wow ..Two steps forward, ten steps backward

[sisaq]

"When a team loose a game,u see it in their eyes the way they play the next game," I'm just tired..

 

[orangealways]

Huh????

 

[sccshortstop]

it ought to be tired!

 

[RollerVol]

that DD oughta know better than that...when you change your hair balance, you gotta work that out in practice...you don't bring that cold into the game...fashion over function don't work on the court...

GO LADY VOLS!

 

[Tenacguy50]

Personally I'll be glad when DD graduates.

 

[ladyvosl23]

I will say the chemistry has changed when diamond came to TENN. and her shooting 4-15 does not help I mean dang you can't score 6-15 . Like this team is just horrible

 

[Amb3096]

I see we're back to blaming Diamond...

I hope she goes to the WBNA this season. As the season progresses, she will probably realize she made the biggest mistake of her life transferring to play for Holly, so will cut her losses.

Who to blame next year...My money's on Jaime and Te'a. Anastasia and Evina can be blamed the following season...

 

[UCMiami]

I see we're back to blaming Diamond...

I hope she goes to the WBNA this season. As the season progresses, she will probably realize she made the biggest mistake of her life transferring to play for Holly, so will cut her losses.

Who to blame next year...My money's on Jaime and Te'a. Anastasia and Evina can be blamed the following season...

I agree that when every year fans are blaming specific players, or even groups of players or the whole team, they are being myopic - the problem is not with the player but with the coach who is enabling the sequence of players being blamed.

That has been the habit at TN since Pat's last huge recruiting class that Holly inherited. The collective fan reaction to them was that however highly rated they were they 'just weren't winners' and thankfully they eventually graduated to be replaced by the next 'savior' recruits that were going to be winners unlike those underachieving graduates. And the beat continues to this day. Next years class is different, and if we can just get rid of some of the deadwood on the current team, everything will magically change, because the current players were so highly overrated as recruits but next years class is even better than their HS ratings.

Some of that is the eternal optimism of fans, but some of it is also willful blindness to the issue with something other than the current roster.

All that said ... coaches do have to be wary of accepting transfers that don't have sound reasons for transferring no matter how much talent they possess. And I am not sure DD would have been a transfer I would have welcomed to 'my team'. And she has certainly seemed to run hot and cold through her two years at TN.

 

[Volfan2012]

What is a proven fact that is not likely to change because Diamond has been playing for three years now. She is not a good shooter. She is an athlete but her shot is not consistent and she is a career 40 percent shooter. She is not getting better so when she takes 15 shots you hope she makes five or six. Some nights she makes only 4. At some point you have to admit who she is a talented athlete with limited shooting ability. She likes to shoot but she seldom comes out of any game with an efficiency you must have. Team shot 35 percent last night not a percentage that will win games.

 

[madtownvol]

I agree that when every year fans are blaming specific players, or even groups of players or the whole team, they are being myopic - the problem is not with the player but with the coach who is enabling the sequence of players being blamed.

That has been the habit at TN since Pat's last huge recruiting class that Holly inherited. The collective fan reaction to them was that however highly rated they were they 'just weren't winners' and thankfully they eventually graduated to be replaced by the next 'savior' recruits that were going to be winners unlike those underachieving graduates. And the beat continues to this day. Next years class is different, and if we can just get rid of some of the deadwood on the current team, everything will magically change, because the current players were so highly overrated as recruits but next years class is even better than their HS ratings.

Some of that is the eternal optimism of fans, but some of it is also willful blindness to the issue with something other than the current roster.

All that said ... coaches do have to be wary of accepting transfers that don't have sound reasons for transferring no matter how much talent they possess. And I am not sure DD would have been a transfer I would have welcomed to 'my team'. And she has certainly seemed to run hot and cold through her two years at TN.

That has been the pattern but it predates Holly and goes back to the baby class that followed CP3 and the gang.


Stricklen, Glory Johnson, Ariel Massengale, Jasmine Jones among others have the been the "reasons" are not competing for final fours. Now, everyone dumps on Diamond but not for example Middleton who killed the team last night by lousy defense, missing open shots, and forcing up off balance ones that are way beyond her capabilities.

The buck stops with the coach period full stop. If a player is creating problems for team chemistry (and in no way am I suggesting that is the case for this team), it is on the coaching staff to solve the problem.


