Why was Mustang package so dismal?

#30
#30
It was the opposite of the Falcon's Grits Blitz back in the late 70's.

I think the Grits Blitz worked more often though, from what I can remember.
 
#31
#31
It was basically just a Dime defense with 6DBs (Nickel is 5DBs..thus Nickel) with 4 down linemen and a LB allegedly to spy on the QB and stop the Draw play or similar running plays designed to "catch the defense snoozing". Chavis had the DBs giving 7yd to 10yd cushions and of course we got picked apart underneath.

The "prevent" defense doesnt work and we used it in the wrong situations constantly like when were only up by a TD. The prevent (Mustang) defense isnt even designed for that. Its designed to keep an offense from scoring QUICKLY with deep bombs when a team is up by 2 scores or more and there's only 2 or 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. The logic being that as long as you make the team burn clock completing passes underneath and tackling them IN BOUNDS, they will never have enough time to drive the field, kick you the ball and stop you, then drive the field again for the winning score. The fact that Chavis/Fulmer went to a prevent defense regularly only up by 10 points or less was infuriating because its stupid. Thats not even what the defense is designed to do, when run flawlessly. Which we didn't do.

In HS, when in a Dime/prevent the DBs are told " NOTHING gets behind you. No matter what." Thats it. Its a Zone based defense similar to "Quarters" but with 6DBs instead. Give as much cushion as needed, but never ever let a WR, TE, RB etc get behind the defense for a deep score. Despite this being literally the ONLY rule for DBs in this alignment, in recent history we let Oklahoma WR run right past multiple DBs for a 70yd TD to beat us. Among others. We managed to get completely humiliated on national TV at least 3 times in the last 10 years under Lyle, Dooley and Cornbred. As someone who played defense all the way through HS football, there were damages to my home on each occasion from this absolute debacle in coaching and execution. So while we can, and should; mock the Mustang defense....Chavis is far from alone and his defenses actually kept the passes in front of them. The other 3 BOOBS did things that should have cost the DB coaches their jobs on the SPOT. Humiliating.
 
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#32
#32
#1fulmerite said:
For some of you more astute fans, why was Chavis’ Mustang package on 3rd and 4th downs so terrible? Was it lack of pressure on QB’s or too deep of a zone?
Click to expand...
There was nothing inherently wrong with the formation. The problem was the philosophy of not bringing pressure on 3rd and 4th down. It doesn't work in college or in the NFL. A good qb will find a target if he has enough time and Chavis consistently gave them enough time on 3rd and long.
 
#33
#33
I remember one of those UCLA games, and the Bruins had it 3rd and goal from around the 4. We had our DB literally standing six yards deep in the end zone, he was so far off the ball. The UCLA WR ran to the goal line , turned and caught the ball for the TD. Larry Slade was the DB coach then.

It was then I realized some coaches are brain damaged.
 
#36
#36
OrangeBeachVol said:
During that period I would rather the D be facing a 3rd and 1 or 2 rather that a 3rd and 22. Chances of stopping the 3rd and 2 were much higher.
Click to expand...

I said for years during the Chavis days that if I was the opponent and had 3rd & short that I'd take a couple of delay of games or off-sides to get it in a more "manageable" 3rd & 10+.
 
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#37
#37
BigorangeBoy said:
I remember one of those UCLA games, and the Bruins had it 3rd and goal from around the 4. We had our DB literally standing six yards deep in the end zone, he was so far off the ball. The UCLA WR ran to the goal line , turned and caught the ball for the TD. Larry Slade was the DB coach then.

It was then I realized some coaches are brain damaged.
Click to expand...

Slade is a wonderful coach and an even better person.
 
#38
#38
The problem was modern offenses are just hard to stop; especially what Florida put out there for 15 years. The worst thing that ever happened to the “Mustang” was that the name got out so that it gave fans something to blame every time a pass got completed.

Whatever you want to call it, it’s Dime coverage. Everybody plays it.
 
