Wowo

#4
#4
Why take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens? People who intend to do harm will always be able to get their hands on firearms. Therefore, they will always hold a comparitive advantage over the unarmed people who try to prevent them from carrying out their violent acts. If you level the playing field, you might not always deter the criminal, however, you give the "good side" the means to thwart the act.

Firearms are neither good nor evil. They are simply tools. When the purpose is destruction, they are extremely effective. When the purpose is protection, they are extremely effective.
 
#5
#5
but were talking about protection against 4-18yr olds, surely there are more effective modes of prevention. I know where I went to HS there were three incidents of a gun in school, none of them resulting in a shooting, though they might have if they were met with guns. We're talking about kids here, and if for no other reason then that they dont react rationally, this is a horrible idea.
 
#6
#6
We are talking about protection from armed persons of every age rage. The incidents of the past week and a half were not teenagers, they were middle aged men.

Further, the most effective way to keep an armed 16 year old intent on massacring classmates is to meet armed force with armed force.
 
#7
#7
Sorry, but I don't think that the solution to keeping guns out of schools is to add more guns.
 
#8
#8
The problem is not guns in school. The problem is people killing others with guns, and it happens to be ocurring in schools.
 
#9
#9
do i need to ask the obvious question?

what happens when a teacher goes nuts and shoots somebody?

do we arm the students then?
 
#10
#10
therealUT said:
The problem is not guns in school. The problem is people killing others with guns, and it happens to be ocurring in schools.
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It happens to be occuring everywhere. What's next? Every person in the world is allowed to carry a gun on their hip?

When you look at how many schools are actually in this country, it's really not that big of a dilemma. It's kind of like a plane crash, it's horrible when it happens, but it just doesn't happen a lot.

Why not just actually give the schools some money so they can provide sufficient security to keep the guns out of the school?
 
#11
#11
Yes, a teacher might go nuts. The SROs at schools may go nuts. I expect more from you Emain.
 
#12
#12
OWB said:
It happens to be occuring everywhere.
Why not just actually give the schools some money so they can provide sufficient security to keep the guns out of the school?
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You weren't listening to Ed Rendell - you can't have enough security - if someone wants to take out the President and is willing to die, he's going to get a shot off (Freudian slip perhaps? or did he just see that movie :w00t: )
 
#13
#13
OWB said:
It happens to be occuring everywhere. What's next? Every person in the world is allowed to carry a gun on their hip?

When you look at how many schools are actually in this country, it's really not that big of a dilemma. It's kind of like a plane crash, it's horrible when it happens, but it just doesn't happen a lot.

Why not just actually give the schools some money so they can provide sufficient security to keep the guns out of the school?
Click to expand...
I have no problem allowing everyone in the world to carry a gun on their hip. Something about "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed," which I am sure I have read somewhere.

The cost of installing and staffing metal detectors at every entrance to every school is much more costly and much less efficient than the cost of purchasing a hand gun for each teacher.
 
#14
#14
therealUT said:
Yes, a teacher might go nuts. The SROs at schools may go nuts. I expect more from you Emain.
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i honestly think its a valid question. but i guess the more important question is how many teachers will actually carry guns? i can see a large number having a problem with it.
 
#15
#15
emainvol said:
i honestly think its a valid question. but i guess the more important question is how many teachers will actually carry guns? i can see a large number having a problem with it.
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You can easily legislate that teachers that want to carry a gun must enroll themselves in a firearms safety class and subject themselves to a psych eval.
 
#17
#17
therealUT said:
I have no problem allowing everyone in the world to carry a gun on their hip. Something about "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed," which I am sure I have read somewhere.

The cost of installing and staffing metal detectors at every entrance to every school is much more costly and much less efficient than the cost of purchasing a hand gun for each teacher.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to infringe on anyone's right to bear arms. I just think that putting guns in the teacher's hands is a careless approach that just adds to the problem.

Not every teacher would be able to stop a student from wrestling the gun away from them. Do you not think that a teen boy could sneak up on an old lady (like LIO) at the chalkboard and take the gun and shoot her and others?
 
#18
#18
therealUT said:
You can easily legislate that teachers that want to carry a gun must enroll themselves in a firearms safety class and subject themselves to a psych eval.
Click to expand...

it's certainly a step that must be taken if this is to be implimented. here is another problem i have, if a teacher uses a weapon, what then? i can see a lot of problems arising from this situation. even if the action is warranted, it is still an authority figure using force on a youth.
 
#22
#22
therealUT said:
You can easily legislate that teachers that want to carry a gun must enroll themselves in a firearms safety class and subject themselves to a psych eval.
Click to expand...

So in a society where we put law enforcement through intense traning both in psychology and fire arms, we want to subject teachers to the same thing? You expect people who deal with teenagers on a constant basis to be focused enough to handle this situation if it arises? And if a nut is in school with a gun and thinks a teacher is armed, he will shoot first and ask questions later in the psychology of self-preservation.

We have specially trained people in society to handle these situations and many cannot even handle this. Now we want to arm teachers?
 
#23
#23
CSpindizzy said:
So in a society where we put law enforcement through intense traning both in psychology and fire arms, we want to subject teachers to the same thing? You expect people who deal with teenagers on a constant basis to be focused enough to handle this situation if it arises? And if a nut is in school with a gun and thinks a teacher is armed, he will shoot first and ask questions later in the psychology of self-preservation.

We have specially trained people in society to handle these situations and many cannot even handle this. Now we want to arm teachers?
Click to expand...
Because right now these 'nuts' are not shooting first...

We do have specially trained persons in society to handle these situations...they have a response time of at least 3 minutes. Once they arrive on the scene, then they must evaluate the situation, from the outside, come up with a plan, usually they try to establish contact with the murderers inside. By the time action is taken, two armed teens could easily have killed 25-100 of their peers.

Also, when it comes to the self-preservation, with only 1 or 2 SROs in a given school, 2 teens could take them out first, and have complete freedom of movement for at least 30 minutes. If all teachers are armed, then you might lose 1 or 2. After that, the rest of the armed teachers would have the power to put an end to the situation.
 
#24
#24
If you feel confident enough in arming teachers, more power to you. If the pressure is high enough for trained professionals who go through extra intense training, I'd say that adding this to someone who already gets paid crap and goes through enough is asking for even more problems. What's to stop two or three people from jumping a teacher, taking their gun, and then going on a shooting spree, holding hostages, or just running out with possession of a loaded firearm?

You'd then give someone with no previous access to a gun the ability to overpower a teacher to take one and use to their advantage. Good method of helping unarmed teens become armed all in a matter of seconds.
 
#25
#25
CSpindizzy said:
If you feel confident enough in arming teachers, more power to you. If the pressure is high enough for trained professionals who go through extra intense training, I'd say that adding this to someone who already gets paid crap and goes through enough is asking for even more problems. What's to stop two or three people from jumping a teacher, taking their gun, and then going on a shooting spree, holding hostages, or just running out with possession of a loaded firearm?

You'd then give someone with no previous access to a gun the ability to overpower a teacher to take one and use to their advantage. Good method of helping unarmed teens become armed all in a matter of seconds.
Click to expand...
That there would be more than 1 or 2 armed teachers! What is stopping these kids from jumping their SROs? Look at the police officers and sheriff's deputies outside of major metropolitan areas. Most of these armed officials have not attained their jobs because they are the most qualified and most competent, they have been given jobs due to small town politics. So, yes, I feel that there are many teachers that I feel more comfortable with guns than I do with many SROs.
 
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