Why is this illegal?

#127
#127
therealUT said:
Yes.



Abuse is abuse.
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Wow. You are a very dense troll.

So getting smacked or having your arm pinched for not cleaning the bathroom is on the same level as being forced into prostitution?

Gotcha. You're really winning this argument in your head.
 
#128
#128
OrangeEmpire said:
We where turned down in ohio because of a mathmatical formula for square footage that was livable.
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Wow. I can't believe you would try to bring a child into such poor conditions. If only you had given birth yourself, you'd be free to subject a child to that misery.
 
#129
#129
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Very under appreciated post. I can't decide if it is a reflection of how ignorant you really are, or more a reflection of how ignorant you seem to think the rest of us are.
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Half of Americans are less than average Americans. The other half are above average.
 
#131
#131
Thrasher865 said:
Wow. You are a very dense troll.

So getting smacked or having your arm pinched for not cleaning the bathroom is on the same level as being forced into prostitution?

Gotcha. You're really winning this argument in your head.
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There is a significant difference between deserved punishment and abuse, and it lies in the intent. If you intend to inflict any amount of pain on anyone simply to inflict pain on them you are just as bad as someone who does so and inflicts a greater amount of pain.
 
#132
#132
therealUT said:
There is a significant difference between deserved punishment and abuse, and it lies in the intent. If you intend to inflict any amount of pain on anyone simply to inflict pain on them you are just as bad as someone who does so and inflicts a greater amount of pain.
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By that standard, punishment should be equal if I punch or shoot someone as long as my intent was the same.
 
#133
#133
therealUT said:
My argument is simple: the sole act of selling a child is not, in itself, morally wrong.

My attempts to defeat the arguments of those who seem to rely on empiricism and context-dependent reasoning, is to concoct situations with assumptions of which they will have to digest and accept or reject on the basis of feelings.



This is where I part with Kant; I think humans are inherently good and I base this off of the only human that I truly know: myself. While I often fall short, I am very much striving to do good. If I say that others are not, then I have arrogantly privileged and valued myself above others.

I think there are certainly situations where a child can be exploited and abused; I think this can happen regardless of whether or not measures are in place to try to prevent that outcome. I think that once a crime is discovered (a real crime), then the assailants should be charged and punished.



If someone knowingly sells their child into an abusive situation, then they are morally culpable. If someone sells their child into an secure and stable situation with the intent to sell them into an abusive situation, they are morally culpable.

That said, I see nothing wrong with someone selling their child, in and of itself.



I do not see what would be wrong even if a woman was popping out a baby every eighteen months with the intention to sell it.
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No act is morally wrong until you examine the intentions.

A few years ago the State Department investigated international adoptions coming out of Viet Nam. They found that several orphanages were actively taking babies from their mothers and then offering them up for adoption and making a profit from the deal. Mothers lost their children, adoptive parents gained children under false pretenses. Once the idea of profit came in, the intentions skewed radically to the detriment of most of the people involved.

My problem with selling children stems from this basic premise that once there is a profit to be made then there is too much room for corruption of the intentions.

Transferring parental rights for a variety of reasons, even if that is to improve the economic condition of the birth parents is okay in my mind. No one should profit from the transfer, neither the birth parents, adoptive parents, adoption agencies or governments.
 
#134
#134
therealUT said:
There is a significant difference between deserved punishment and abuse, and it lies in the intent. If you intend to inflict any amount of pain on anyone simply to inflict pain on them you are just as bad as someone who does so and inflicts a greater amount of pain.
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What if I intend to smack the crap out of someone but don't act on that intent?
 
#136
#136
therealUT said:
There is a significant difference between deserved punishment and abuse, and it lies in the intent. If you intend to inflict any amount of pain on anyone simply to inflict pain on them you are just as bad as someone who does so and inflicts a greater amount of pain.
Click to expand...

I think nearly always in the eyes of abusive parents, it is deserved punishment....

So you are, indeed, saying that child abuse in the form of beatings, etc, is just as severe as being forced into prostitution?

This is either the troll of the century, or you just started an idiotic thread, realized the level of your ignorance, and have too much pride to back down.
 
#140
#140
nbakerld said:
Wow. I can't believe you would try to bring a child into such poor conditions. If only you had given birth yourself, you'd be free to subject a child to that misery.
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frackin awesome, I was balostic thought mrs oe was going to kill someone, by the state formula a 2144 sq ft ranch with finished basement wasnt enough for five people and three dogs.....the dogs accounted for living space
 
#141
#141
what were you going to do with said child in the basement, huh?
but, realistically, they have people that "collect" kids for the monthly stipend. Our son was in a 10' by 10' bedroom with three other boys from age 10 to 17, across the hall was another room that had the same and they all shared one bath, rules are like warning labels, they would not be there if someone had not done/abused them
We talked about this when you went through it OE, you were caught in the "system" and it sucks when a child that could be in a good familiy is penalized.
 
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#142
#142
T-TownVol said:
what were you going to do with said child in the basement, huh?
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two twin girls whose parents were family friends, tragic. jerks told us we could care for them and reapply month by month as caretakers till a permanent home for placement could be found. but we would have to receive a waiver because of our living arrangement ie the housing formula
 
#143
#143
OrangeEmpire said:
two twin girls whose parents were family friends, tragic. jerks told us we could care for them and reapply month by month as caretakers till a permanent home for placement could be found. but we would have to receive a waiver because of our living arrangement ie the housing formula
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I remember, see my edit above. Where did they wind up being placed.
 
#145
#145
OrangeEmpire said:
They were split up..........still makes me angry
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that sucks....our son has two little brothers that we tried to adopt but they were both deemed unfit to adopt because of mental issues.....now our son has been diagnosed with conduct disorder and is on lock down at school...he knows right from wrong, he just does not care and does whatever he wants whenever he wants
 
#147
#147
OrangeEmpire said:
frackin awesome, I was balostic thought mrs oe was going to kill someone, by the state formula a 2144 sq ft ranch with finished basement wasnt enough for five people and three dogs.....the dogs accounted for living space
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That is just wrong, shows where there are big problems--the system needs to have some flexibility built in.
 
#150
#150
OrangeEmpire said:
The basement was a literal house to itself but was not allowed into the formula. Pushed the sq ft over 3600
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Too much power in the hands of individual bureaucrats. We did our adoption overseas while living in Japan, took the US bureaucracy right out of the picture (well, except for State Department, but we had a literal angel help us in that area). We adopted from South Africa at a time when their process was intentionally smooth and the costs extremely reasonable and rational. My friends who did domestic adoptions had very different experiences.
 
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