william ayers and hugo chaves concerning education.

[onevolfan]

i do research, i find out what they stand for, etc. to me i try to find someone i line up morally with. to be honest, i'm not a big fan of mccain. here's the first issue i look at. where do they stand on pro life/pro choice? the fact that Obama doesn't know when life begins bothers me a lot. to be honest obama has said many times during the past few months he "doesn't know" about a lot of things.

of course the tax issue is big. then how about energy? the fact that dem's aren't for drilling here is something i disagree with. then you also have to look at their stance on the war. and so on and so on.

what is it that you like about obama onevolfan?

I actually have done research myself, and I like what Obama stands for. He wants to help the middle class and poor people. What he's wanting to do to help the economy. His stance on HC. I agree with his stance on the war, and that we do need a timetable of some sort to get out of Iraq. I think that a lot of times republicans just look at the abortion issue and nothing else. McCain has shown me nothing that he is out to help middle class people, and that 4 years of him will be nothing but a continuation of the past 8. There may be things that Obama doesn't know, and he will at least admit that he doesn't rather than lie about it. I believe those things he doesn't know that he is intelligent enough to consult with the right people and do the right thing. I remember the first time I saw him a few years ago speaking at one of the conventions, and thinking what a smart person he was and that someday he could be president. I may have been right about that. McCain rarely talks about the issues, and spends most of the time bashing Obama, or I guess that is really Palin's job.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

I actually have done research myself, and I like what Obama stands for. He wants to help the middle class and poor people. What he's wanting to do to help the economy. His stance on HC. I agree with his stance on the war, and that we do need a timetable of some sort to get out of Iraq. I think that a lot of times republicans just look at the abortion issue and nothing else. McCain has shown me nothing that he is out to help middle class people, and that 4 years of him will be nothing but a continuation of the past 8. There may be things that Obama doesn't know, and he will at least admit that he doesn't rather than lie about it. I believe those things he doesn't know that he is intelligent enough to consult with the right people and do the right thing. I remember the first time I saw him a few years ago speaking at one of the conventions, and thinking what a smart person he was and that someday he could be president. I may have been right about that. McCain rarely talks about the issues, and spends most of the time bashing Obama, or I guess that is really Palin's job.

1st bold part: you really think he is going to cut everyones taxes considering how much he is wanting to spend on new govt programs(aka bigger govt)?

2nd bold part: i take it you think healthcare is a right? universal healthcare is the wrong way to go about it. why do you think people from all over the world come to america for health care?

3rd bold part: personally this is not the case w/ me, but being a Christian my faith tells me that abortion is killing.


4th bold(McCain supposedly not helping the middle class etc): so what do you think of his tax break for people who have children? considering he is wanting to double that for each child. No offense but the whole McCain is another 4 yrs of Bush is pathetic, get new material

5th bold part: And you criticize Palin on lack of experience wow

6th bold part: Looking at the debates, looks like Obama refuses to answer the questions, he's a good speaker no doubt, but he turns the que around into some nonsense about something else, and all these tree huggers automatically drool over him

What do you think about gun control? Obama is flip floppin on it, personally i don't want some dbag telling me what to do w/ my guns. i'll be damned if they take my guns from me

 

[KB5252]

I would say it was the wrong choice based on the cherrypicked intelligence at the time. Unless Bob Woodward and Ron Suskinds books are a complete fabrication, the administration manipulated the intelligence to paint a picture to garner support for their agenda. 9-11 provided just enough support to where nobody was really going to question it, or have the political courage to stand up against it. Colin Powell realized this and decided to jump ship after Bush's first term. Al Quada links, WMD's, and terrorism support were either flat out false, or exaggerated.

It wasn't just Obama either, 123 Representatives and and 23 Senators also voted against the resolution. It doesn't take a psychic to say "Wait a minute, we aren't even done in Afghanistan yet, Bin Laden hasn't been killed, and this intelligence doesn't add up." No one could have proved the intelligence was faulty, but they could have realized it doesn't make any sense. Iraq was on this administration's agenda from day one, 9-11 gave them the support they needed. It was not much unlike this bail out bill....take a crisis, throw together some scary information, and get it passed before any real hearings or investigations can be completed.

