Zadroga 9/11 First Responders Bill

#1
JayVols

JayVols

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#1
This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. Tom Coburn wants the bill paid for with spending cuts and claimed no hearings had been held. The bill IS paid for. At first, it was paid for by closing a tax loophole on foreign industry operating in the US. Method of paying for the bill has been changed to taxing products made by companies that get US contracts outside standard international trade deals. Hearings WERE held in June. Colburn didn't attend despite being a member of that committee.
I obviously think this should get done. These guys tackled an unprecedented task when we needed them the most. This should not be a partisan issue, but in todays climate it has become one. This is not welfare. This is about taking care of our own people. The heroism displayed during that awful time was uniting. We all stood together then. Why do we stop now? This has zero impact on the deficit. The politicians hailed the patriotism of these responders time and time again, and now they stand in the way of helping them when they need our help. We, as a nation should answer the same call these individuals answered. Some things are above party and politics. IMO this one of those issues. They were there when we needed them the most. We owe them nothing less than the same.
 
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#3
#3
rmsmith said:
Why in the hell would anyone be against this?



9/11 First Responders Bill May Move Ahead This Week : The Two-Way : NPR
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Lobbyists told them to be against it. The Organization for Foreign Investment told them to be against it. The OFII lobbied against it in July, one month after the hearings, and claimed that there had been no hearings on the matter. The US Chamber of Commerce lobbied against it as well. The NY State Chamber has come out in favor. Could someone please explain to me why the US Chamber would/should be against this bill other than 'it is supported by the Democrats'?
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#4
#4
rmsmith said:
Why in the hell would anyone be against this?
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because it's $7bil we don't have? Plus we got Obamacare so couldn't they have just written in that thing? Wouldn't have hurt the cost estimate

not saying I am against it but I can see why some could be
 
#5
#5
utvolpj said:
because it's $7bil we don't have? Plus we got Obamacare so couldn't they have just written in that thing? Wouldn't have hurt the cost estimate

not saying I am against it but I can see why some could be
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True, but to just blindly be against it is like the elderly opposing obamacare and then whipping out their medicare card. Socialism is socialism, no matter how ya slice it.
 
#6
#6
utvolpj said:
because it's $7bil we don't have? Plus we got Obamacare so couldn't they have just written in that thing? Wouldn't have hurt the cost estimate

not saying I am against it but I can see why some could be
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It's paid for. Deficit neutral. Explained in the first post.
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#7
#7
JayVols said:
It's paid for. Deficit neutral. Explained in the first post.
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I understand but why can't that money go to pay off something else? We do have a few outstanding debts right now. Saying it's deficit neutral with our current situation is a little dishonest
 
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#8
#8
JayVols said:
It's paid for. Deficit neutral. Explained in the first post.
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Not disagreeing with you, but its hard to imagine anything being "paid" for anymore.
I am for helping these people anyway possible, they gave life and health to protect the same of strangers.

Get it passed (paid for or not). And repeal Obamacare to make sure.:)
 
#9
#9
utvolpj said:
I understand but why can't that money go to pay off something else? We do have a few outstanding debts right now. Saying it's budget neutral with our current situation is a little dishonest
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That money probably will not get allocated otherwise and the loophole will remain. I don't disagree in principle with you. OTOH, we have gone in the hole big time passing bills that are not paid for that pale in comparison in terms of morality IMO. I just think that sometimes you just have to do what's right to have any sense of morality.
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#10
#10
BeecherVol said:
Not disagreeing with you, but its hard to imagine anything being "paid" for anymore.
I am for helping these people anyway possible, they gave life and health to protect the same of strangers.

Get it passed (paid for or not). And repeal Obamacare to make sure.:)
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I hear you. I do not like Obamacare in its present form. There are certain parts that are good, but it turned out to be a health insurance subsidy. You have to understand where I an coming from on that idea. Have a debilitating disease. I am lucky to have insurance but I am stuck with what I have. But that's for another debate....

As to the issue at hand, I share your sentiments: get it done!
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#11
#11
I haven't looked at it in depth but where is the money going? Who's making the decisions? Who is covered? I understand the need to help those who risked their lives to help save lives but are they not covered already? And are those people who came in weeks later getting the same coverage as the ones who ran into burning buildings?

Just too many questions for me to support it on principle alone.
 
#12
#12
JayVols said:
I hear you. I do not like Obamacare in its present form. There are certain parts that are good, but it turned out to be a health insurance subsidy. You have to understand where I an coming from on that idea. Have a debilitating disease. I am lucky to have insurance but I am stuck with what I have. But that's for another debate....

As to the issue at hand, I share your sentiments: get it done!
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In a sense its a similar debate. From reading pj's comments I see where it needs to be transparent on what will go to who....

