You can try and blame the refs...

#126
#126
TNVOLFN said:
Bellyaching about the refs is weak minded. They beat us, straight, in damn near every stat that matters. We shot a higher FG %, but that’s only because DK made a few toward the end. THIS is exactly how we’ll get beat in March, 2 points from JJJ and 2 points from Ziegler, and 8 points off the bench, absolutely terrible.
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Or we play a team with a decent big man. One of these two things will doom us at some point in the tournament.
 
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#128
#128
TNVOLFN said:
Bellyaching about the refs is weak minded. They beat us, straight, in damn near every stat that matters. We shot a higher FG %, but that’s only because DK made a few toward the end. THIS is exactly how we’ll get beat in March, 2 points from JJJ and 2 points from Ziegler, and 8 points off the bench, absolutely terrible.
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This is always funny to me. Do you prefer to bend over and take it? That makes you stronger?

I swear some of our fans would rather defend the refs than Barnes.
 
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#129
#129
The officials definitely cost us this game and has in others...for all those saying it didn't if you ever have been apart of recieving bad calls while playing it effects all aspects cause essentially waiting for a whistle...going for the bunnies but have to body up the defender. Your focus waivers for a moment and you miss and start looking for a whistle...it doesnt mean your mentally either.
 
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#130
#130
sami said:
Yeah, I get Barnes' desire to play small ball at that point in the game to shake things up and make something happen, but as soon as it was clear that SC was going to take advantage of that size mismatch, Aidoo needed to be put in the game.

I thought that Barnes panicked a bit in the second half and went away from the ball movement and P&R actions that were working well early except for the inexplicable amount of missed open layups, and settled for DK iso's and the long contested shots, with everyone else standing around. The UT offense resembled the worst of previous years' offenses in the second half except for DK's heroics. I'd have preferred he stuck to the ball movement offense, figuring the easy looks would start to drop.

As you said, two things that have been issues even in recent wins have been the erratic FT shooting and awful defensive rebounding, both of which affect energy and moral, as anyone who has played the game knows. There aren't many things worse than a great defensive stop ruined by giving up an easy second chance bucket. Those will eventually take their toll, and they did.
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Overall the offensive rebounds given up weren’t horrible. IIRC it was 8 for USCjr and 6 for UT. But some of the timing was devastating. Play 30 seconds of great defense only to lose the rebound and have to do it again. It was just a forgettable night. Time to put it behind us, hope to steal one at Rupp, and absolutely not give up another game to LSU next Wednesday.
 
#131
#131
Jdw2920 said:
Dk missing 3/4 free throws late hurt for sure. The pair he missed definitely hurt but we sucked at rebounding and not stopping the kickout 3. You don’t win games missing layups from 7-8 year old basketball up to nba. Seemed like when we got a bad shot by them we just watched them out hustle us and give them another 2-3 shots
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At one point in the first half, TN would have been up by 20 had they made their bunnies and NOT given USCjr easy looks at the rim.
 
#132
#132
Vol_in_NC_1999 said:
SC was the better team last night. They came out ready to play. Congrats to your team! The difference between "Sweet 16" teams and "Final Four" teams is the ones who can have an "off" day like last night, miss some layups and free throws, and still find a way to win. Vols need to figure out a way to plug that hole, or they won't be a final four team.
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It kills me to lose but we know how this will end. The reason I don't get too upset about it. You don't need to lose at home but we looked bad. No energy on defense and too many missed layups, bunny shots, and free throws.
 
#135
#135
Thunder Good-Oil said:
At one point in the first half, TN would have been up by 20 had they made their bunnies and NOT given USCjr easy looks at the rim.
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Exactly, which is why I didn't get the panic and reliance on DK iso's in the second half. The open looks were there, stay the course and count on those layups evening out. This is a veteran team that should not get rattled at this point, something Barnes has to hammer home.
 
