Why the O-line Was Awful in 2018

#1

DiderotsGhost

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#1
Devo182's post on advanced O-line stats was pretty eye-opening. While it's reaffirmed the things many of us have said all season, it's certainly nice to have quantitative proof of that.

Some of the intereting highlights of the Football Outsider stats --- we were:

(1) Dead last on percentage of running plays stuffed behind the line of scrimmage ("Stuff Rate") and not even close to next-to-last,
(2) Bottom 10% in every single run blocking category,
(3) #127 / 130 on Adjusted Line Yards
(4) #103 / 130 on Sack Rate

Football Outsider's stats go back to 2014, so we can compare with much of the Butch Jones era. 2018 was by far the worst performance for the O-line. Worse than 2014. Worse than 2017.


The One Weird Outlier

That said, there's one very weird thing in the data for 2018 --- one stat we were not terrible on: "Passing Down Sack Rate".

This is a measure that takes downs that are considered obvious or very likely "passing downs" and looks at the percentage of sacks. We weren't spectacular on this metric, but we were rated #57, which is very middle of the pack. Why were we OK on this, but horrible on every single other metric?

The answer IMO is that every down was a "passing down" for us.

Most teams have a much lower sack rate on "standard downs" than "passing downs." Georgia and Texas are both good examples. On standard downs, their sack rates were around 3.5% - 4.0%. On pass downs, that increased to about 8.5%. Meanwhile, our sack rate was similar on "standard downs" and "passing downs". In fact, the sack rate actually went down a bit on "passing downs" from 8.9% to 7.6%.

Our run blocking was so poor that our opponents didn't respect the run. Probably the greatest example was the South Carolina game where Muschamp decided to play his DBs back and dared us to run and throw short passes. This is not a tactic that he could have applied to any other team in the SEC. He knew we were incapable of winning in the trenches, so he simply had to prevent giving up "big plays".

Other teams simply blitzed to their hearts' content. They weren't concerned about getting bit by the run, because they knew our O-line was going to lose the battle. In essence, our inability to run block undermined everything else, so that opponents were able to treat 1st and 10 or 2nd and 6 just like "passing downs".


Why Were We So Bad?

There are a lot of reasons we were so awful on O-line.

(1) Firing of Mahoney; hiring of Walt Wells. Butch effectively fired Don Mahoney at the end of 2016 and replaced him with Walt Wells. Mahoney never had elite O-lines, but he did have a history of developing O-linemen and some of the stats were better than people realized in 2015 and 2016. Mahoney was probably an average OL coach at the SEC level ... not great, not awful. Walt Wells, on the other hand ... before UT, he was fired at USF for his dismal performance under Willie Taggart. He was exiled to lower-tier programs for a few years before becoming an Analyst under Butch. Our stats and O-line performance plummeted under Wells. Butch's O-lines were never great, but Wells turned an average OL into a very bad one in a single year.

(2) Firing of Dave Lawson. In April 2016, Butch fired Dave Lawson and basically left an open position on the S&C staff for nearly a year. This was also the period in which the now infamous "shirtless out of shape" team photo was taken. We experienced an unprecedented rash of injuries in 2016, which is likely due in part to poor S&C. In spite of the hire of Rock Gullickson the next season, it never felt like S&C recovered under Butch. Our guys continued to be weaker than their counterparts in the SEC. While Pruitt went out and hired one of the best S&C directors out there with Craig Fitzgerald, it's still important to remember that our O-linemen spent 2 years with inadequate S&C which hurt their development.

(3) The depleted 2015 class. The 2015 class was our Senior (or RS-Jr) class for 2018. It's the most important class for the O-line. Take a look at our 2015 recruiting haul on OL: Drew Richmond, Jack Jones, Chance Hall, Venzell Boulware, and Zach Stewart. Stewart's mom died after he signed and he never ended up enrolling at UT. Boulware transferred to Miami. Jack Jones was forced to retire due to injuries. Chance Hall has also suffered from repeated injuries and never felt close to 100% in 2018. So we signed a class of 5 O-linemen and you can say 1 -2 of them are left in a best case scenario. And Richmond is largely considered to be a huge underachiever; he would probably be re-rated as a 3-star rather than a 5-star.