I did oversimplify the vote on Iraq I will admit.
It was on the agenda and should have been IMO, but I think they put too much into Iraq too quickly. I believe they should have used more resources in Afghanistan, killed Bin Laden and then finish Sadaam off.

This was pushed by Bush and senior democrats (we all know the names) because they all knew they had some major explaining to do. It appears it has worked for them as far as getting the blame squarely off their shoulders. I didn't really like the bill but wasn't sure what other options we had. It certainly does not look to have had the effect they hoped so far does it?

 

[onevolfan]

1st bold part: you really think he is going to cut everyones taxes considering how much he is wanting to spend on new govt programs(aka bigger govt)?

2nd bold part: i take it you think healthcare is a right? universal healthcare is the wrong way to go about it. why do you think people from all over the world come to america for health care?

3rd bold part: personally this is not the case w/ me, but being a Christian my faith tells me that abortion is killing.


4th bold(McCain supposedly not helping the middle class etc): so what do you think of his tax break for people who have children? considering he is wanting to double that for each child. No offense but the whole McCain is another 4 yrs of Bush is pathetic, get new material

5th bold part: And you criticize Palin on lack of experience wow

6th bold part: Looking at the debates, looks like Obama refuses to answer the questions, he's a good speaker no doubt, but he turns the que around into some nonsense about something else, and all these tree huggers automatically drool over him

What do you think about gun control? Obama is flip floppin on it, personally i don't want some dbag telling me what to do w/ my guns. i'll be damned if they take my guns from me

No. 1 - I'm willing to take my chances on him. He didn't say he was going to cut everyones taxes.
No. 2 - I disagree with you about people from all over the world coming here for healthcare. What about the Americans, especially the elderly, who can't afford their prescriptions, and have to go to Canada, Mexico or somewhere else just because they can get them at a cheaper cost.
No 3. - I go along with abortion in some cases. If the mother's life is in danger or in cases of incest and rape. But I believe it should be left up to the individual to decide for themselves.
No. 4. - His tax break for people with children is not going to help me any right now, because mine are grown and on their own. If this is the only good thing about McCain, then I'll pass.
No.5 - She does have lack of experience. Even people in her own party feel the same way. Being Governor of Alaska doesn't mean she is qualified to be VP. It would be one thing if she even "appeared" to be smart, but she can't even do that.
No. 6 - Wow, did you even watch the debate? Tell me something that Obama didn't answer. And speaking of someone who avoided answering the questions, Palin is the champion of that.

Gun control - I really could care less about that issue. I don't own a gun.

 

[KB5252]

I actually have done research myself, and I like what Obama stands for. He wants to help the middle class and poor people. What he's wanting to do to help the economy. His stance on HC. I agree with his stance on the war, and that we do need a timetable of some sort to get out of Iraq. I think that a lot of times republicans just look at the abortion issue and nothing else. McCain has shown me nothing that he is out to help middle class people, and that 4 years of him will be nothing but a continuation of the past 8. There may be things that Obama doesn't know, and he will at least admit that he doesn't rather than lie about it. I believe those things he doesn't know that he is intelligent enough to consult with the right people and do the right thing. I remember the first time I saw him a few years ago speaking at one of the conventions, and thinking what a smart person he was and that someday he could be president. I may have been right about that. McCain rarely talks about the issues, and spends most of the time bashing Obama, or I guess that is really Palin's job.

I would encourage you to look at actions onevolfan. Look at what he has done and what the result of those actions were.

This is not completely fair and I understand that but look at what he has done for the people he represented in Illinois before running for president. The reason I concede it is not entirely fair is because the system there is so corrupt you have to make sleazy deals to get anywhere. Bottom line is he was a part of that system and certainly did not speak out for reform or accountability there.

He lead demonstrations at banks wanting them to give subprime loans to inner city people, trying to get banks to make "bad loans" by claiming the banks lending practices were biased and racist. Fast forward a number of years and here we are in the middle of a financial fiasco brought about by the very thing he fought so hard for, subprime loans. This is most certainly an issue he was wrong about and will end up costing us all huge amounts of money.

