Alls Quiet On The Coaching Job Front

#54
#54
Tux said:
It has been two days and all is quiet. Dave Hart even went to the Knoxville Zoo today.

What does that mean? Is it just a pressure release? Is it to throw the Knoxville media off? Is he thinking about things?

My thoughts are this…….

Dave Hart has someone working with him doing some footwork and legalese. Hart checked in on a Tim Miles/McDermott package deal (Doug McDermott's father). Miles wants to stay in the midwest. That does not mean that he was offered the job.

My feelings are that Hart knows who he wants and has some legal types and accounting types working up some numbers and contract initiatives. I don;t believe he would be waiting around to sign a tier three guy like Tyndall. I think that Hart os going after a big fish. He has an opportunity to really create a real legacy at Tennessee if he can land both a football coach who can turn things around and a top basketball coach, who can build a championship basketball team. I don;t think he is waiting on a Kmart blue light special coach. he could have had one of them already. He is swinging for the fences right now and that takes time.

I would mot be surprised of he landed a tier 1 coach and in a worst case scenario, he lands a tier 2 coach.

Tier 1
Gregg Marshall
Shaka Smart
Ben Howland
Jamie Dixon
Tom Crean

Tier 2
Mick Cronin
Chris Mack
Tubby Smith
Scott Drew
Dan Dakich
Jim Crews


Tier 3
Kurtis Townsend
Dane Fife
Michael White
John Pelphry
Richard Pitino
Archie Miller
Donnie Tyndall
Rick Byrd
Kermit Davis
Wade from UTC
Click to expand...

It will be a coach from your Tier 3 list.
 
#55
#55
zehr27 said:
It will be a coach from your Tier 3 list.
Click to expand...

I agree and it will be an upgrade, imo.

Some of those names are not third tier candidates.

I would be thrilled if White was announced our new coach today.
 
#56
#56
Rick Byrd or Ben Howland are the two best candidates that are going to be available to us. There may be other coaches that we can argue over, but we have to look at the best in the available pool. I think it will be Byrd or Howland. Both have great track records and both would bring Tennessee Basketball to the front faster than many other coaches that we might want. Either one would be great hires for Tennessee!!! Just one man's opinion!
 
#57
#57
bamacheats said:
Hyams mentions it with every other breath. I think Stansbury would be a disaster hire. Jimmy thinks it would be a great hire. Since jimmy is a complete dumbass, I like where I stand on the issue.
Click to expand...

Stansbury is horrible - I cringe every time I hear Hyams say his name.....
 
#58
#58
vol66 said:
This is what I'm having trouble grasping.

When Hamilton hired Martin, there was really no chance to go out and get a tier 1, even tier 2 guy. With all the Pearl/NCAA uncertainty, I think most understood the situation. That's not to say that we liked it, but it was understandable under those circumstances.

Here we are, three years later, weeks removed from a S16. There are no NCAA issues, no APR issues, no negative player issues.

I keep seeing tier 3 names, and some people seem okay with that. If we don't land a tier 1 or 2 coach now, then when? What has to happen?

White as an example. He has three years of experience, it's as unfair to expect him to have Pearl (13 years as a HC before UT) like results as it was for Martin.

People seem fine letting Hart make another tier three hire, at a time where it sure seems like we ought to be able to do better.

What gives?
Click to expand...

I believe that some of that is derived from the lame excuse that Tennessee is a football school and will not pay big money to a top basketball coach.
 
#59
#59
G8R8U2 said:
One thing it does seem to confirm, though, is that Hart wasn't anticipating this and didn't already have a replacement lined up.
Click to expand...

Any executive should have a succession list of possible hires in his desk with that list being updated annually. The next step is to then determine interest, starting at the top of the list and working downward. It does not happen overnight.
 
#60
#60
vol66 said:
This is what I'm having trouble grasping.

When Hamilton hired Martin, there was really no chance to go out and get a tier 1, even tier 2 guy. With all the Pearl/NCAA uncertainty, I think most understood the situation. That's not to say that we liked it, but it was understandable under those circumstances.

Here we are, three years later, weeks removed from a S16. There are no NCAA issues, no APR issues, no negative player issues.

I keep seeing tier 3 names, and some people seem okay with that. If we don't land a tier 1 or 2 coach now, then when? What has to happen?

White as an example. He has three years of experience, it's as unfair to expect him to have Pearl (13 years as a HC before UT) like results as it was for Martin.

People seem fine letting Hart make another tier three hire, at a time where it sure seems like we ought to be able to do better.

What gives?
Click to expand...

UTAD and UT Admin always go on the cheap in coaching searches while trying to find the "up and comer" "diamond in the rough" coach except for Serrano. That methodology is one that I do not agree.