(4) Bad luck. On top of all of this, we've just had plain ole' bad luck. Our 2 best O-linemen were unavailable for much of the season. Trey Smith's health issues have kept him off the field and may end his career. Kennedy suffered a season-ending injury in the 1st game. That's on top of losing Jack Jones forever and a host of other injuries that have limited several linemen.

(5) Butch's recruiting got worse. Butch Jones recruited well for a few years, but his recruiting clearly got worse during his last two seasons. In spite of the rash of injuries on O-line, Butch only took 3 OLs 2017. At least you can credit him for not going "FULL DOOLEY!", as Dooley failed to recruit O-linemen at all for over a year, but we still needed more guys to replace the ones we'd lost due to injuries and other issues. While we did get Trey Smith in 2017, the rest of the O-line haul was a bit weaker. Riley Locklear may turn out to be good with more experience, but he was probably thrown into the fire a bit early. Similar deal with K'Rojhn Calbert, who lost the entire 2017 season due to a knee injury, and who was more or less coming into 2018 in the same position as a true Freshman. But in reality, we probably needed at least 1 more blue-chip OL in 2017

(6) Scheme change. Then just to top it all off, we went through a scheme change and many of the current O-linemen are a poor fit.


Looking Forward to 2019

I think the O-line will get better next season, but the real question is "how much better?" Many of our guys were probably playing before they were ready (e.g. Locklear, Niehaus). Many were out of position (e.g. Ryan Johnson). Most would benefit from another offseason of S&C.

We'll add at least 2 blue chip recruits and hopefully a 3rd with Darnell Wright. But we'll still be a very young line and true Freshman rarely take starting OL jobs. Nevertheless, our depth will be much better next season.

Overall, I think the narrative that the 2018 O-line performance is all 'coaching staff' is inaccurate. Our issues stem from a series of mistakes by Butch Jones, a scheme change, and a mound of bad luck to go along with that. We'll have a much better sense of how this staff does with the O-line in late 2019 and 2020.
 
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#2
#2
Devo182's post on advanced O-line stats was pretty eye-opening. While it's reaffirmed the things many of us have said all season, it's certainly nice to have quantitative proof of that.

Some of the intereting highlights of the Football Outsider stats --- we were:

(1) Dead last on percentage of running plays stuffed behind the line of scrimmage ("Stuff Rate") and not even close to next-to-last,
(2) Bottom 10% in every single run blocking category,
(3) #127 / 130 on Adjusted Line Yards
(4) #103 / 130 on Sack Rate

Football Outsider's stats go back to 2014, so we can compare with much of the Butch Jones era. 2018 was by far the worst performance for the O-line. Worse than 2014. Worse than 2017.


The One Weird Outlier

That said, there's one very weird thing in the data for 2018 --- one stat we were not terrible on: "Passing Down Sack Rate".

This is measure that takes downs that are considered obvious or very likely "passing downs" and looks at the percentage of sacks. We weren't spectacular on this metric, but we were rated #57, which is very middle of the pack. Why were we OK on this, but horrible on every single other metric?

The answer IMO is that every down was a "passing down" for us.

Most teams have a much lower sack rate on "standard downs" than "passing downs." Georgia and Texas are both good examples. On standard downs, their sack rates were around 3.5% - 4.0%. On pass downs, that increased to about 8.5%. Meanwhile, our sack rate was similar on "standard downs" and "passing downs". In fact, the sack rate actually went down a bit on "passing downs" from 8.9% to 7.6%.

Our run blocking was so poor that our opponents didn't respect the run. Probably the greatest example was the South Carolina game where Muschamp decided to play his DBs back and dared us to run and throw short passes. This is not a tactic that he could have applied to any other team in the SEC. He knew we were incapable of winning in the trenches, so he simply had to prevent giving up "big plays".

Other teams simply blitzed to their hearts' content. They weren't concerned about getting bit by the run, because they knew our O-line was going to lose the battle. In essence, our inability to run block undermined everything else, so that opponents were able to treat 1st and 10 or 2nd and 6 just like "passing downs".


Why Were We So Bad?

There are a lot of reasons we were so awful on O-line.

