Another letter from class of '15

[VollyParton]

People in Cincinnati randomly check out how our softball team's doing?

You just want to argue. I did not say "all sports fans". You (I assume) are a sports fan, and I assume you are a UT sports fan, but you are not a Lady Vols fan. So obviously, not all sports fans or even all of "our" sports fans talk about any particular women's softball team.

 

[Sandvol]

All I know from the A.D. is what they have said:
1) Nike made use do it.
2) We conducted a multi-year study that says this is a good idea.
3) The women's team are all behind it.
4) This will make us a top-25 university.

Nike has said they weren't the cause of the change.

The athletes say they weren't consulted about the change.

There doesn't seem to have been a study about the change.

None of the "explanations" the A.D. has given makes sense. You say that leaves political correctness as the only explanation, but that to me doesn't make sense. Explain to me why you think Dave Hart is a feminist!

This is obviously not a tribute to Pat. I imagine it is breaking her heart.

I don't think Dave Hart is a feminist. Dave Hart is a good ole Alabama boy who wants to go out on the lake on his boat. He probably prays to God every night this will end and Joe and the Board will stop this madness. But, the rest of your post was spot on.

 

[butchna]

You just want to argue. I did not say "all sports fans". You (I assume) are a sports fan, and I assume you are a UT sports fan, but you are not a Lady Vols fan. So obviously, not all sports fans or even all of "our" sports fans talk about any particular women's softball team.

I'm a Vols fan and I've cheered for our women's teams throughout the years...just found out recently that they're separate entities. :dunno: I don't seek out arguments, they just seem to naturally occur when I present an opposing viewpoint. :thumbsup:

 

[volbeast33]

The same reason you dont see top programs like Notre Dame, Michigan, others have a separate logo for their women's programs......one identity.

I asked how it helped branding and marketing.....not if other teams had one brand.....do you know or not?

 

[butchna]

I asked how it helped branding and marketing.....not if other teams had one brand.....do you know or not?

Nike did an audit...they recommended this action. Denial by activists doesn't make that untrue. Nike knows what works and what doesn't. They're pretty good at...branding and marketing. Their memo revealed on Deadspin advising Hart and the rest of the administration to ride the squawking out will bear out. If creating separate lines of apparel for men and women was a viable and profitable strategy, other schools would be copying us. They're not. :hi:

 

[volbeast33]

Nike did an audit...they recommended this action. Denial by activists doesn't make that untrue. Nike knows what works and what doesn't. They're pretty good at...branding and marketing. Their memo revealed on Deadspin advising Hart and the rest of the administration to ride the squawking out will bear out. If creating separate lines of apparel for men and women was a viable and profitable strategy, other schools would be copying us. They're not. :hi:

I don't think it's viable for most schools but did think it was for ours...is there any where you can read their data or did they just base it on other schools?

 

[Sandvol]

I don't think it's viable for most schools but did think it was for ours...is there any where you can read their data or did they just base it on other schools?

Have you seen the audit? It is somewhere in this thread. There was no data.

 

[butchna]

I don't think it's viable for most schools but did think it was for ours...is there any where you can read their data or did they just base it on other schools?

I read about the audit (which I previously had never heard of) in an article...I'll try to scrounge it up. When us switching to Nike became a reality, I had no preference...still don't. Lady Vols is just something I took as a matter of fact. But the Vols part has always been what I rooted for...all the way back to Bridgette Gordon and crew delivering Coach Summitt's first championship. You're never going to convince me that our AD just hates women and wants to burn everything down because he attended school at Alabama :loco: Or that forces of political correctness are organizing against one school standing on a mountain insisting on having Ladies in front of Vols. :crazy: This kind of talk BRANDS us... ALL THE WRONG WAY. . inch:

So I say so. :hi:

Here's a part of the article...it does claim that Nike didn't recommend the Lady Vol change...just showed the advantages.

Other observations include concerns over a lack of consistency in wordmarks, numerals and icons from sport to sport. Nike also said it saw inconsistency in the shade of orange on uniforms and saw inconsistent use of the checkerboard pattern on uniforms.

The decision to restrict the use of the Lady Vols nickname encountered disagreement when 100 people gathered at Pat Summit Plaza before the women’s basketball team’s game against Stanford on Dec. 20 to protest. Leslie Cikra, a former Tennessee volleyball player, started a website called BringBackTheLadyVols.com that includes letters from former Tennessee athletes hoping to get the nickname reinstated for the rest of the sports and a petition with 7,612 signatures asking for the same.