The thing is if Tennessee hires the likes of White and he makes the tourney his first year and makes it again his second year with a sweet 16 run - UT will be increasing the salary substantially. So really you pay it on the front end for a big name coach or if you get lucky on an "up and comer" you pay for in a cpl years. Personally I would prefer to hire the best you can and in this case pay around 2.2 mill.
 
#61
#61
vol66 said:
This is what I'm having trouble grasping.

When Hamilton hired Martin, there was really no chance to go out and get a tier 1, even tier 2 guy. With all the Pearl/NCAA uncertainty, I think most understood the situation. That's not to say that we liked it, but it was understandable under those circumstances.

Here we are, three years later, weeks removed from a S16. There are no NCAA issues, no APR issues, no negative player issues.

I keep seeing tier 3 names, and some people seem okay with that. If we don't land a tier 1 or 2 coach now, then when? What has to happen?

White as an example. He has three years of experience, it's as unfair to expect him to have Pearl (13 years as a HC before UT) like results as it was for Martin.

People seem fine letting Hart make another tier three hire, at a time where it sure seems like we ought to be able to do better.

What gives?
Click to expand...

To try and answer your question Vol66, I believe its Jimmy Cheek. History is the best teacher, and recent history has told us that Cheek wants to make UT a top 25 research and educational school which is ok, but being the liberal that he is, he is pillaging and robbing the UTAD of the majority of its money to do this. He is a pure liberal academia person that hates sports. He is giving Hart a low budget constraints to work under. I don't think its a question who is willing to coach at UT but who is willing to do it for $1 mill to $1.5 mill. That is what will bring us a tier 3 coach yet again. Even before UT got Cheek, the only "big time " coach to my knowledge that UT hired was Johnny Majors that had a NC at Pittsburgh before he came here. Summitt was home grown, so was Fulmer. Cheek needs to go and soon, and as a school we need to break our traditional hiring practices. If you want success than go hire success.
 
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#62
#62
If he had his cell phone on him then he was working...Leading the charge for a new and improved VOL coaching staff while checking out the ape compound at the same time.
 
#64
#64
VOLnMiami said:
If he had his cell phone on him then he was working...Leading the charge for a new and improved VOL coaching staff while checking out the ape compound at the same time.
Click to expand...

Several posters will never believe the AD can walk around and talk on his cell at the same time during a coaching search. I believe some think the man should not sleep until a new coach is hired.
 
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Reactions: 1 person
#65
#65
midtnvol2 said:
To try and answer your question Vol66, I believe its Jimmy Cheek. History is the best teacher, and recent history has told us that Cheek wants to make UT a top 25 research and educational school which is ok, but being the liberal that he is, he is pillaging and robbing the UTAD of the majority of its money to do this. He is a pure liberal academia person that hates sports. He is giving Hart a low budget constraints to work under. I don't think its a question who is willing to coach at UT but who is willing to do it for $1 mill to $1.5 mill. That is what will bring us a tier 3 coach yet again. Even before UT got Cheek, the only "big time " coach to my knowledge that UT hired was Johnny Majors that had a NC at Pittsburgh before he came here. Summitt was home grown, so was Fulmer. Cheek needs to go and soon, and as a school we need to break our traditional hiring practices. If you want success than go hire success.
Click to expand...

Excellent post! I think you may on to something here! Hambone left in disgrace now the bugger eater needs to go!
 
#66
#66
Tux said:
It has been two days and all is quiet. Dave Hart even went to the Knoxville Zoo today.

What does that mean? Is it just a pressure release? Is it to throw the Knoxville media off? Is he thinking about things?

My thoughts are this…….

Dave Hart has someone working with him doing some footwork and legalese. Hart checked in on a Tim Miles/McDermott package deal (Doug McDermott's father). Miles wants to stay in the midwest. That does not mean that he was offered the job.

My feelings are that Hart knows who he wants and has some legal types and accounting types working up some numbers and contract initiatives. I don;t believe he would be waiting around to sign a tier three guy like Tyndall. I think that Hart os going after a big fish. He has an opportunity to really create a real legacy at Tennessee if he can land both a football coach who can turn things around and a top basketball coach, who can build a championship basketball team. I don;t think he is waiting on a Kmart blue light special coach. he could have had one of them already. He is swinging for the fences right now and that takes time.

I would mot be surprised of he landed a tier 1 coach and in a worst case scenario, he lands a tier 2 coach.

Tier 1
Gregg Marshall
Shaka Smart
Ben Howland
Jamie Dixon
Tom Crean

Tier 2
Mick Cronin
Chris Mack
Tubby Smith
Scott Drew
Dan Dakich
Jim Crews


Tier 3
Kurtis Townsend
Dane Fife
Michael White
John Pelphry
Richard Pitino
Archie Miller
Donnie Tyndall
Rick Byrd
Kermit Davis
Wade from UTC
Click to expand...