(1) Firing of Mahoney; hiring of Walt Wells. Butch effectively fired Don Mahoney at the end of 2016 and replaced him with Walt Wells. Mahoney never had elite O-lines, but he did have a history of developing O-linemen and some of the stats were better than people realized in 2015 and 2016. In fact, the weird thing was that Mahoney was fired after his best statistical season. UT was #10 in Adjusted Line Yards in 2016. The Stuff Rate was #30, / 130 which is reasonably good, particularly considering our level of competition. We did struggle a bit in pass protection, though. Overall, Mahoney was probably a middle-of-the-pack to slightly-above-average OL coach. Walt Wells, on the other hand, was fired at USF for his dismal performance under Willie Taggart. He was exiled to lower-tier programs for a few years before becoming an Analyst under Butch. Our stats and O-line performance plummetted under Wells. Wells was a recruiter, first and foremost. He was terrible at coaching and developing the O-line and it showed.

(2) Firing of Dave Lawson. In April 2016, Butch fired Dave Lawson and basically left an open position on the S&C staff for nearly a year. This was also the period in which the now infamous "shirtless out of shape" team photo was taken. We experienced an unprecedented rash of injuries in 2016, which is likely due in part to poor S&C. In spite of the hire of Rock Gullickson the next season, it never felt like S&C recovered under Butch. Our guys continued to be weaker than their counterparts in the SEC.

(3) The depleted 2015 class. The 2015 class was our Senior (or RS-Jr) class for 2018. It's the most important class for the O-line. Take a look at our 2015 recruiting haul on OL: Drew Richmond, Jack Jones, Chance Hall, Venzell Boulware, and Zach Fulton. Fulton's mom died after he signed and he never ended up enrolling at UT. Boulware transferred to Miami. Jack Jones was forced to retire due to injuries. Chance Hall has also suffered from repeated injuries and never felt close to 100% in 2018. So we signed a class of 5 O-linemen and you can say 1 -2 of them are left in a best case scenario. And Richmond is largely considered to be a huge underachiever; he would probably be re-rated as a 3-star rather than a 5-star.

(4) Bad luck. On top of all of this, we've just had plain ole' bad luck. Our 2 best O-linemen were unavailable for much of the season. Trey Smith's health issues have kept him off the field and may end his career. Kennedy suffered a season-ending injury in the 1st game. That's on top of losing Jack Jones forever and a host of other injuries that have limited several linemen.

(5) Butch's recruiting got worse. Butch Jones recruited well for a few years, but his recruiting clearly got worse during his last two seasons. In spite of the rash of injuries on O-line, Butch only took 3 OLs 2017. At least you can credit him for not going "FULL DOOLEY!", as Dooley failed to recruit O-linemen at all for over a year, but we still needed more guys to replace the ones we'd lost due to injuries and other issues. While we did get Trey Smith in 2017, the rest of the O-line haul was a bit weaker. Riley Locklear may turn out to be good with more experience, but he was probably thrown into the fire a bit early. Similar deal with K'Rojhn Calbert, who lost the entire 2017 season due to a knee injury, and who was more or less coming into 2018 in the same position as a true Freshman. But in reality, we probably needed at least 1 more blue-chip OL in 2017

(6) Scheme change. Then just to top it all off, we went through a scheme change and many of the current O-linemen are a poor fit.


Looking Forward to 2019

I think the O-line will get better next season, but the real question is "how much better?" Many of our guys were probably playing before they were ready (e.g. Locklear, Niehaus). Many were out of position (e.g. Ryan Johnson). Most would benefit from another offseason of S&C.

We'll add at least 2 blue chip recruits and hopefully a 3rd with Darnell Wright. But we'll still be a very young line and true Freshman rarely take starting OL jobs. Nevertheless, our depth will be much better next season.

Overall, I think the narrative that the 2018 O-line performance is all 'coaching staff' is inaccurate. Our issues stem from a series of mistakes by Butch Jones, a scheme change, and a mound of bad luck to go along with that. We'll have a much better sense of how this staff does with the O-line in late 2019 and 2020.

Great take @DiderotsGhost . I think it is also telling that we have signed two massive PWOs for the OL. It shows this staff knows what they are doing.
 