However, whatever is hampering this team has be to traced to the practices, preparation, and the offensive schemes that are being run.

After the MSU loss, every internet coach on this board were all over Holly for obvious mistakes that cost us the game. These were not using timeouts when the MSU went on a run and not playing Middleton more. Against Ole Miss, Holly did exactly those things and no change in results.

So, the reality is that Holly has really limited options (and those can be traced to injuries--Te'a--and the absence of a quality recruiting class). The latter one is on Holly.

But, this team did have a 13 point lead in the 3rd quarter and blew it by not scoring for over 4 minutes and not that much more afterwards. Many of Ole Miss's points came on fast breaks after the LVs missed wide open shots-- in those situations, poor shooting did effect the offense because these misses bounced in a way that set Ole Miss up perfectly for fast breaks (and they were the faster team).


Nared kept the team in the game with a monster first half but once she eventually cooled off, who was there to step up.

Mercedes stat line did not look bad but she really got dominated in the post. A 6-6 player having her shot blocked multiple times is really poor. Diamond went from being invisible in the 1st half to making some plays but her poor shooting again kept the LVs from being able to make the necessary separation.

And after those three what do the LVs have. Jordan is a solid player but she can't carry the scoring load except for the random game where she finds the proverbial zone. Middleton struggles to match-up against more talented guards; and Meme is still a work in progress and is at least a year away from being an impact player (though I think she will get there).

So, it is up to Holly to figure out a way to get more out of what she has but, when we are honest about it, there is not an easy solution.

This team will likely be very up and down. Some nights they will shoot well above their average and win; some nights two of the three big three will have great nights and that usually translates into a win and then there will be games like the last two.

The season now hangs on which of this alternatives occur more than the other over the remaining games.

 

[Amb3096]

So, it is up to Holly to figure out a way to get more out of what she has but, when we are honest about it, there is not an easy solution.

She's had over a year. And the team is actually worse than last year's edition.

Regarding the issues with Shekinna's class, Tennessee was still a contender during those years, and had some bad luck in the tournament (i.e. Griner's freshman year, the emergence of ND). "Bad losses" where when they would lose to a team ranked 10-15 like Georgetown. Now, that's considered a great loss and all of a sudden teams like Troy and James Madison are being lauded as "really tough teams" when Shekinna's class would dismiss them like they were an afterthought.

They went from an elite team during Pat's last two good years before her illness clearly affected the team (which as I understand, Holly spent most of the season acting as head coach anyway) to a top tier team but one who was beatable on any given day against a confident team, to an unranked, middle-of-the-pack SEC team.

Holly has completely lost control of the team, and it won't get better next year because the same captain is still at the helm. I don't expect that she will be replaced anytime soon, and I also don't expect Tennessee to be a top 10 team again as long as she is the head coach.

 

[madtownvol]

She's had over a year. And the team is actually worse than last year's edition.

Regarding the issues with Shekinna's class, Tennessee was still a contender during those years, and had some bad luck in the tournament (i.e. Griner's freshman year, the emergence of ND). "Bad losses" where when they would lose to a team ranked 10-15 like Georgetown. Now, that's considered a great loss and all of a sudden teams like Troy and James Madison are being lauded as "really tough teams" when Shekinna's class would dismiss them like they were an afterthought.

They went from an elite team during Pat's last two good years before her illness clearly affected the team (which as I understand, Holly spent most of the season acting as head coach anyway) to a top tier team but one who was beatable on any given day against a confident team, to an unranked, middle-of-the-pack SEC team.

Holly has completely lost control of the team, and it won't get better next year because the same captain is still at the helm. I don't expect that she will be replaced anytime soon, and I also don't expect Tennessee to be a top 10 team again as long as she is the head coach.

It is interesting that you team's decline (i.e. not making final fours) with Glory and Shekinna teams as bad "luck" as though getting passed by Baylor and ND was just a case of bad dice roll. The issues we have with Holly; inconsistency; poor shooting; poor offensive execution; defensive breakdowns; slow starts, all plagued that team as well.


I don't think Holly has lost control of the team or else we would not have seen the bounce back from the Baylor and Texas losses. I think they are still playing hard for Holly but may not know what do or are not capable.

