Why do we take low rated recruits so early?

[livefaith]

A lot of times when we are talking @ "lower rated recruits" or "before they get rated higher" etc, I think we're coming at this entire idea backwards. Fans have no other real measuring stick than recruiting svc ratings (stars). OTOH, coaches rarely if at all even consider the rating of a recruiting service b/c they are going to do their own evaluations. They know that the ratings are done by people that they wouldn't even hire to work on thier staffs.

So, when you hear of any early offer to a 3*, then our guys think they can play. 0* - 5*, the staff could care less. They use the eye test, camp notes, tips from relationships, and direct comparisons. Then they offer as early as the risk will allow. Don't know if that answers the Q or not.

 

[gainesvol82]

Coaches offering recruits end up affecting the recruiting rankings more than any other factors. Guys that don't get top offers usually drop or never climb in ranking.

We now have a coach that sets recruiting trends instead of the previous idiot who just went after who the services hyped.

Id love to hear Pruitt's honest thoughts on Jones.

 

[DougVol]

*trigger disclaimer, this is not a thread questioning the staffs ability to recruit or evaluate talent*

Looking through the current 2021 rankings (yes it’s early) we are ranked #12 with 7 commits at an average rating of 84.28.

Looking at other teams that are competition around us we have Florida #2 90.62 average, Clemson #3 95.51 average, UNC #4 92.25 average, UGA #17 94.56 average, Auburn #17 94.56 average, etc.

It looks like our staff is big on taking early lower rates recruits. Curious as to why VN thinks that is.

We take them at 3stars and they eventually become 4stars but sign loi at Auburn. We feel 5 stars are just too much trouble. Pass

 

[sechamp2012]

Staff Evaluations > Paid Recruiting Service Evalutions

Especially early the nerds let the coaches do the early heavy lifting then evolve. Then the pay services gladly take your money.

 

[sechamp2012]

We take them at 3stars and they eventually become 4stars but sign loi at Auburn. We feel 5 stars are just too much trouble. Pass

Biggest trouble with 5 stars is they are just around 30 yearly.
Actually there are just between 28 to 34 FIVE ***** stars yearly and 130+ D1 teams . Do the math, Bama gets 4 or 5, Clemson gets 4 or 5, Georgia gets 4 or 5, Ohio State gets 4 or 5, Oklahoma gets 3 or 4 , Auburn gets 2 or 3, LSU gets 3 or 4 Florida gets 2 or 3. See where I'm going with this narrative. 8 or so teams get around 25 of the 5 Stars. Leaving around ten 5 stars for 120+ teams to vie for these 10. Then hope these 10 were not picked over for a reason.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

*trigger disclaimer, this is not a thread questioning the staffs ability to recruit or evaluate talent*

Looking through the current 2021 rankings (yes it’s early) we are ranked #12 with 7 commits at an average rating of 84.28.

Looking at other teams that are competition around us we have Florida #2 90.62 average, Clemson #3 95.51 average, UNC #4 92.25 average, UGA #17 94.56 average, Auburn #17 94.56 average, etc.

It looks like our staff is big on taking early lower rates recruits. Curious as to why VN thinks that is.

Same book , next chapter. Read the ame post the last two years. I will see where we stand in the middle of September.
we will have a very good class this year.

 

[livefaith]

*trigger disclaimer, this is not a thread questioning the staffs ability to recruit or evaluate talent*

Looking through the current 2021 rankings (yes it’s early) we are ranked #12 with 7 commits at an average rating of 84.28.

Looking at other teams that are competition around us we have Florida #2 90.62 average, Clemson #3 95.51 average, UNC #4 92.25 average, UGA #17 94.56 average, Auburn #17 94.56 average, etc.

It looks like our staff is big on taking early lower rates recruits. Curious as to why VN thinks that is.

You get a like just for the disclaimer. LOL

 

[CAVPUT]

*trigger disclaimer, this is not a thread questioning the staffs ability to recruit or evaluate talent*

Looking through the current 2021 rankings (yes it’s early) we are ranked #12 with 7 commits at an average rating of 84.28.

Looking at other teams that are competition around us we have Florida #2 90.62 average, Clemson #3 95.51 average, UNC #4 92.25 average, UGA #17 94.56 average, Auburn #17 94.56 average, etc.

It looks like our staff is big on taking early lower rates recruits. Curious as to why VN thinks that is.

Chum in the water. Trying to create excitement and draw the real targets to the party.

 

[LittleVol]

*trigger disclaimer, this is not a thread questioning the staffs ability to recruit or evaluate talent*

Looking through the current 2021 rankings (yes it’s early) we are ranked #12 with 7 commits at an average rating of 84.28.

Looking at other teams that are competition around us we have Florida #2 90.62 average, Clemson #3 95.51 average, UNC #4 92.25 average, UGA #17 94.56 average, Auburn #17 94.56 average, etc.