#3
#3
I think you forgot to mention that CJP made Helton use a blocking scheme that our linemen were not recruited for thereby making it very easy for DCs to exploit our weaknesses and live in our backfield. Probably should have stuck with a modified zone read offense for a season or two until we actually have the personnel for a pure pro style.
 
#4
#4
I think you forgot to mention that CJP made Helton use a blocking scheme that our linemen were not recruited for thereby making it very easy for DCs to exploit our weaknesses and live in our backfield. Probably should have stuck with a modified zone read offense for a season or two until we actually have the personnel for a pure pro style.

Well in fairness Helton could have simplified a pro style blocking scheme instead of having so many pull and switch blocks.
 
#5
#5
Wow that's a lot to process at one time. Ill start with some basics from my eyes.
1)S&C either sucked or guys weren't doing it.
2) Scheme change maybe a little but like I said in another post HIT/ BLOCK somebody even if its not the right guy but more often than not it didn't happen.
3) An OL is more about team and trust than most any other type of squad with the center being the brains of it. We either had some guys that didn't buy in or trust the center all to often. A smart center is more as important to the offense as a MLB is to the D.
All to often we have had a revolving door of OL due to injury or whatnot and I just don't think these guys had what it takes to be an SEC OL. With the exception of Smith non of these guys see the field at half the SEC teams and we wont have success with that.
4) We haven't recruited guys that can be successful against FAST 280-300 DLmen. They are either 1/2 second slow coming off the LOS (like they don't know what the snap count is???) or they get pushed off or blown by. Very slow first two steps and you just cant teach that IMO.
5) A lot of the "negavols" think Friend is the problem but IMO he has had success with OLs everywhere he has been he didn't forget how to coach them but you have to have something to work with.
Slow receivers can be good if they run crisp routes and find open areas Slow RBs can be good with a good OLINE opening holes but slow undersize OLmen Wit the offense CJP wants to run aint gonna cut it and it takes a while to get 7-8 guys to fit the bill.
 
#6
#6
Well in fairness Helton could have simplified a pro style blocking scheme instead of having so many pull and switch blocks.
We probably would have been 2-10 if he'd done that. We didn't have a power game OL. May not have one in 2019. I understand the argument that CJP is trying to develop habits and tendencies for the offense he wants to run. He's taking a gamble that he can get the roster he wants before the losses pile up to the point that he gets replaced.
 
#8
#8
Yes. Lots of thought in the OP. Just seems like the bottom line is do you adjust your methods to get the most of the talent you have or do you implement sound methods and hope to get the talent to match. Seems like a good/great offensive coach could figure out how to maximize the available talent and simultaneously work towards the goal of implementing a new system.
 
#9
#9
We probably would have been 2-10 if he'd done that. We didn't have a power game OL. May not have one in 2019. I understand the argument that CJP is trying to develop habits and tendencies for the offense he wants to run. He's taking a gamble that he can get the roster he wants before the losses pile up to the point that he gets replaced.
If nothing else ADPF has shown he his patient ( sometimes to a fault) but I think CJP has 4-5 years and we will see distinct improvement running his scheme with his recruits by year 3. Most of the guys he has now on ol would be piecemeal backups/ depth if we had a full complement of recruits like he is going after in 2019 signings. If we start true freshmen next year it will tell u how bad that ol was with upperclassmen that we played with this year. Look around the league and tell me how many red shirt fresh or Sophs or true freshmen you see starting...
 
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#12
#12
Good analysis as usual DG.

A couple of things, I believe you meant Zach Stewart from Coalfield not Zach Fulton who plays from the Texans. That kid had some of the same intangibles that Jack Jones had and could have made a big impact here.

Also, hate to bring it up but Cade Mays flip during our coaching change added insult to injury. He would have been a day one starter and better than anyone we had not named Trey Smith.
 
#13
#13
Yes. Lots of thought in the OP. Just seems like the bottom line is do you adjust your methods to get the most of the talent you have or do you implement sound methods and hope to get the talent to match. Seems like a good/great offensive coach could figure out how to maximize the available talent and simultaneously work towards the goal of implementing a new system.

I agree with the sentiment, but the reality is when you can't run block, it's difficult to do much of anything successfully on offense. You can try throwing the ball 70% of the time, but your QB is going to get murdered, so it's a "pick your poison" type of deal.