This years team is down Graves (a quality college player); Cooper (who came on as a difference maker toward the end of last season); and Carter (though hampered she provided some depth. leadership, and defensive spark).

Prior to the ND last season, they had 4 losses versus 6 now, so technically they are worse but I actually think this year's team has a bigger upside. Nared and Russell are much improved; while Diamond remains an enigma, on the whole her game is better; Jackson and Middleton are better as well, though, they remain role players at best.

The formula for this team success this season, particularly after losing Cooper, is that Russell and DeShields needed to play at a consistently high level. That is not happening. This team needs the proverbial player who can take over the game when it comes to crunch time.

This is not an excuse for Holly because she has built this imbalanced team but it is the reality.

 

[Amb3096]

It is interesting that you team's decline (i.e. not making final fours) with Glory and Shekinna teams as bad "luck" as though getting passed by Baylor and ND was just a case of bad dice roll. The issues we have with Holly; inconsistency; poor shooting; poor offensive execution; defensive breakdowns; slow starts, all plagued that team as well.

I say this because those teams were clear #1 seeds. The team that lost to Baylor only had 2 losses during the regular season, to #2 Stanford and #8 Georgia. The following season they lost to #2 Baylor and (SHOCK!!!!) #12 Georgetown. They were an elite team. We all knew Griner was going to elevate Baylor, and Diggins did the same for ND. There's no shame in losing to those teams, because they were equally talented (if not more so).

The difference between Holly's team and those teams was that they took care of business against teams they were supposed to beat. Losing to unranked teams was unheard of. During Holly's tenure, you know that it's going to happen, and teams like Chattanooga start becoming big time competitors as opposed to doormats like they should be.

I don't think Holly has lost control of the team or else we would not have seen the bounce back from the Baylor and Texas losses. I think they are still playing hard for Holly but may not know what do or are not capable.

They beat 4 cupcakes and then #10 Stanford and #17 UK. Frankly, I expected them to beat both of those ranked teams because of how much more talented they were than both. Stanford has no experienced guards, and UK has to rely on walk-ons. Both of those teams have overachieved so far this season, so while on paper those are "big wins", they were games that should have been circled as wins when the season began anyway. They didn't even play particularly well in those games; just that Stanford/UK couldn't capitalize on making them pay the same way that the likes of PSU, VT or Ole Miss were able to.

This years team is down Graves (a quality college player); Cooper (who came on as a difference maker toward the end of last season); and Carter (though hampered she provided some depth. leadership, and defensive spark).

Graves was a big loss. Losing Cooper just made things worse, but she was a problem last year. She didn't play that well, and it's hard to say what she would have brought to the table. I still believe there's nothing that Carter could bring to the table that Jackson can't do with equal effectiveness.

Prior to the ND last season, they had 4 losses versus 6 now, so technically they are worse but I actually think this year's team has a bigger upside. Nared and Russell are much improved; while Diamond remains an enigma, on the whole her game is better; Jackson and Middleton are better as well, though, they remain role players at best.

Last year's team was preseason #4, a FF pick and was absolutely loaded. The difference between their potential and how they actually performed was like a mountain.

This year, it's the same problems as last year re: performance, with the difference being less bodies. They can play better than they have to date, but even firing on all cylinders, I don't think they are a top 10 team.

The formula for this team success this season, particularly after losing Cooper, is that Russell and DeShields needed to play at a consistently high level. That is not happening. This team needs the proverbial player who can take over the game when it comes to crunch time.

I would add Nared to that list as well, and even then that's not a guarantee to win. The PG and SG spots held them back and is continuing to hold them back this year. And sadly, we are realizing that Diamond is no Kelsey Mitchell, Jaime is no KLS, and Mercedes is no Aja Wilson. They are good, but not great players.

This is not an excuse for Holly because she has built this imbalanced team but it is the reality.

Agreed. She recruited and developed the team. She has a PG that has not improved in 4 years, a SG that is afraid to shoot, a wing that ended up being a "miss" despite being heralded as a "can't miss prospect", a talented wing playing out of position and looks out of place playing organized basketball, and a center with size that has been consistent but is slowly being worn down by Holly's inability to recruit or develop a bench.

 

[T.J.]

I agree that when every year fans are blaming specific players, or even groups of players or the whole team, they are being myopic - the problem is not with the player but with the coach who is enabling the sequence of players being blamed.