It looks like our staff is big on taking early lower rates recruits. Curious as to why VN thinks that is.

Fair question and good on you to put the disclaimer.
To put it simply, Recruiting Sites have their own "reasons" why certain recruits are ranked where they are.
College Football coaches are recruiting for what fits their team..so Pruitt and the guys will take a 6'4 300 lb 3 star Dlineman over a 4 star 6'3 245 DL.
So, it's not always "who's better evaluators".
Because A LOT of the recruiting rankings are based of coaching evaluations...

 

[sjt18]

It is worthwhile to remember that when a recruiting site evaluator "misses"... the kid is called a bust. The blame is shifted. to the kid... who may have never been a 5* caliber player to start with. The "evaluator" goes on with no accountability to the next class and no one seems to remember how often they're wrong. They don't get fired for their misses.

When a HC fails as an evaluator... he gets fired.

So... the really good HC's are great evaluators and trust their own evaluations. Their jobs literally depend on them.

 

[tnutater]

Grea

Great, you caught the Tater ( Ron White).

Free the Tater

 

[tnutater]

You know we sign more 4 star players than 3 star, right?

Do you know how many three stars Bama signs?

 

[butchna]

Ok, I’m going to humor you here, because again, this isn’t a topic meant to question the coaches evaluation abilities.

So you’re telling me our coaches are avoiding top rated talent because they’re better at evaluating guys than the people rating the talent. So the 4-5* guys right now and are busts while the 3*s are that sweet spot between recruiting service rating trash and recruiting rating service good?

How are they “avoiding” such? They recruit and sign them as well as focus on their own targets over the 5 star Reggie Grimes of the world. Both realities can be true.

 

[MarcoVol]

Do you know how many three stars Bama signs?

lol at you if you expect us to sign a Bama caliber class right now. This was posted in May 2018. Since then we’ve gone 5-7 and 8-5. Bama since then has gone 14-1 and 11-2. So these numbers are even worse.

 

[DaddyChad]

Honestly most coaching staffs do not look at rivals or 247 evaluations. They have their own paid services which evaluate players. Most sites adjust their rankings based upon offers. Long story short is players are underrated bc most sites are behind on real evaluations

 

[drvenner]

You know we sign more 4 star players than 3 star, right?

I don't think he does.

 

[wmcovol]

1) tell some kids commit now or move on
2) allow some kids to use your offer to help them get others. HS coaches appreciate this

 

[tnutater]

lol at you if you expect us to sign a Bama caliber class right now. This was posted in May 2018. Since then we’ve gone 5-7 and 8-5. Bama since then has gone 14-1 and 11-2. So these numbers are even worse.
View attachment 265557

Everyone knows we have sucked , no need for reminders. What most reasonable Vol fans EXPECT is that to be competitive in our big three games, recruiting has to be on par. Even the horn blower won 9 games a couple times. Wins against bottom tier SEC teams and ooc cupcakes are the best we can hope for until we recruit closer to the big boys. However, you state an absolute truth...… being more competitive and winning makes recruiting easier.

 

[sport3500]

CRB did the same thing in basketball when he arrived at UT and coached them up.

 

[WBO]

*trigger disclaimer, this is not a thread questioning the staffs ability to recruit or evaluate talent*

Looking through the current 2021 rankings (yes it’s early) we are ranked #12 with 7 commits at an average rating of 84.28.

Looking at other teams that are competition around us we have Florida #2 90.62 average, Clemson #3 95.51 average, UNC #4 92.25 average, UGA #17 94.56 average, Auburn #17 94.56 average, etc.

It looks like our staff is big on taking early lower rates recruits. Curious as to why VN thinks that is.

It's a valid question. But except for the physical specimens who pop out, rising seniors usually aren't effectively rated until after the summer camps before their senior year. That's when more of them get evaluation time against their more vaunted peers. A lot of these early offers for the Vols seem to be those types of kids, ones that the coaches see in the February junior camps and jump on quickly hoping to generate that early offer loyalty. Look at Harrison in 2019 class and Hyatt in 2020. Both were early rated 3 stars, but both look like they are going to be solid players in the future, maybe more.

It's clear Pruitt and staff look for athletes in the early evaluations, ratings be damned. He wants mobile, agile kids and is willing to take kids who the rating services feel are too slightly built, but who have the frames that you can hang 20-40 lbs on. Or as was once said by Bear Bryant about Lee Roy Jordan: mobile, agile and hostile.

Now the conspiracy theorist in me is also thinking that many times these early offers are also made to get buzz in a geographical area where we haven't recruited heavily in the past. Then later the staff goes quiet on the kid and his ego leads him to decommit, not necessarily to the disappointment of the staff. Thinking the Cox DL out of Mobile last year, there wasn't a lot of moaning and gnashing of teeth when he moved on before signing day.. It's nice to go steal one out of Alabama every now and then, but you can't get on the radar down there if you're not doing something that keeps your name in the press. We've been able to get some great ones in the past, i.e. Condridge, Joey Kent and Tee Martin to name a few. Wondering if that's something to do with one or two of these early commits.

