World War II: Decisive Point in Nazi Defeat

At what point did the Nazi's snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory?

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#26
#26
Another nitpicking argument, their air force only used 93 octane in their planes......the allies used 100 octane.

Good times!

Oh yeah, back to topic, it would have to be Dunkirk.
 
#27
#27
What was Britain's military strength at the time of Dunkirk? Was the 338,000 or so saved the bulk of their army?
 
#28
#28
1 Stalingrad

2 American daylight bombing

3 The failure to stop American supplies/weapons from reaching Britian

4 The withholding of German armor divisions at Normandy

in that order
 
#29
#29
When Albert Einstein renounced his German citizenship in 1933 and emigrated to the US certainly played a role.
 
#31
#31
I voted for other, although the defeat at Stalingrad was ket to their defeat on the Eastern Front. I think D-Day was the turning point for them and the beginning of the end.
 
#32
#32
Athensvol said:
I voted for other, although the defeat at Stalingrad was ket to their defeat on the Eastern Front. I think D-Day was the turning point for them and the beginning of the end.
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I would have to say that D-Day was just another nail in the coffin.

After losing the Battle for the Atlantic, control of North Africa and Italy, and stalling out around Stalingrad, Germany had absolutely no hopes of doing anything other than prolonging the war by the time we landed on the beaches of Northern France.
 
#33
#33
I think the timing of the invassion of Russia was a key. Along with not preparing for the Russian winter.
 
#34
#34
Establishment of the German High Command full of Hitler's inner circle.............nut jobs.

Though, the witchcraft stuff and astrological signs are odd and interesting at the same time.
 
#35
#35
this is a rehash of an older debate, but my vote still falls on failure of Germans to defeat the British, either at Dunkirk or in the Battle of Britain.
 
#38
#38
So what your saying is what I said on the first page......

The lack of a long range bomber???????????????

Furthermore if they had won the air war, how in the world would they cross the channel without proper landing craft?
 
#39
#39
therealUT said:
Exactly how did that play a role in the NAZI defeat?
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I'm agreeing in a few ways with you here.

If he hadn't renounced his Austrian citizenship and then took up Swiss citizenship, then American - he could have been living in the new Germany. However, that does not mean that he would have helped them develop the bomb or technologies for war. In fact, there is no reason to believe he would have. He was a pacifist, did not work on our bomb, and only suggested to FDR to look into it after begged by fellow scientist and convinced that the Germans were doing it.

By coming to the US, he didn't even really help us beat the Japanese...his role in the bomb was very small - and while his letter did help convince FDR, I'm pretty sure that V. Bush and A. Compton would have convinced him before it was too late.
 
#40
#40
"There you go again with the negative waves!"
"Can't you dig how beautiful it is out here?"
"Why can you say something hopeful and righteous for once?"

I don't care how historically inaccurate it is, the movie is fun. A&E had Kelly's Heroes and Where Eagles Dare playing back to back last week. I loved it.
 
#41
#41
On topic, I think Hitler's decision to attack Russia when he did was key. I have read that he admired the English and hoped to reach an accommodation. There seemed to be several members of the British royalty with those kind of leanings, the most notable being the Duke of Windsor. There was a recent program about Rudolph Hess that led me to believe his flight to Scotland was expected by certain Brits.

Long story short, I think Hitler prematurely turned on Russia because he felt an expensive invasion could be avoided and a deal done with the Brits.
 
#42
#42
TennTradition said:
I'm agreeing in a few ways with you here.

If he hadn't renounced his Austrian citizenship and then took up Swiss citizenship, then American - he could have been living in the new Germany. However, that does not mean that he would have helped them develop the bomb or technologies for war. In fact, there is no reason to believe he would have. He was a pacifist, did not work on our bomb, and only suggested to FDR to look into it after begged by fellow scientist and convinced that the Germans were doing it.

By coming to the US, he didn't even really help us beat the Japanese...his role in the bomb was very small - and while his letter did help convince FDR, I'm pretty sure that V. Bush and A. Compton would have convinced him before it was too late.
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Don't forget the serendipitous event that caused some 3.5 million pounds of uranium ore to leave the Congo and arrive in NY so Germany could not grab it.
 
#43
#43
You're all wrong. Hitler was definitively defeated at Kursk.

The drastic waste of tank assets and half a million soldiers in mid 1943 turns the tide for the Russians to lift the siege of Leningrad, and go on the offensive.

Can you imagine if somehow those assets has still existed and been free to defend Normandy?!?!
 
#44
#44
Can't agree. Hitler was weakened by Allied bombing from England and the resource drain in North Africa. Stalin got an assist from the shipping to Murmansk. None of this would have been possible if England had capitulated in '41. Stalin could not have withstood the Reich's total focus to make it to '43.
 
#45
#45
Plano Vol said:
Can't agree. Hitler was weakened by Allied bombing from England and the resource drain in North Africa. Stalin got an assist from the shipping to Murmansk. None of this would have been possible if England had capitulated in '41. Stalin could not have withstood the Reich's total focus to make it to '43.
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The defeat of the Afrika Korps. came before the German offensive at Kursk. The only action we provided to create a second front during that offensive was the invasion of Sicily, and the Germans provided only a token force for that defense (approx. 365,000 italians, only 40,000 germans).

So I will politely disagree. :)
 
#46
#46
Montgomery got the best of Rommel in '42. If England was off the board in '41, North Africa would not have occurred and all of the men and equipment consumed in North Africa and Malta would have been available to use against Russia.
 
#47
#47
Plano Vol said:
Montgomery got the best of Rommel in '42. If England was off the board in '41, North Africa would not have occurred and all of the men and equipment consumed in North Africa and Malta would have been available to use against Russia.
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You don't think that Patton and the II Corps. had anything to do with the victory in N. Africa? After Kasserine it was the combined efforts of Monty and Patton that squeezed out the Afrika Korps. Neither of us can say with certainty what would have occurred in N. Africa without the Brits... would the Americans have been able to be successful alone? Would the Americans have even SHOWN UP? Dunno.
 
#48
#48
Kursk was the largest land battle ever fought in terms of men.

Crazy stuff.....we talked about this in a military thread a long, long, long time ago.

Reading the reports from boths side=amazing....
 
#49
#49
OrangeEmpire said:
Kursk was the largest land battle ever fought in terms of men.

Crazy stuff.....we talked about this in a military thread a long, long, long time ago.

Reading the reports from boths side=amazing....
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One reason I picked it... I just wanted it to get fair due. Largest tank battle in history, and most Americans have never heard of it b/c it was on the Eastern Front.
 
#50
#50
rwemyss said:
One reason I picked it... I just wanted it to get fair due. Largest tank battle in history, and most Americans have never heard of it b/c it was on the Eastern Front.
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I took the averages from both sides and there was over 3 million soldiers involved in that battle.

Most don't realize how long the battle went.
 
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