I thought Helton did a great job versus Kentucky, Auburn, and SC, but you can only throw out so many gimmicks to get around the fact that your OL gets pushed back 2 yards at the LOS every play. At some point, you just have to win at the LOS. You can't call 80 gimmick plays per game.
 
#14
#14
Thanks DG

I always felt that DeBord covered up Mahoney's inadequacies and saved his job for a year or two.
DeBord seemed like the only guy who could run Butch's offense and make effective use of the line that he had.
iirc, one year against Bama he had OTs blocking the DEs to the inside and pulling a center to take Bama out of their standard alignment

I also felt that hiring Wells, firing Lawson, and poor performance by Rock all had the same root cause.
Butch seemed to put a priority on making things fun for the guys instead of expecting them to work hard, because he thought that would help with recruiting.
 
#15
#15
Good analysis as usual DG.

A couple of things, I believe you meant Zach Stewart from Coalfield not Zach Fulton who plays from the Texans. That kid had some of the same intangibles that Jack Jones had and could have made a big impact here.

Also, hate to bring it up but Cade Mays flip during our coaching change added insult to injury. He would have been a day one starter and better than anyone we had not named Trey Smith.

Thanks for the correction, VolZen.

You're right on Cade Mays, as well. Butch's recruiting was terrible during the last season (not that uncommon when everyone knows the coach is getting fired) and Pruitt didn't have much time to make up lost ground. Losing Cade Mays stung pretty bad.
 
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#16
#16
A good, thorough assessment.

I remember how excited many were when Wells was hired. Sheesh, what a failure of a hire that was.
 
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#17
#17
Devo182's post on advanced O-line stats was pretty eye-opening. While it's reaffirmed the things many of us have said all season, it's certainly nice to have quantitative proof of that.

Some of the intereting highlights of the Football Outsider stats --- we were:

(1) Dead last on percentage of running plays stuffed behind the line of scrimmage ("Stuff Rate") and not even close to next-to-last,
(2) Bottom 10% in every single run blocking category,
(3) #127 / 130 on Adjusted Line Yards
(4) #103 / 130 on Sack Rate

Football Outsider's stats go back to 2014, so we can compare with much of the Butch Jones era. 2018 was by far the worst performance for the O-line. Worse than 2014. Worse than 2017.


The One Weird Outlier

That said, there's one very weird thing in the data for 2018 --- one stat we were not terrible on: "Passing Down Sack Rate".

This is measure that takes downs that are considered obvious or very likely "passing downs" and looks at the percentage of sacks. We weren't spectacular on this metric, but we were rated #57, which is very middle of the pack. Why were we OK on this, but horrible on every single other metric?

The answer IMO is that every down was a "passing down" for us.

Most teams have a much lower sack rate on "standard downs" than "passing downs." Georgia and Texas are both good examples. On standard downs, their sack rates were around 3.5% - 4.0%. On pass downs, that increased to about 8.5%. Meanwhile, our sack rate was similar on "standard downs" and "passing downs". In fact, the sack rate actually went down a bit on "passing downs" from 8.9% to 7.6%.

Our run blocking was so poor that our opponents didn't respect the run. Probably the greatest example was the South Carolina game where Muschamp decided to play his DBs back and dared us to run and throw short passes. This is not a tactic that he could have applied to any other team in the SEC. He knew we were incapable of winning in the trenches, so he simply had to prevent giving up "big plays".

Other teams simply blitzed to their hearts' content. They weren't concerned about getting bit by the run, because they knew our O-line was going to lose the battle. In essence, our inability to run block undermined everything else, so that opponents were able to treat 1st and 10 or 2nd and 6 just like "passing downs".


Why Were We So Bad?

There are a lot of reasons we were so awful on O-line.

(1) Firing of Mahoney; hiring of Walt Wells. Butch effectively fired Don Mahoney at the end of 2016 and replaced him with Walt Wells. Mahoney never had elite O-lines, but he did have a history of developing O-linemen and some of the stats were better than people realized in 2015 and 2016. In fact, the weird thing was that Mahoney was fired after his best statistical season. UT was #10 in Adjusted Line Yards in 2016. The Stuff Rate was #30, / 130 which is reasonably good, particularly considering our level of competition. We did struggle a bit in pass protection, though. Overall, Mahoney was probably a middle-of-the-pack to slightly-above-average OL coach. Walt Wells, on the other hand, was fired at USF for his dismal performance under Willie Taggart. He was exiled to lower-tier programs for a few years before becoming an Analyst under Butch. Our stats and O-line performance plummetted under Wells. Wells was a recruiter, first and foremost. He was terrible at coaching and developing the O-line and it showed.

