Why is the media always wrong when reporting about firearms??

[utvolpj]

And what's their policy on toting guns?

.

If that had happened at SUU (where I went to school, a right-to-carry campus) statistics show there likely would have been 3-4 guns in the classroom being shot up.

 

[n_huffhines]

And what's their policy on toting guns?

It's a right-to-carry campus. Like I said.

If you are talking about the city, I don't know if they have any gun laws that differentiate them. All I know is that everybody has guns, and lots of them.

 

[KiffinKiller]

It appears you concede the point, then?

ha! Just playing.

But if you think the lower rate of violence can be attributed to allowing guns in class rooms...you'd be ignoring a plethora of cultural and socioeconomic factors.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Our rate of violent murders by firearm is ridiculous. Trusting gun owners isn't in my best interest.

 

[utvolpj]

how many of these murders are committed by people legally owning the firearm? Using criminals to back your stance seems a bit odd

 

[KiffinKiller]

how many of these murders are committed by people legally owning the firearm? Using criminals to back your stance seems a bit odd

My stance isn't to arm the populace to counteract fear.

 

[n_huffhines]

My stance isn't to arm the populace to counteract fear.

You're the one that is afraid.

 

[utvolpj]

My stance isn't to arm the populace to counteract fear.

I'm not really afraid either way but I choose not to embolden my enemy

 

[KiffinKiller]

You're the one that is afraid.

I don't arm myself. I'd say I'm less afraid then those that do.

 

[n_huffhines]

I don't arm myself. I'd say I'm less afraid then those that do.

Really? You are afraid and that is why you want government to take action. You want them to restrict freedom because you are afraid of what will happen if they don't. You are acting out of fear. If you weren't afraid, then you would be fine with government inaction.

I support the right to bear arms because freedom is the end, above all. I am not acting out of fear. I want freedom. That allowing the populace to arm itself is practical for security reasons is just a bonus.

 

[dreVol]

how many of these murders are committed by people legally owning the firearm? Using criminals to back your stance seems a bit odd

I've also wondered what the answer to this question is. Does anyone keep a record of the rate of crime committed by lawful gun owners?
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[DC Vol]

I've also wondered what the answer to this question is. Does anyone keep a record of the rate of crime committed by lawful gun owners?
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I know in DC the incentive based ($50/handgun) efforts to get guns off the streets, while successful, just made criminals realize there was less of a threat to open crime and some of the worst crime waves in DC history were experienced.

It made crime less random and more calculated. It actually got worse... in 2006, within a month after the "clean the streets" program there were something like 14 murders in 12 days. People were slinging around AK rounds without any fear from the victims as they knew they would be gone by the time the DC police arrived.

It was a flash mob of murder. That actually sounds like a Cannibal Corpse song.

 

[hndog609]

I've also wondered what the answer to this question is. Does anyone keep a record of the rate of crime committed by lawful gun owners?
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Tricky proposition since until convicted of a crime any gun owner would be "lawful", even if they regularly engaged in criminal activity.

It shouldn't be too hard for someone with enough data access to compile how many people that were prohibited from having guns (prior felons, etc) vs those with carry permits end up committing gun related crimes.

 

[dreVol]

Tricky proposition since until convicted of a crime any gun owner would be "lawful", even if they regularly engaged in criminal activity.

It shouldn't be too hard for someone with enough data access to compile how many people that were prohibited from having guns (prior felons, etc) vs those with carry permits end up committing gun related crimes.

I'm guessing the FBI or ATF might keep some kind of statistics that may be helpful. It just seems like abstract "gun violence" is regularly raised as a counter to the CC advocates. I think as an argument against CC there's a significant difference in gun violence committed by lawful gun owners vs. that committed by illegal gun owners. My feeling is that a criminal that wants to get a gun will find a way (ie they aren't filling out any paperwork or waiting for their background check to be completed)
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[dreVol]

I know in DC the incentive based ($50/handgun) efforts to get guns off the streets, while successful, just made criminals realize there was less of a threat to open crime and some of the worst crime waves in DC history were experienced.

I'll bet the cost of black market guns skyrocketed too
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[hndog609]

I'm guessing the FBI or ATF might keep some kind of statistics that may be helpful. It just seems like abstract "gun violence" is regularly raised as a counter to the CC advocates. I think as an argument against CC there's a significant difference in gun violence committed by lawful gun owners vs. that committed by illegal gun owners. My feeling is that a criminal that wants to get a gun will find a way (ie they aren't filling out any paperwork or waiting for their background check to be completed)
Posted via VolNation Mobile

My only issue with that is that there are a great many more "lawful" gun owners than those with an actual HCP. The former can really be anyone, even a "criminal", that simply hasn't been caught yet. That's what makes it tricky.

I would be interested to know how many crimes were committed by previously convicted criminals vs those that have obtained HCP's. I have no doubt it would be wildly lopsided but it would be nice to actually cite some solid numbers.

 

[dreVol]

My only issue with that is that there are a great many more "lawful" gun owners than those with an actual HCP. The former can really be anyone, even a "criminal", that simply hasn't been caught yet. That's what makes it tricky.

I would be interested to know how many crimes were committed by previously convicted criminals vs those that have obtained HCP's. I have no doubt it would be wildly lopsided but it would be nice to actually cite some solid numbers.

