly doing the best thing Dooley can do when it comes to football.

His ability to absorb the Dez Bryant lashings is unparalleled. If it wasnt for Dools then Garrett and Romo would be in wheel chairs
 
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