(2) Firing of Dave Lawson. In April 2016, Butch fired Dave Lawson and basically left an open position on the S&C staff for nearly a year. This was also the period in which the now infamous "shirtless out of shape" team photo was taken. We experienced an unprecedented rash of injuries in 2016, which is likely due in part to poor S&C. In spite of the hire of Rock Gullickson the next season, it never felt like S&C recovered under Butch. Our guys continued to be weaker than their counterparts in the SEC. While Pruitt went out and hired one of the best S&C directors out there with Craig Fitzgerald, it's still important to remember that our O-linemen spent 2 years with inadequate S&C which hurt their development.

(3) The depleted 2015 class. The 2015 class was our Senior (or RS-Jr) class for 2018. It's the most important class for the O-line. Take a look at our 2015 recruiting haul on OL: Drew Richmond, Jack Jones, Chance Hall, Venzell Boulware, and Zach Stewart. Stewart's mom died after he signed and he never ended up enrolling at UT. Boulware transferred to Miami. Jack Jones was forced to retire due to injuries. Chance Hall has also suffered from repeated injuries and never felt close to 100% in 2018. So we signed a class of 5 O-linemen and you can say 1 -2 of them are left in a best case scenario. And Richmond is largely considered to be a huge underachiever; he would probably be re-rated as a 3-star rather than a 5-star.

(4) Bad luck. On top of all of this, we've just had plain ole' bad luck. Our 2 best O-linemen were unavailable for much of the season. Trey Smith's health issues have kept him off the field and may end his career. Kennedy suffered a season-ending injury in the 1st game. That's on top of losing Jack Jones forever and a host of other injuries that have limited several linemen.

(5) Butch's recruiting got worse. Butch Jones recruited well for a few years, but his recruiting clearly got worse during his last two seasons. In spite of the rash of injuries on O-line, Butch only took 3 OLs 2017. At least you can credit him for not going "FULL DOOLEY!", as Dooley failed to recruit O-linemen at all for over a year, but we still needed more guys to replace the ones we'd lost due to injuries and other issues. While we did get Trey Smith in 2017, the rest of the O-line haul was a bit weaker. Riley Locklear may turn out to be good with more experience, but he was probably thrown into the fire a bit early. Similar deal with K'Rojhn Calbert, who lost the entire 2017 season due to a knee injury, and who was more or less coming into 2018 in the same position as a true Freshman. But in reality, we probably needed at least 1 more blue-chip OL in 2017

(6) Scheme change. Then just to top it all off, we went through a scheme change and many of the current O-linemen are a poor fit.


Looking Forward to 2019

I think the O-line will get better next season, but the real question is "how much better?" Many of our guys were probably playing before they were ready (e.g. Locklear, Niehaus). Many were out of position (e.g. Ryan Johnson). Most would benefit from another offseason of S&C.

We'll add at least 2 blue chip recruits and hopefully a 3rd with Darnell Wright. But we'll still be a very young line and true Freshman rarely take starting OL jobs. Nevertheless, our depth will be much better next season.

Overall, I think the narrative that the 2018 O-line performance is all 'coaching staff' is inaccurate. Our issues stem from a series of mistakes by Butch Jones, a scheme change, and a mound of bad luck to go along with that. We'll have a much better sense of how this staff does with the O-line in late 2019 and 2020.
Wow, thanks for taking the time to put this together. Really well-organized synopsis on the total picture that was our offensive line.
 
#18
#18
I always felt that DeBord covered up Mahoney's inadequacies and saved his job for a year or two. DeBord seemed like the only guy who could run Butch's offense and make effective use of the line that he had. iirc, one year against Bama he had OTs blocking the DEs to the inside and pulling a center to take Bama out of their standard alignment

You might be right. The O-line was best when DeBord was around.