 

[onevolfan]

I would encourage you to look at actions onevolfan. Look at what he has done and what the result of those actions were.

This is not completely fair and I understand that but look at what he has done for the people he represented in Illinois before running for president. The reason I concede it is not entirely fair is because the system there is so corrupt you have to make sleazy deals to get anywhere. Bottom line is he was a part of that system and certainly did not speak out for reform or accountability there.

He lead demonstrations at banks wanting them to give subprime loans to inner city people, trying to get banks to make "bad loans" by claiming the banks lending practices were biased and racist. Fast forward a number of years and here we are in the middle of a financial fiasco brought about by the very thing he fought so hard for, subprime loans. This is most certainly an issue he was wrong about and will end up costing us all huge amounts of money.

Well then, you need to encourage lots of other people to look at actions too because Obama is Winning!!lol:

 

[Vol Mania 21]

and the ppl on that pin are some classy individuals

 

[onevolfan]

and the ppl on that pin are some classy individuals

:hi:

Yes, they are!

 

[onevolfan]

and the ppl on that pin are some classy individuals

Maybe you would like this one better.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

considering that language, no thanks

 

[Vol Mania 21]

:hi:

Yes, they are!

ur officially on crack

 

[rjd970]

I did oversimplify the vote on Iraq I will admit.
It was on the agenda and should have been IMO, but I think they put too much into Iraq too quickly. I believe they should have used more resources in Afghanistan, killed Bin Laden and then finish Sadaam off.

I will agree that Saddam needed to be dealt with. And I agree that this administration plowed ahead with this agenda, but sometimes it was done in a "less than ethical" way, especially with the intelligence. I understand the need to achieve victory now that we are there, but anger about the lead-up to the war is warranted IMO. We can all support the troops and the mission they are doing, and we can still hold the way this administration handled the pre-war build up as a referendum on Bush's policy and doctrine.

The problem I have is everytime this is brought up it turns into an "ends justify the means" argument by the conservatives, and we are there, so let's achieve victory. Well, the "means" are what a democracy is about. Without it, it becomes a matter of a few deciding (or in this case, manipulating) the rest of us to go all with what they say.

Is it good Saddam is dead? Yes. Is it good we have a shot at establishing a democracy in the middle east? Yes. Was all this worth the way it was sold to us? No, not in the least.

 

[onevolfan]

considering that language, no thanks

Is this one better?

 

[Vol Mania 21]

if u say so, i think that saying got old quick

 

[KB5252]

No. 1 - I'm willing to take my chances on him. He didn't say he was going to cut everyones taxes.
No. 2 - I disagree with you about people from all over the world coming here for healthcare. What about the Americans, especially the elderly, who can't afford their prescriptions, and have to go to Canada, Mexico or somewhere else just because they can get them at a cheaper cost.
People from all over the world come to this country because we have the best healthcare the world has to offer. In many cases the drugs you are getting from Canada, in some cases and Mexico almost always are inferior products and in some cases have proven to be deadly, the wrong dosage etc. Prescription costs do need to be brought down, there is no denying that.

As for healthcare overall our main problem here in price is that we as a whole pay for those that don't pay. Throw in the fact that those who don't pay use the emergency room like a clinic and you only compound that problem. That would go a long way to help bring down price. Malpractice insurance in many cases prohibit some practices from doing business in some areas, that is also a problem.

UHC sounds like a great idea at first but when you study those countries that have adopted it you soon see it fails in practice. Every country that has had it for any period of time has seen the same results, either the country goes further into debt trying to pay for it while the quality of care provided also suffers, or people seeking treatment have to wait long periods of time to even see a doctor much less receive the treatments needed.
No 3. - I go along with abortion in some cases. If the mother's life is in danger or in cases of incest and rape. But I believe it should be left up to the individual to decide for themselves.
No. 4. - His tax break for people with children is not going to help me any right now, because mine are grown and on their own. If this is the only good thing about McCain, then I'll pass.
No.5 - She does have lack of experience. Even people in her own party feel the same way. Being Governor of Alaska doesn't mean she is qualified to be VP. It would be one thing if she even "appeared" to be smart, but she can't even do that.
No. 6 - Wow, did you even watch the debate? Tell me something that Obama didn't answer. And speaking of someone who avoided answering the questions, Palin is the champion of that.