You had to drop the "big fish" reference didn't you
 
#67
#67
patrick said:
UTAD and UT Admin always go on the cheap in coaching searches while trying to find the "up and comer" "diamond in the rough" coach except for Serrano. That methodology is one that I do not agree.

The thing is if Tennessee hires the likes of White and he makes the tourney his first year and makes it again his second year with a sweet 16 run - UT will be increasing the salary substantially. So really you pay it on the front end for a big name coach or if you get lucky on an "up and comer" you pay for in a cpl years. Personally I would prefer to hire the best you can and in this case pay around 2.2 mill.
Click to expand...

I agree that ,traditionally, UT has usually hired the up and comers. I agree that the exceptions have been Johnny Majors and most recently, Dave Serrano. This is an interesting point. Johnny Majors thought he was under paid and complained until he was replaced. A national championship coach at Pitt wanted to come back to his alma mater, other wise, he wouldn't have been here. I would also throw Pearl into that mix. He was a very experienced coach that wanted desperately to be a D1 Coach and nobody wanted him so we didn't have to pay top dollar to get him. Thanks Ernie.

Coach Serrano wanted to be here as well. He's one of a hand full of coaches that have taken multiple teams to the CWS, last I looked he was 7th in the SEC in base pay and if you factor in bonuses, outside pay and the buyout he'd be further down the list than that.

In other words, on both those occasions, UT got lucky. Money wasn't the number 1 factor for those men.

It also spans many UT Presidents and AD's, though I must say, Hart is the fourth highest paid AD in the SEC, I believe the 14th highest paid AD in the country. If you're willing to pay an administrator that kind of money, why is it okay to pay a S 16 basketball coach top 30 money, 8th in the SEC and expect him not to look around. (we all know Hart wanted him to leave, hopefully you get my point.)

The Problem is not the AD, because it's been this way FOREVER.

It's the people that are the decision makers at the very top. For all the money they have, all that they donate, they keep doing the same thing over and over, hoping that they will occasionally get lucky and that WE WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT WHATEVER THEY GIVE US.

As fans we have to quit taking it out on the inexperienced coaches these folks hire. They are doing the best they can, even Dooley...can't believe I just typed that...just because you make him a millionaire, that doesn't make him ready to be an SEC football coach, that doesn't make him any smarter in of itself and it doesn't give me the right as a fan, as frustrated as I might be, to take it out on him or his family, when clearly...THE POWERS THAT BE HIRED SOMEONE TOO INEXPERIENCED for the job.

Alabama figured it out. Auburn has figured it out. Florida by god, figured out, LSU figured it out, look at their baseball program.

midtnvol2 said:
To try and answer your question Vol66, I believe its Jimmy Cheek. History is the best teacher, and recent history has told us that Cheek wants to make UT a top 25 research and educational school which is ok, but being the liberal that he is, he is pillaging and robbing the UTAD of the majority of its money to do this. He is a pure liberal academia person that hates sports. He is giving Hart a low budget constraints to work under. I don't think its a question who is willing to coach at UT but who is willing to do it for $1 mill to $1.5 mill. That is what will bring us a tier 3 coach yet again. Even before UT got Cheek, the only "big time " coach to my knowledge that UT hired was Johnny Majors that had a NC at Pittsburgh before he came here. Summitt was home grown, so was Fulmer. Cheek needs to go and soon, and as a school we need to break our traditional hiring practices. If you want success than go hire success.
Click to expand...

Florida is a Top 25 School, I think. They also finished 2nd to Stanford in the Director's Cup Standings. So, there's the model, it can be done, and it can be done in the SEC.

Thanks for the responses.
 
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#68
#68
What's all the hate on Stansberry?
Look at MSU pre and post. The guy was a recruiter and did nice things considering the crap hole job MSU basketball really is. They really screwed up letting him go.

Also, can't believe I'm having to say this, but it's spelled b-o-o-g-e-r.
 
#69
#69
Stansbury is a dirty coach. He's been out coaching for a while. Why has nobody come calling for him? There is a reason.
 
#70
#70
The zoo is a good place to contemplate this mess.
A side question to anyone.Goodor bad ,I signed up for Brent Hubbs Vol Quest.I have forgotten(or they don't recognize my nickname and password.I have tried to call the phone number;but,all I get is a high volume and call later or nothing.Could anyone who knows their way around a computer or Vol Quest help me get reconnected.It would be greatly appreciated.Grand Poobah,if you have any insight,I'd be grateful.I love this vol nation.Am stuck here in Florida with too,too many Gay-tors!
 