Plus it's clear Pruitt is determined to recruit Alabama.

Pruitt has a process. Looks to me like he's sticking with it, which in and of itself is refreshing to see. More importantly, we're about to find out if it works. If we go 10-3 this year with our schedule, it's working.

 

[Jack Burton]

We have to start getting guys drafted in order to recruit in the top tier. We’re still relying on diamond in the rough evaluations, which can work some, but it’s much nicer being able to run with the big dogs.

 

[Pridedad]

It's a valid question. But except for the physical specimens who pop out, rising seniors usually aren't effectively rated until after the summer camps before their senior year. That's when more of them get evaluation time against their more vaunted peers. A lot of these early offers for the Vols seem to be those types of kids, ones that the coaches see in the February junior camps and jump on quickly hoping to generate that early offer loyalty. Look at Harrison in 2019 class and Hyatt in 2020. Both were early rated 3 stars, but both look like they are going to be solid players in the future, maybe more.

It's clear Pruitt and staff look for athletes in the early evaluations, ratings be damned. He wants mobile, agile kids and is willing to take kids who the rating services feel are too slightly built, but who have the frames that you can hang 20-40 lbs on. Or as was once said by Bear Bryant about Lee Roy Jordan: mobile, agile and hostile.

Now the conspiracy theorist in me is also thinking that many times these early offers are also made to get buzz in a geographical area where we haven't recruited heavily in the past. Then later the staff goes quiet on the kid and his ego leads him to decommit, not necessarily to the disappointment of the staff. Thinking the Cox DL out of Mobile last year, there wasn't a lot of moaning and gnashing of teeth when he moved on before signing day.. It's nice to go steal one out of Alabama every now and then, but you can't get on the radar down there if you're not doing something that keeps your name in the press. We've been able to get some great ones in the past, i.e. Condridge, Joey Kent and Tee Martin to name a few. Wondering if that's something to do with one or two of these early commits.

Plus it's clear Pruitt is determined to recruit Alabama.

Pruitt has a process. Looks to me like he's sticking with it, which in and of itself is refreshing to see. More importantly, we're about to find out if it works. If we go 10-3 this year with our schedule, it's working.

If we go 9 and 4 does that mean it's not working?

 

[WBO]

If we go 9 and 4 does that mean it's not working?

Yeppers, complete and total failure, fire them all, lol. Of course not, but you know they really should have been 10-3 last year, The losses to Ga. State and BYU took the shine off of what would have been a very good year and may well have cost us a couple more 4 star signees.

10-3 is going to mean we beat one of our Big 4 opponents this year, i.e. OU, UGA, FL or Bama and I do believe you have to do that to show solid progress plus get the wins against competitive teams such as the Cocks and resurgent KY. Pruitt needs to show the talent development and I expect he will. He's got three of his recruiting classes on campus now. (Agreed that the first year, by the fact it was quickly assembled, was tough, but it had good talent in it. A little attrition, but you got three excellent DBs, Mincey was a steal, Emerson is a starter now, Banks will be good if he gets his head in place and there were other guys who will provide solid depth.)

I fully expect that in two more recruiting classes, and if our OC and DC stay in place for 2 more years, we'll be challenging the best in the SEC. But yeah, I'm defining progress in year 3 as 10-3.

 

[Devo182]

Yeppers, complete and total failure, fire them all, lol. Of course not, but you know they really should have been 10-3 last year, The losses to Ga. State and BYU took the shine off of what would have been a very good year and may well have cost us a couple more 4 star signees.

10-3 is going to mean we beat one of our Big 4 opponents this year, i.e. OU, UGA, FL or Bama and I do believe you have to do that to show solid progress plus get the wins against competitive teams such as the Cocks and resurgent KY. Pruitt needs to show the talent development and I expect he will. He's got three of his recruiting classes on campus now. (Agreed that the first year, by the fact it was quickly assembled, was tough, but it had good talent in it. A little attrition, but you got three excellent DBs, Mincey was a steal, Emerson is a starter now, Banks will be good if he gets his head in place and there were other guys who will provide solid depth.)

I fully expect that in two more recruiting classes, and if our OC and DC stay in place for 2 more years, we'll be challenging the best in the SEC. But yeah, I'm defining progress in year 3 as 10-3.

Should have beaten Ga St regardless, but BYU was never a gimme and beat us straight up. They beat USC a week later and a ranked Boise St team. They were no slouches. Only our hubris let us think we were above BYU.

 

[utvolmaniac]

The answer: To give VN something to b!tch about.

The question: Why do we take low rated recruits so early?