#136
#136
sami said:
Exactly, which is why I didn't get the panic and reliance on DK iso's in the second half. The open looks were there, stay the course and count on those layups evening out. This is a veteran team that should not get rattled at this point, something Barnes has to hammer home.
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The other players weren’t finishing and Knecht finally did. Again.

I think that the original plan was to balance the scoring but the players didn’t come through. If the towel had been thrown in a couple of possessions earlier, the all Knecht approach probably steals the win.
 
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#137
#137
volsarelife1 said:
But missing 15 layups, 8 free throws, and getting outrebounded and out hustled is the reason.
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But, you have to admit, the officiating was pathetic. I know Pat Adams and he's a really great guy, but that was one of the worst officiated games I've ever seen. A defender gets slammed off his spot 4 times without a call as the offensive player forces his way to the basket and scores then follows it up shortly thereafter with 3 more body slams and the defensive player gets whistled for a foul. Then, right after that, the officials call two touch fouls on the perimeter within seconds of each other. Santi gets slammed to the floor by not one but two defenders on a drive to the hoop and no foul is called. Ridiculous! Had the game been officiated competently, the Vols would have won despite the poor shooting.
 
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#138
#138
ColinS said:
Coach Barnes needed to find a way to up the tempo and couldn't in that reguard he got outcoached. Like I said in another post. Coaches are like players. Sometime the opponents gets the better of them and they just don't push the right buttons. I'll be curious what he changes for the next matchuo with them.
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That is easier said than done especially when you consider that South Carolina has a very good defense. The opportunities were there on offense in a half court setting.
 
#139
#139
1Big_Orange_Fan said:
True, but JJJ was consistent with his season so far. Can't have Ziegler, JJJ, Mashack, and Gainey combine for 4 points. I think they were a combined 0-9 from 3-pt range too. That killed us. Give SC credit for disrupting our offense but it was just a bad game when you miss bunnies and free throws. USC didn't cause most of those misses.
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Carolina impacted Aidoo misses. He played soft against their bullies inside. Carolina was a big reason he fumbled so many passes in traffic and short armed shots at the rim. Heck, he could have dunked 2 or 3 of his misses. He wants no part of scoring through contact against physical bigs. We will run into a team in the tournament where aidoo will play scared and be pushed around and our season will be toast. If you play Tobe he has no length to score and Estrella is a big liability as a pick and roll defender. Barnes has something to do with that as he didn’t get him much experience with minutes. Aidoo is the key to how far this team advances in the tournament.
 
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#140
#140
volsarelife1 said:
But missing 15 layups, 8 free throws, and getting outrebounded and out hustled is the reason.
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I agree with you. But the start of the second half, there was some bad fouls called against the Vols. And the big guy for SC was like a bull in a china shop when he got the ball down low.
 
#141
#141
VolsLFC said:
This is always funny to me. Do you prefer to bend over and take it? That makes you stronger?

I swear some of our fans would rather defend the refs than Barnes.
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Wow, I never thought of it that way. Great point. The Vols played excellent last night and our bench was spectacular. Regardless of USC committing more fouls than UT, Vols had to play against the refs and the big bad South Carolina Gamecocks in our tiny little arena. We never stood a chance! How unfair!
 
#142
#142
rickyyrs said:
I agree with you. But the start of the second half, there was some bad fouls called against the Vols. And the big guy for SC was like a bull in a china shop when he got the ball down low.
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Completely agree regarding the officiating, but if UT makes 5-6 more layups and FT's it's a comfortable win, even with the hideous calls. This is one of those "burn the tape" kind of losses that you hope you got out of your system and are happy that it happened in January.
 
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#143
#143
Carlitovol said:
Exactly. We literally breathe on SC players and they literally call 3 fouls back to back. Big yahoo lowers his shoulder in the post and shoves our defender thru the baseline, and somehow it’s a foul on us. Ok sure.
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The practice of a player lowering his shoulder to keep pushing a defender backwards has completely gotten out of hand. The defender is allowed his space and any physical activity to dislodge him from that space is an offensive foul. This needs to be corrected by all the officiating at all levels.
 