There are some things that could be done better with healthcare, but Im not sure that is really behind the current bill. When that happens the bad typically out weighs the good in the long run.
 
#14
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utvolpj said:
I haven't looked at it in depth but where is the money going? Who's making the decisions? Who is covered? I understand the need to help those who risked their lives to help save lives but are they not covered already? And are those people who came in weeks later getting the same coverage as the ones who ran into burning buildings?

Just too many questions for me to support it on principle alone.
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H.R. 847: James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010 - Legislative Digest - GOP.gov

More info. Should there be a difference? The toxins present were still kicked up months after the initial attack. Had to be cleaned up regardless. Bodies were recovered months after the attack. I wouldn't differentiate between the actual first responders or the clean up guys.
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#15
#15
JayVols said:
H.R. 847: James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010 - Legislative Digest - GOP.gov

More info. Should there be a difference? The toxins present were still kicked up months after the initial attack. Had to be cleaned up regardless. Bodies were recovered months after the attack. I wouldn't differentiate between the actual first responders or the clean up guys.
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thanks I may read at work tomorrow

and there is a difference when you're throwing out the hero label to sell the bill
 
#16
#16
joevol320 said:
everything is deficit neutral. oblabla is deficit neutral.:lolabove:
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I guess this bill is an abomination as well just because a Democrat sponsored it. Do you EVER take that corn cob out of your butt or are you always a self-centered jackwagon?
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#17
#17
utvolpj said:
thanks I may read at work tomorrow

and there is a difference when you're throwing out the hero label to sell the bill
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No problem.
I feel that all the guys are heroes in this matter, but that's just me. Happy readings.
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#19
#19
GOP Xmas list:

[ ] Do the obviously right thing and help end some human suffering amongst those that confronted an horrific tragedy for us.

[X] Prevent Obama from having a small victory because that's what we were elected to do.
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#20
#20
JayVols said:
I guess this bill is an abomination as well just because a Democrat sponsored it. Do you EVER take that corn cob out of your butt or are you always a self-centered jackwagon?
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really sheep? everything that fools says is deficit neutral even though none of his claims are accurate.
 
#21
#21
joevol320 said:
really sheep? everything that fools says is deficit neutral even though none of his claims are accurate.
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The argument that this $7 billion cannot be spent because the funding is not agreed to is simply not going to go over well with the voters. Its a mistake for the GOP to be so obstinate on this.
 
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lawgator1 said:
The argument that this $7 billion cannot be spent because the funding is not agreed to is simply not going to go over well with the voters. Its a mistake for the GOP to be so obstinate on this.
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where did they come up with 7 billion? why not 20 or 30 billion?

who's getting the money? the 1st responders or everyone that was involved in the cleanup.
 
#23
#23
joevol320 said:
where did they come up with 7 billion? why not 20 or 30 billion?

who's getting the money? the 1st responders or everyone that was involved in the cleanup.
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The closet communists are getting the money. It's part of their ploy to overthrow the structure of the United States.
 
#24
#24
JayVols said:
H.R. 847: James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010 - Legislative Digest - GOP.gov
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so from the link we've already spent $587mil on this. Also the following already receive federal funding for this issue

Those programs include: Fire Department of New York WTC Medical Monitoring Program, New York/New Jersey WTC Consortium, WTC Health Registry, WTC Federal Responder Screening Program, Project COPE, and POPPA (Police Organization Providing Peer Assistance) program.
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ever known Congress to leave money on the table?

H.R. 847 caps the VCF at $8.4 billion, which is an invitation and a guarantee to spend $8.4 billion.
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looks like anyone who was even nearby will be eligible (including residents)

initial health evaluation, monitoring, and treatment benefits to residents and other building occupants and area workers who were directly impacted and adversely affected by such attacks.
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couple other things

Changes in eligibility include: (1) time present at site, (2) expansion of the geographic definition related to the location of the attacks, (3) an extended claims filing timeline, and (4) ability to be compensated by the VCF even if the claimant has already been compensated by the taxpayer-funded WTC Captive Insurance Company.
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#4 is a little troubling to me since we've already paid

Through 2004, the VCF made 2,880 death and 2,680 injury awards, which totaled more than $7 billion (about $6 billion was for death awards).
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It pretty much allows a double-dip while the rest widen the criteria for who was affected

I understand the need but it just sounds like another entitlement program with a tear-jerker of a title
 
#25
#25
utvolpj said:
so from the link we've already spent $587mil on this. Also the following already receive federal funding for this issue



ever known Congress to leave money on the table?



looks like anyone who was even nearby will be eligible (including residents)



couple other things



#4 is a little troubling to me since we've already paid



It pretty much allows a double-dip while the rest widen the criteria for who was affected

I understand the need but it just sounds like another entitlement program with a tear-jerker of a title
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that's exactly what it is. no bill is what it seems when libs introduce it.
 
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