Gun control - I really could care less about that issue. I don't own a gun.

Are you saying you don't believe in others rights to own them? I own guns but I do not hunt, still I will defend others rights to do so if they wish. Just because you choose not to exercise a particular right does not mean you have no obligation to defend it.

 

[onevolfan]

Are you saying you don't believe in others rights to own them? I own guns but I do not hunt, still I will defend others rights to do so if they wish. Just because you choose not to exercise a particular right does not mean you have no obligation to defend it.

I don't care if other people own them. I'm just saying I don't have one.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

Weather Underground Victim Says Obama Should Have Known of Ayers' Past - FOXNews.com Elections

 

[MG1968]

Obama's proxies are lying about him not knowing about Ayers.

 

[rjd970]

This Ayers business is funny. I have said this before...all it does is rile up the republicans and foxnews crowd....any democrat that has already decided to vote for Obama will at this point no matter what, and anybody that is still undecided at this point are too lazy or too stupid to see the difference anyway.

So let's keep on harping on it, keep those republican votes coming in, because nobody else really seems to care.

 

[VolByBirth]

What does Barack Obama have in common with Osama Bin Laden?

they both know someone who tried to blow up the Pentagon.

But it wasn't an issue that Bush Sr and Hussein were once "Friendly"?

Was it an issue that the Bin Laden and Bush families are very closely tied?

I would argue the current administrations ties to the War on Terror are far more veiled and interconnected than you are trying to paint onto Obama. No one on the right seemed to have issue with this before -- why should it be an issue now?

 

[JZVOL]

This Ayers business is funny. I have said this before...all it does is rile up the republicans and foxnews crowd....any democrat that has already decided to vote for Obama will at this point no matter what, and anybody that is still undecided at this point are too lazy or too stupid to see the difference anyway.

So let's keep on harping on it, keep those republican votes coming in, because nobody else really seems to care.

Yes, and it's a huge problem.

 

[MG1968]

But it wasn't an issue that Bush Sr and Hussein were once "Friendly"?

Was it an issue that the Bin Laden and Bush families are very closely tied?

I would argue the current administrations ties to the War on Terror are far more veiled and interconnected than you are trying to paint onto Obama. No one on the right seemed to have issue with this before -- why should it be an issue now?

1) Iran

2) nice dailyKOS talking point

3) not sure what your point here is, unless you're hinting around that 9-11 was an inside job.

 

[rjd970]

The Bush/Bin Laden ties are bogus. However, the CIA/Bin Laden ties aren't. We helped arm this guy against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and he waged jihad against them for the same reasons he is on us today.

The U.S./Hussein ties during the 80's against Iran are well known and documented. We had a common enemy against Iran.

The whole problem is our propensity for selling out to dictators and two-bit thugs in order to accomplish a short-term strategic goal.

 

[BigPapaVol]

The Bush/Bin Laden ties are bogus. However, the CIA/Bin Laden ties aren't. We helped arm this guy against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and he waged jihad against them for the same reasons he is on us today.

The U.S./Hussein ties during the 80's against Iran are well known and documented. We had a common enemy against Iran.

The whole problem is our propensity for selling out to dictators and two-bit thugs in order to accomplish a short-term strategic goal.

using proxies to wage war against the Soviets or Iran could hardly be seen as short-term strategic interests.

 

[rjd970]

using proxies to wage war against the Soviets or Iran could hardly be seen as short-term strategic interests.

Depends on what you consider short-term. I think we were worried about the 5 year ramifications more than the decades long ramifications of these conflicts. Even if Iraq came out as the victor against the Iranians, they still would have disagreed with our foreign policy in the region. This certainly happened in Afghanistan after they repelled the Soviets.