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#145
#145
Does anyone know why the ref got in the face of the elderly couple sitting close to the floor last night ? Someone at the game said the ref went from talking to coach Barnes and went over and got in the face of what looked like an 80'ish year old lady. Then later a couple refs went over and talked to them calmly, and after that it looked like a couple of university employees went and talked to them.

???
 
#146
#146
TNVOLFN said:
Wow, I never thought of it that way. Great point. The Vols played excellent last night and our bench was spectacular. Regardless of USC committing more fouls than UT, Vols had to play against the refs and the big bad South Carolina Gamecocks in our tiny little arena. We never stood a chance! How unfair!
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The two aren't mutually exclusive. Both the Vols and refs had a nightmare last night. Also simply going by total foul count is so simple minded. Look at the Purdue game, for example. Total free throw count ended 48 (Purdue) to 30 (Tennessee). Refs made the discrepancy look a lot better in the second half. First half - I believe it was something like 26-4 (I cannot find the first half FT stats). The total foul count also doesn't indicate if it caused a key player to get in foul trouble and sit substantial minutes. Aidoo hardly played in the first half last night due to foul trouble. The total foul count also doesn't indicate if the style of play changes. Last night, it was anything goes in the first half. Second half, if someone barely touched someone it was a foul. Mack for USC could push on anyone down low without repercussions, and instead we would get called for a foul for trying to body him up. USC continued to get the ball to Mack down low, because hey if you can push your way to a layup without a foul then why not.

And again, refs didn't cost us the game - we did. But to act that they didn't impact the game is also simply not true.
 
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#147
#147
VolsLFC said:
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Both the Vols and refs had a nightmare last night. Also simply going by total foul count is so simple minded. Look at the Purdue game, for example. Total free throw count ended 48 (Purdue) to 30 (Tennessee). Refs made the discrepancy look a lot better in the second half. First half - I believe it was something like 26-4 (I cannot find the first half FT stats). The total foul count also doesn't indicate if it caused a key player to get in foul trouble and sit substantial minutes. Aidoo hardly played in the first half last night due to foul trouble. The total foul count also doesn't indicate if the style of play changes. Last night, it was anything goes in the first half. Second half, if someone barely touched someone it was a foul. Mack for USC could push on anyone down low without repercussions, and instead we would get called for a foul for trying to body him up. USC continued to get the ball to Mack down low, because hey if you can push your way to a layup without a foul then why not.

And again, refs didn't cost us the game - we did. But to act that they didn't impact the game is also simply not true.
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3 fouls on one possession was odd, yes, and Pat Adams‘s dust up with Barnes was awkward. That said, I get tired of hearing every losing fan base in the history of college basketball immediately blame the refs - that is truly simple minded. It’s cheap and unbecoming, but I guess fans have that luxury. It’s a victim mentality
 
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#149
#149
Redleg68 said:
The practice of a player lowering his shoulder to keep pushing a defender backwards has completely gotten out of hand. The defender is allowed his space and any physical activity to dislodge him from that space is an offensive foul. This needs to be corrected by all the officiating at all levels.
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It really does. If as an official, you subscribe to the theory that the defender is entitled to defend his spot on the floor, then an offensive player backing down with his shoulder, forearm, or butt is no less of a foul than if the defender tried to keep him out of that space in the same manner. The rules are written one way and enforced an entirely different way. Mashack played defense exactly the way the rules allow you to and say you should. And he was called for fouls on two straight possessions for doing it.
 
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#150
#150
The team may not play well, but if you don't blame the refs you aren't a true fan of your team. Any team. It's a time honored tradition, regardless of school or franchise. Refs stink, should be fired and banned from even watching another sporting event of any kind. That's the true spirit. :cool:
 
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