#71
#71
Why would Crean leave IU for UT? Also, Archie Miller needs to replace Tubby as a tier II coach. An argument could be made that Miller is a better fit for UT than Shaka. Surprised that Amaker isn't mentioned more as being a potential candidate.
 
#72
#72
SNAFU said:
Why would Crean leave IU for UT? Also, Archie Miller needs to replace Tubby as a tier II coach. An argument could be made that Miller is a better fit for UT than Shaka. Surprised that Amaker isn't mentioned more as being a potential candidate.
Click to expand...

What argument is that?

Tubby also has a way better resume than Miller even though I don't want Tubby really.
 
#73
#73
vol66 said:
I agree that ,traditionally, UT has usually hired the up and comers. I agree that the exceptions have been Johnny Majors and most recently, Dave Serrano. This is an interesting point. Johnny Majors thought he was under paid and complained until he was replaced. A national championship coach at Pitt wanted to come back to his alma mater, other wise, he wouldn't have been here. I would also throw Pearl into that mix. He was a very experienced coach that wanted desperately to be a D1 Coach and nobody wanted him so we didn't have to pay top dollar to get him. Thanks Ernie.

Coach Serrano wanted to be here as well. He's one of a hand full of coaches that have taken multiple teams to the CWS, last I looked he was 7th in the SEC in base pay and if you factor in bonuses, outside pay and the buyout he'd be further down the list than that.

In other words, on both those occasions, UT got lucky. Money wasn't the number 1 factor for those men.

It also spans many UT Presidents and AD's, though I must say, Hart is the fourth highest paid AD in the SEC, I believe the 14th highest paid AD in the country. If you're willing to pay an administrator that kind of money, why is it okay to pay a S 16 basketball coach top 30 money, 8th in the SEC and expect him not to look around. (we all know Hart wanted him to leave, hopefully you get my point.)

The Problem is not the AD, because it's been this way FOREVER.

It's the people that are the decision makers at the very top. For all the money they have, all that they donate, they keep doing the same thing over and over, hoping that they will occasionally get lucky and that WE WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT WHATEVER THEY GIVE US.

As fans we have to quit taking it out on the inexperienced coaches these folks hire. They are doing the best they can, even Dooley...can't believe I just typed that...just because you make him a millionaire, that doesn't make him ready to be an SEC football coach, that doesn't make him any smarter in of itself and it doesn't give me the right as a fan, as frustrated as I might be, to take it out on him or his family, when clearly...THE POWERS THAT BE HIRED SOMEONE TOO INEXPERIENCED for the job.

Alabama figured it out. Auburn has figured it out. Florida by god, figured out, LSU figured it out, look at their baseball program.



Florida is a Top 25 School, I think. They also finished 2nd to Stanford in the Director's Cup Standings. So, there's the model, it can be done, and it can be done in the SEC.

Thanks for the responses.
Click to expand...


Vol 66, I also never said that a school couldn't be a top academic research school and a strong athletic school, my point is to the deep level that Cheek has raided the UT Athletic fund in order to start implementing his plans. It has been well documented in the football form how much extra study programs just to start that Cheek has cut or completely stopped that was set up for student athletes. His pillaging drove the UTAD into the red several years ago. I just don't believe that Cheek will ever give the UTAD the amount of funds to hire and maintain coaches and the programs to the level that it needs to be in order to achieve. Athletic contributions are much easier obtained than academic ones are. Its easier for Cheek to take from AD cookie jar than work for his own. Cheek is the biggest hurdle in the AD's way.
 
#74
#74
midtnvol2 said:
Vol 66, I also never said that a school couldn't be a top academic research school and a strong athletic school, my point is to the deep level that Cheek has raided the UT Athletic fund in order to start implementing his plans. It has been well documented in the football form how much extra study programs just to start that Cheek has cut or completely stopped that was set up for student athletes. His pillaging drove the UTAD into the red several years ago. I just don't believe that Cheek will ever give the UTAD the amount of funds to hire and maintain coaches and the programs to the level that it needs to be in order to achieve. Athletic contributions are much easier obtained than academic ones are. Its easier for Cheek to take from AD cookie jar than work for his own. Cheek is the biggest hurdle in the AD's way.
Click to expand...

I don't know enough about what Cheek's been doing. What I'm trying to say is that this bargain shopping has gone on long before Cheek and Hart got here.

When I look around the country I see other places getting better coaches...Louisville comes to mind...Get rid of Strong and get Petrino for 3.5 million, with Pitino coaching basketball making almost 5 million, McDonnell is probably close to a million...the bigger issue than the money is that Louisville can attract those kind of coaches and we aren't even in the same ball park. It doesn't seem like we even try.
 
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