Wowo

#26
#26
security is only as good as the people conducting it {cops,gaurds, teachers, whomever} the one problem i see with it is if the sh#$ hits the fan and a tactical entry has to be made I don't want to shoot a teacher or better yet have one shoot me!
 
#27
#27
THAT is always a great situation to walk into. You have students with guns, numerous teachers with guns, law enforcement with guns....all in a tense, fast paced environment. Sounds like a stable situation in the making to me.
 
#28
#28
I understand your point, completely Crimedawg. And, as you know, in most of the countries our military is currently operating within, possession of firearms is incredibly common. I feel that if 18 year old privates can effectively deal with it, then veteran police officers should be capable of doing the same. The solution is not perfect, however, you can't keep from implementing solutions purely because they are not perfect, or else you will never reduce problems.
 
#29
#29
CSpindizzy said:
THAT is always a great situation to walk into. You have students with guns, numerous teachers with guns, law enforcement with guns....all in a tense, fast paced environment. Sounds like a stable situation in the making to me.
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Sounds like a situation that E-1s and E-2s face in MOUT training and MOUT operations everyday.
 
#31
#31
There is a difference between a few gun courses in spare time and intense training of an infantryman. Perhaps we should send all teachers through Sand Hill?
 
#32
#32
therealUT said:
I feel that if 18 year old privates can effectively deal with it, then veteran police officers should be capable of doing the same.
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Veteran police officers? You were just talking about arming teachers here....:blink:
 
#33
#33
CSpindizzy said:
There is a difference between a few gun courses in spare time and intense training of an infantryman. Perhaps we should send all teachers through Sand Hill?
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Well, perhaps local police precincts should dedicate more time to training. Infantry privates get 16 weeks of basic and AIT. Police Academies are shorter than 16 weeks?
 
#34
#34
CSpindizzy said:
Veteran police officers? You were just talking about arming teachers here....:blink:
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The armed teachers are not going to be making a tactical entrance. Arming the teachers would be to prevent that situation from arising.
 
#36
#36
the level of shoot or don't shoot goes way up in this scenario! its not hard to pick out the bad guys when they are the only ones shooting! i'm not disagreeing with you, its just some of the things that came to mind when i read this post. as you know special ops is a mindset as much as anything! i'm not sure teachers have the time nor are willing to prepare themselves for such a situation.
 
#37
#37
crimedawg12 said:
security is only as good as the people conducting it {cops,gaurds, teachers, whomever} the one problem i see with it is if the sh#$ hits the fan and a tactical entry has to be made I don't want to shoot a teacher or better yet have one shoot me!
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Amen brother!
 
#38
#38
crimedawg12 said:
the level of shoot or don't shoot goes way up in this scenario! its not hard to pick out the bad guys when they are the only ones shooting! i'm not disagreeing with you, its just some of the things that came to mind when i read this post. as you know special ops is a mindset as much as anything! i'm not sure teachers have the time nor are willing to prepare themselves for such a situation.
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Amen again brother!
 
#39
#39
crimedawg12 said:
the level of shoot or don't shoot goes way up in this scenario! its not hard to pick out the bad guys when they are the only ones shooting! i'm not disagreeing with you, its just some of the things that came to mind when i read this post. as you know special ops is a mindset as much as anything! i'm not sure teachers have the time nor are willing to prepare themselves for such a situation.
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I agree, it makes it tougher for police to make their tactical entrance. However, I feel that the prevention factor would be astronomical.

Also, to say that the people who commit these actions are not thinking rational is ridiculous. Most of the time, these shootings are very well planned and pre-meditated. The Columbine shooters were even working off of a timeline they had prepared. I believe their plans would have changed drastically had there been even 10 armed teachers in that high school.
 
#40
#40
I believe their plans would have changed drastically had there been even 10 armed teachers in that high school.
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First, you would have to have teachers who would actually want to do that and actually train/qualify to use a weapon and keep certification.

Second, would it be a deterrent? Or would it just be teachers becoming the "main" target of violence.

Third, not to sound like a terrible human being, but in the overall grand scheme of things, is it that big of a priority?

Fourth, if you really want change, start at the family level and parental responsibility.
 
#41
#41
OrangeEmpire said:
First, you would have to have teachers who would actually want to do that and actually train/qualify to use a weapon and keep certification.

Second, would it be a deterrent? Or would it just be teachers becoming the "main" target of violence.

Third, not to sound like a terrible human being, but in the overall grand scheme of things, is it that big of a priority?

Fourth, if you really want change, start at the family level and parental responsibility.
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I agree with everything you say here, let me explain further though.

1. I have stated earlier in here that it should be for teachers that wish to pursue it. Then they need to volunteer themselves to complete a firearms safety course, and frequent refreshers, and submit themselves to a psych eval.

2. Making teachers the main target of the violence is better than making the kids the target, IMO. Teachers choose to be teachers. Under current laws, kids have no choice but to attend school until they are anywhere between 16 and 18, state dependent.

3. It is not a huge priority, but it is something that can be tempered.

4. I would state that the breakdown of the family unit is responsible for many of the societal defects that are turning up today. However, the government cannot parent. Therefore, you must allow citizens to protect themselves against those who wish harm upon them.
 
#42
#42
Tough issue, so do we give teachers a pay raise for carrying a weapon?

Would it be a bargaining chip for their union?

Would it be cheaper to hire police/security?
 
#43
#43
I guess in addtion to educating kids they should now become the caretakers and militia of the kids as well.
 
#45
#45
OWB said:
And all the while, get paid little to nothing.
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If they wanted to be paid more they would not have become teachers. I look forward to teaching once I reach my 20 in the Army, however, I will not be doing it for the pay.
 
#46
#46
therealUT said:
If they wanted to be paid more they would not have become teachers. I look forward to teaching once I reach my 20 in the Army, however, I will not be doing it for the pay.
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That's true. I think people are finally starting to figure that out too. People wanting to be teachers is on the decline.
 
#47
#47
OWB said:
That's true. I think people are finally starting to figure that out too. People wanting to be teachers is on the decline.
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I think it will swing back up as many states are implementing procedures to allow persons without an education degree to teach. This allows retired professionals, who are living off of pensions, to come in to schools and give back to the community, without the need for high salaries.
 
#48
#48
10 myths about school shootings - Crime & Punishment - MSNBC.com

Myths about School Shootings.

Myth No. 10. “School violence is rampant.”
It may seem so, with media attention focused on a spate of school shootings. In fact, school shootings are extremely rare. Even including the more common violence that is gang-related or dispute-related, only 12 to 20 homicides a year occur in the 100,000 schools in the U.S. In general, school assaults and other violence have dropped by nearly half in the past decade.
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