That has been the habit at TN since Pat's last huge recruiting class that Holly inherited. The collective fan reaction to them was that however highly rated they were they 'just weren't winners' and thankfully they eventually graduated to be replaced by the next 'savior' recruits that were going to be winners unlike those underachieving graduates. And the beat continues to this day. Next years class is different, and if we can just get rid of some of the deadwood on the current team, everything will magically change, because the current players were so highly overrated as recruits but next years class is even better than their HS ratings.

Some of that is the eternal optimism of fans, but some of it is also willful blindness to the issue with something other than the current roster.

All that said ... coaches do have to be wary of accepting transfers that don't have sound reasons for transferring no matter how much talent they possess. And I am not sure DD would have been a transfer I would have welcomed to 'my team'. And she has certainly seemed to run hot and cold through her two years at TN.

Post of the Day!:clapping:

Unless someone else comes up with something better by midnight.

 

[Ed Weeks]

Does anybody care about winning? Here's a recipe...

How have Connecticut Huskies sustained their success?

 

[Nute Gunray]

It is interesting that you team's decline (i.e. not making final fours) with Glory and Shekinna teams as bad "luck" as though getting passed by Baylor and ND was just a case of bad dice roll. The issues we have with Holly; inconsistency; poor shooting; poor offensive execution; defensive breakdowns; slow starts, all plagued that team as well.


I don't think Holly has lost control of the team or else we would not have seen the bounce back from the Baylor and Texas losses. I think they are still playing hard for Holly but may not know what do or are not capable.

This years team is down Graves (a quality college player); Cooper (who came on as a difference maker toward the end of last season); and Carter (though hampered she provided some depth. leadership, and defensive spark).

Prior to the ND last season, they had 4 losses versus 6 now, so technically they are worse but I actually think this year's team has a bigger upside. Nared and Russell are much improved; while Diamond remains an enigma, on the whole her game is better; Jackson and Middleton are better as well, though, they remain role players at best.

The formula for this team success this season, particularly after losing Cooper, is that Russell and DeShields needed to play at a consistently high level. That is not happening. This team needs the proverbial player who can take over the game when it comes to crunch time.

This is not an excuse for Holly because she has built this imbalanced team but it is the reality.

Madtownvol, I agree with you as always, especially, "This team needs the proverbial player who can take over the game when it comes to crunch time.". Diamond should be that player but she is not. She was the leading freshmen scorer her first year at NC. She has played at a subpar level so long that she is unable to play any better. This is mostly her fault. She sought out head coaches that let her play her way, no matter what were the results. This is a tragedy. She could have been a first string AA.

 

[madtownvol]

Amb3096,

Your points are all well taken. I had thought the LVs had found their stride and fully expected them to be 4-0 or 3-1 at worse at this point in the SEC season.

I still hold out home that they will find a good run of form come tournament time but I concede that this hope is not necessarily a rationally based one.

 

[madtownvol]

Madtownvol, I agree with you as always, especially, "This team needs the proverbial player who can take over the game when it comes to crunch time.". Diamond should be that player but she is not. She was the leading freshmen scorer her first year at NC. She has played at a subpar level so long that she is unable to play any better. This is mostly her fault. She sought out head coaches that let her play her way, no matter what were the results. This is a tragedy. She could have been a first string AA.

Time will tell I suppose. I expect that Diamond, as well as Mercedes, will both move to the pros next year. Mercedes might gain from another college season but Diamond is clearly in a stagnant place. As competitive as the WNBA has become for slots, she will have to turn her game around pretty quickly to stay in the league.

 

[Nute Gunray]

Time will tell I suppose. I expect that Diamond, as well as Mercedes, will both move to the pros next year. Mercedes might gain from another college season but Diamond is clearly in a stagnant place. As competitive as the WNBA has become for slots, she will have to turn her game around pretty quickly to stay in the league.

Agree, 100%!

 

[Amb3096]

Amb3096,

Your points are all well taken. I had thought the LVs had found their stride and fully expected them to be 4-0 or 3-1 at worse at this point in the SEC season.

I still hold out home that they will find a good run of form come tournament time but I concede that this hope is not necessarily a rationally based one.