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#39
#39
GAVol said:
The problem was modern offenses are just hard to stop; especially what Florida put out there for 15 years. The worst thing that ever happened to the “Mustang” was that the name got out so that it gave fans something to blame every time a pass got completed.

Whatever you want to call it, it’s Dime coverage. Everybody plays it.
Click to expand...
exactly
 
#42
#42
#1fulmerite said:
For some of you more astute fans, why was Chavis’ Mustang package on 3rd and 4th downs so terrible? Was it lack of pressure on QB’s or too deep of a zone?
Click to expand...

I saw the stats that Chavis had and the package was successful 80% of the time. that is why he ran it and why you see many teams play it.. But like most things, failures are remembered more than successes.
 
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#43
#43
LWSVOL said:
I saw the stats that Chavis had and the package was successful 80% of the time. that is why he ran it and why you see many teams play it.. But like most things, failures are remembered more than successes.
Click to expand...
So true . . . Here we are 15 years later and people are still complaining about it. So funny how giving up yardage in a 2 minute drive is something that is heroic if your team does it, but an epic failure if somebody else does it.
 
#44
#44
#1fulmerite said:
For some of you more astute fans, why was Chavis’ Mustang package on 3rd and 4th downs so terrible? Was it lack of pressure on QB’s or too deep of a zone?
Click to expand...

I remember seeing DB's line up on receivers 8-10yrd back and then back up another 5 yards before the hike. Way too much cushion, way too much time for the offense to throw. It was not a good combination
 
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#45
#45
LWSVOL said:
I saw the stats that Chavis had and the package was successful 80% of the time. that is why he ran it and why you see many teams play it.. But like most things, failures are remembered more than successes.
Click to expand...
Chavis also took his defensive mindset and became the highest paid DC in college football at LSU then got a raise to bolt to A&M if I remember correctly.
 
#47
#47
marcusluvsvols said:
It was basically just a Dime defense with 6DBs (Nickel is 5DBs..thus Nickel) with 4 down linemen and a LB allegedly to spy on the QB and stop the Draw play or similar running plays designed to "catch the defense snoozing". Chavis had the DBs giving 7yd to 10yd cushions and of course we got picked apart underneath.

The "prevent" defense doesnt work and we used it in the wrong situations constantly like when were only up by a TD. The prevent (Mustang) defense isnt even designed for that. Its designed to keep an offense from scoring QUICKLY with deep bombs when a team is up by 2 scores or more and there's only 2 or 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. The logic being that as long as you make the team burn clock completing passes underneath and tackling them IN BOUNDS, they will never have enough time to drive the field, kick you the ball and stop you, then drive the field again for the winning score. The fact that Chavis/Fulmer went to a prevent defense regularly only up by 10 points or less was infuriating because its stupid. Thats not even what the defense is designed to do, when run flawlessly. Which we didn't do.

In HS, when in a Dime/prevent the DBs are told " NOTHING gets behind you. No matter what." Thats it. Its a Zone based defense similar to "Quarters" but with 6DBs instead. Give as much cushion as needed, but never ever let a WR, TE, RB etc get behind the defense for a deep score. Despite this being literally the ONLY rule for DBs in this alignment, in recent history we let Oklahoma WR run right past multiple DBs for a 70yd TD to beat us. Among others. We managed to get completely humiliated on national TV at least 3 times in the last 10 years under Lyle, Dooley and Cornbred. As someone who played defense all the way through HS football, there were damages to my home on each occasion from this absolute debacle in coaching and execution. So while we can, and should; mock the Mustang defense....Chavis is far from alone and his defenses actually kept the passes in front of them. The other 3 BOOBS did things that should have cost the DB coaches their jobs on the SPOT. Humiliating.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. I think the reason Chavis gets mocked so much about it, at least by me, is the fact that every time he was asked about going into prevent defense he bristled and said “it isn’t prevent defense, it’s the mustang package”…. Que the John Candy “sure sure” gif.
 
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