Ah, nice distinction. HCP vs. convicted criminals would be the more interesting statistic
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[IPorange]

Really? You are afraid and that is why you want government to take action. You want them to restrict freedom because you are afraid of what will happen if they don't. You are acting out of fear. If you weren't afraid, then you would be fine with government inaction.

I support the right to bear arms because freedom is the end, above all. I am not acting out of fear. I want freedom. That allowing the populace to arm itself is practical for security reasons is just a bonus.

Both sides are ultimately motivated fear, just different kinds. Don't be in denial about it. You're terrified of the government.

 

[lawgator1]

Really? You are afraid and that is why you want government to take action. You want them to restrict freedom because you are afraid of what will happen if they don't. You are acting out of fear. If you weren't afraid, then you would be fine with government inaction.

I support the right to bear arms because freedom is the end, above all. I am not acting out of fear. I want freedom. That allowing the populace to arm itself is practical for security reasons is just a bonus.

You arm yourself to keep free? From the federal government?

How 19th century of you.

 

[DC Vol]

You arm yourself to keep free? From the federal government?

How 19th century of you.

Partisan efforts in the Middle East have been pretty damned effective. So, yes, it does have merit.

However, I doubt most Americans would have the resolve (on par with Taliban or AQI) to not only carry out, but follow through for the long haul, a rebellion. Most won't even drag their asses out to vote or educate themselves on what it is, exactly, they're voting for.

So it would be a small scale conflict (like Waco, as you cited) that would be quickly and decisively crushed. Predator drones versus Sig556s.

 

[hndog609]

Partisan efforts in the Middle East have been pretty damned effective. So, yes, it does have merit.

However, I doubt most Americans would have the resolve (on par with Taliban or AQI) to not only carry out, but follow through for the long haul, a rebellion. Most won't even drag their asses out to vote or educate themselves on what it is, exactly, they're voting for.

So it would be a small scale conflict (like Waco, as you cited) that would be quickly and decisively crushed. Predator drones versus Sig556s.

If the government really reaches THAT point what makes you think there won't be a good many LEO/Guardsman/Military people standing with the armed civvies? For that matter I'm quite certain some states (TX & MT come easily to mind) would start taking their sovereignty seriously in a big way. In fact, I think one of the biggest misses people have in this type conversation is trying to compare some pissed off rednecks in the woods taking a shot at Fed agents they thought were trespassing has anything whatsoever to do with a no BS armed insurrection against a govt that has overstepped. In particular the idea that all the LEO and military would just go along with orders that (one can only assume) contradict Constitutional law. We're obviously dealing in speculation here but I am convinced that if that sort of thing ever happened on the scale we're talking about it would be past and current military personnel that would be leading the revolt.

 

[MontereyVol]

The US military would descend into chaos on orders to commit war on citizens.

 

[gsvol]

it's actually a valid point. It's even been shown on this board that the ones who want the most control have the least knowledge

That is true on several other topics as well.

But, what if, while I was educating myself my son/daughter/dog sees the firearm and decides to go on a killing rampage?

I've seen them all playing video games. And, as we all know, video games are nothing but training simulations.

That reminds me of the General up in Virginia who was being interviewed on a local radio station.

The young lady asked the General about a troop of boy scouts who had toured his base recently.

The question finally came up about the firing range and she asked if the boy scouts were allowed to fire.

He said yes and she was outraged, asking; "aren't you equiping these young men to be murderers?"

The general replied; "well lady, you look like you are equiped to be a prostetute but that doesn' make you one does it?"

She must have swallowed her mike, there was about five minutes of silence and then the station started playing music.

Interview over.

The use of handguns in self-defense is pathetically small compared to their usage in criminal activity. As in tinsey-tiny.

What do you think of the Obama/Holder/Clinton policy of enabling guns to go into the hands of the worst sorts of criminals in the hope of producing a statistic that implies American gun ownership laws are too lax?

That you would advocate a universe where there are 3-4 guns in a single classroom is just awesome.

Well that's a pretty small percentage if you have 30 or so in the class.

Just depends on their aim

My kids could all score 95+ with a .22 rifle at thirty yds by the time they were five.

 

[punkcat]

Our rate of violent murders by firearm is ridiculous. Trusting gun owners isn't in my best interest.

Funny, I got about 30 to 40 guns in the house and not a single one of them has ever killed or even shot anyone. I've carried one for 20 years and it hasn't shot anyone..........yet.

 

[gsvol]

Pajamasmedia is the authority on everything.

PJ is far more accurate than the NY Slimes for instance.

There are links to everything in the article, exactly what is it that you disagree with?

And what's their policy on toting guns?

Pack lightweight, especially during periods of global warming.

- HUMAN EVENTS

To the OP it's pretty simple; they disapprove and knowing what they're talking about is irrelevant or, worse, clouds the issue for them.

On a lot of other topics as well.

ha! Just playing.

But if you think the lower rate of violence can be attributed to allowing guns in class rooms...you'd be ignoring a plethora of cultural and socioeconomic factors.

Can you name a few of the plethora of cultural and socioeconomic factors?

My stance isn't to arm the populace to counteract fear.

The American populace is already armed

The history of populaces who have allowed themselves to be disarmed by their governments isn't a pretty thing to behold, on the contrary, that history is beyond horrible.

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."
- Joseph Stalin

You're the one that is afraid.