Last season, I thought they could turn it around and make the FF. I stayed invested in the team because I thought they were really talented and just needed that "moment". I don't know if I feel that same way about the team, and sadly, I'm starting to become less interested in investing emotionally in the team because I've pretty much written Holly off. It's a shame what she's done to the program, but like you said, maybe they'll have a decent tournament run to at least provide a glimmer of hope to the fans that continue to stay by their side.

 

[LVJeff]

..I think they are still playing hard for Holly...

There are player's who visibly do not hustle and at times jog leisurely down the court.

 

[LVJeff]

...Mercedes stat line did not look bad but she really got dominated in the post. A 6-6 player having her shot blocked multiple times is really poor...

MR is a steady player that isn't the problem. But she has limitations...She isn't mobile or agile around the basket. It was an interesting contrast with her and the MS big girl who couldn't run down court as easily as MR but was more nimble around the basket dribbling, pivoting, and scoring a couple times with MR unable to stop her (and me screaming for a guard to step in and force her to pick up her dribble). It would be nice if MR was more agile around the basket, but she isn't.

 

[Amb3096]

MR is a steady player that isn't the problem. But she has limitations...She isn't mobile or agile around the basket. It was an interesting contrast with her and the MS big girl who couldn't run down court as easily as MR but was more nimble around the basket dribbling, pivoting, and scoring a couple times with MR unable to stop her (and me screaming for a guard to step in and force her to pick up her dribble). It would be nice if MR was more agile around the basket, but she isn't.

Not just that, but on the other end of the court, I envision that MR had a hard time establishing position. The two big posts probably each outweighed her by 50 pounds. They were huge. MR picked up to offensive fouls trying to force her way through them, but given their bulk and that they were both pretty tall, that was a tough physical matchup for MR.

The starting big girl impressed me with the array of post moves and her face up game. She played very well.

 

[teacherdean]

I see we're back to blaming Diamond...

I hope she goes to the WBNA this season. As the season progresses, she will probably realize she made the biggest mistake of her life transferring to play for Holly, so will cut her losses.

Who to blame next year...My money's on Jaime and Te'a. Anastasia and Evina can be blamed the following season...

I agree 100%. Holly is over her head. When she says she does not know what to do accept the fact that she is clueless. We have got to quit blaming this train wreak on individual players. Just who is in control, the players or the head coach? I coached in high school for many years and I accepted the blame for the way my girls played. It was my job to correct attitudes and mistakes. AD's never gave me a way out because my teams were under preforming, it was on me and I accepted that responsibility. I reviewed films and looked for mistakes and analyzed with my assistant coaches on how to improve mistakes. We spent a lot of time going over film with our players. I even resorted to seeking advise from fellow head coaches. I never allowed one player to be bigger than the game.

Holly is the engineer of this train and no matter if she likes it or not the buck begins and stops at her desk.

 

[madtownvol]

I agree 100%. Holly is over her head. When she says she does not know what to do accept the fact that she is clueless. We have got to quit blaming this train wreak on individual players. Just who is in control, the players or the head coach? I coached in high school for many years and I accepted the blame for they way my girls played. It was my job to correct attitudes and mistakes. AD's never gave me a way out because my teams were under preforming, it was on me and I accepted that responsibility. I reviewed films and looked for mistakes and analyzed with my assistant coaches on how to improve mistakes. We spent a lot of time going over film with our players. I even resorted to seeking advise from fellow head coaches. I never allowed one player to be bigger than the game.

Holly is the engineer of this train and no matter if she likes it or not the buck begins and stops at her desk.

Well, don't you think Holly is doing all of those things? Surely, you are not implying that she does not watch film or talk with her assistants.

I don't think the issue lies in standard coaching tactics but the intangibles that make one coach more successful than another. I am sure if you tracked what Geno A. or Kim Mulkey, or Pat Summitt in her prime, actually do on a daily basis, the routine would not look that different from Holly's. I mean, Holly knows all of Pat's routines and tricks.

But, somehow these other coaches do it all much better and more effectively than Holly. Perhaps its personality (as coach Jumper emphasizes); perhaps it's just a certain level of strategic acumen; perhaps it is the way she manages and motivates (or fails to) players or some combination of the above.

And it gets really tricky because sometimes it can be the interaction between coach and setting. Why was Gail G. a success at Duke and a flop at Texas; how did Carolyn Peck win an NC at Purdue and fail at Florida?