But then again, I wonder if Mahoney, like Shoop, was undermined by Butch. A lot of the injuries were a result of Butch's terrible practices, which put a ton of stress particularly on our linemens' knees and ankles. Then add in the disaster at S&C and it becomes obvious that Mahoney wasn't exactly operating in the best of circumstances, either.

That said, pass protection was a consistent problem under Mahoney. He seemed to be better at teaching run blocking (which we were very good at for a bit) than pass protection. But pretty obvious when both Mahoney and DeBord left, the O-line regressed big-time under Wells.

I also felt that hiring Wells, firing Lawson, and poor performance by Rock all had the same root cause.
Butch seemed to put a priority on making things fun for the guys instead of expecting them to work hard, because he thought that would help with recruiting.

I think you're spot-on with this.
 
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#19
#19
We probably would have been 2-10 if he'd done that. We didn't have a power game OL. May not have one in 2019. I understand the argument that CJP is trying to develop habits and tendencies for the offense he wants to run. He's taking a gamble that he can get the roster he wants before the losses pile up to the point that he gets replaced.

I mean at what point do you blame the players and not the coach? The coach can’t stop a lineman for letting a guy shoot straight through.
 
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#22
#22
When you take kids who...for the most part....aren't scholarly types and subject them to repeated change year after year, I suspect some degree of fall off and confusion will result. Kids need time and repetition to become comfortable/proficient at their craft. What this program desperately needs is the same staff, the same system...consistency...for the next several years.
 
#23
#23
Wow that's a lot to process at one time. Ill start with some basics from my eyes.
1)S&C either sucked or guys weren't doing it.
2) Scheme change maybe a little but like I said in another post HIT/ BLOCK somebody even if its not the right guy but more often than not it didn't happen.
3) An OL is more about team and trust than most any other type of squad with the center being the brains of it. We either had some guys that didn't buy in or trust the center all to often. A smart center is more as important to the offense as a MLB is to the D.
All to often we have had a revolving door of OL due to injury or whatnot and I just don't think these guys had what it takes to be an SEC OL. With the exception of Smith non of these guys see the field at half the SEC teams and we wont have success with that.
4) We haven't recruited guys that can be successful against FAST 280-300 DLmen. They are either 1/2 second slow coming off the LOS (like they don't know what the snap count is???) or they get pushed off or blown by. Very slow first two steps and you just cant teach that IMO.
5) A lot of the "negavols" think Friend is the problem but IMO he has had success with OLs everywhere he has been he didn't forget how to coach them but you have to have something to work with.
Slow receivers can be good if they run crisp routes and find open areas Slow RBs can be good with a good OLINE opening holes but slow undersize OLmen Wit the offense CJP wants to run aint gonna cut it and it takes a while to get 7-8 guys to fit the bill.

on # 1, Jones went one season without a S&C coach so players ignored doing it, to a great degree. Plus that office had as much turnover as coordinator jobs have had. Constant change to philosophy in those roles leads to very poorly developed athletes.

The solution, which no likes to hear, is to flip the roster and start from scratch. Players brought in by this staff can be coached and developed by this staff. trying to make the players that have had little guidance and initiative will not get the current staff very far. Too many of them won't make it. Better to move forward.

I think the next 6 months will see a lot more of the Jones players hitting the road...
 
#24
#24
We probably would have been 2-10 if he'd done that. We didn't have a power game OL. May not have one in 2019. I understand the argument that CJP is trying to develop habits and tendencies for the offense he wants to run. He's taking a gamble that he can get the roster he wants before the losses pile up to the point that he gets replaced.

I believe he can get a roster up to win 8 or 9 games a year with his offensive scheme. Take a very very long time to win more than that; several good recruiting classes. To win with this type of offense in my opinion you have to have equal or better talent than your opponent.
 
#25
#25
Reasons why the Oline sucked?

Simple. No toughness, meanness, fighting attitude. Chess club members with pocket protectors. Small. Unwilling. No personal foul type.

How to fix.

Recruit big guys with strength in attitude and body. Smart guys who like to fight. Some who aren't smart but still like to fight. Play until after the whistle. Take pride in their work and when their QB takes a cheap shot. They respond, not shrug their shoulders.
 

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