- See more at: http://m.columbiadailyherald.com/sports/college/nike-made-branding-recommendations-ut-made-decisions#sthash.xh2O2ce4.dpuf

 

[gule]

ldyvs4evr

 

[volbeast33]

Nike did an audit...they recommended this action. Denial by activists doesn't make that untrue. Nike knows what works and what doesn't. They're pretty good at...branding and marketing. Their memo revealed on Deadspin advising Hart and the rest of the administration to ride the squawking out will bear out. If creating separate lines of apparel for men and women was a viable and profitable strategy, other schools would be copying us. They're not. :hi:

I dont see how anyone gets much out of the audit...I would like to know if it costs more per money made. I know me personally own tons of Tenn stuff and outfit all of my kids in UT gear....At Christmas, I had to spend about four hundred extra dollars bc my daughters had to have Lady Vol gear. I don't see how it doesn't make money as popular as the Lady Vol brand is.

 

[butchna]

I dont see how anyone gets much out of the audit...I would like to know if it costs more per money made. I know me personally own tons of Tenn stuff and outfit all of my kids in UT gear....At Christmas, I had to spend about four hundred extra dollars bc my daughters had to have Lady Vol gear. I don't see how it doesn't make money as popular as the Lady Vol brand is.

I went to the Mizzou football game last year. My girlfriend went off with my sister to shop for gear on campus. She was looking for Power T apparel. Ultimate softball Mom...daughter has been an all-district pitcher and she tries to snag college gear from the different states they frequent. She didn't like the blue and orange combination and wondered why we slap Lady's in front of everything. One person one sale. She's probably never going to be a fan of my favorite school but it's an outside perspective. If everything has just Vols on it will you buy your daughters Vandy gear?

 

[VollyParton]

I went to the Mizzou football game last year. My girlfriend went off with my sister to shop for gear on campus. She was looking for Power T apparel. Ultimate softball Mom...daughter has been an all-district pitcher and she tries to snag college gear from the different states they frequent. She didn't like the blue and orange combination and wondered why we slap Lady's in front of everything. One person one sale. She's probably never going to be a fan of my favorite school but it's an outside perspective. If everything has just Vols on it will you buy your daughters Vandy gear?

I think the man with the family (future Vols/Lady Vols/fans) spending $400 for Christmas just for the daughters speaks more loudly than the hope to sell one t-shirt to someone who isn't a fan.

I don't know the numbers of the actual ratio in the fan base, but there are an awful lot of fans who follow both male & female teams and buy gear representing both. Some buy more Vols stuff; some buy more Lady Vols stuff. You can see the t-shirts on the tee-vee, they're being sold. Why would you turn down sales?

Why are you arguing? I bet you haven't missed a single thread on this subject.

 

[volbeast33]

I went to the Mizzou football game last year. My girlfriend went off with my sister to shop for gear on campus. She was looking for Power T apparel. Ultimate softball Mom...daughter has been an all-district pitcher and she tries to snag college gear from the different states they frequent. She didn't like the blue and orange combination and wondered why we slap Lady's in front of everything. One person one sale. She's probably never going to be a fan of my favorite school but it's an outside perspective. If everything has just Vols on it will you buy your daughters Vandy gear?

I never said I wouldn't support the Vols teams.....before I had to buy Tennessee Vols attire and Lady Vols attire....now I will be saving a lot of money. You need to dump your g/f if the word Lady bothered her. I feel that more people would understand if they showed how they could make more money by being one brand or showing that the Lady Vols fans didn't support them enough with merchandise sales to keep both brands. It would make a lot more sense than the stupid petty reasons that it feels like they are using.

 

[butchna]

I think the man with the family (future Vols/Lady Vols/fans) spending $400 for Christmas just for the daughters speaks more loudly than the hope to sell one t-shirt to someone who isn't a fan.

I don't know the numbers of the actual ratio in the fan base, but there are an awful lot of fans who follow both male & female teams and buy gear representing both. Some buy more Vols stuff; some buy more Lady Vols stuff. You can see the t-shirts on the tee-vee, they're being sold. Why would you turn down sales?

Why are you arguing? I bet you haven't missed a single thread on this subject.

No "arguing"...decision's already made. . We have different takes on it. I get more active when I hear some zany scenarios behind said decision. Anyone that is floating ideas that this is a PC driven decision and that they're moving forward despite knowledge that they'll lose money? Yeah...they'll get a healthy rejoinder from me. The converse is true and when the money flows in from this decision, the din of dissent shall fade and fade til it is never more.

Probably haven't missed a thread...paranoid stuff fascinates me. Being so close to Dealey Plaza affords me the chance to witness some epic rants. :scare: Nothing close to SandVol tho. :wink2:

 

[butchna]

I never said I wouldn't support the Vols teams.....before I had to buy Tennessee Vols attire and Lady Vols attire....now I will be saving a lot of money. You need to dump your g/f if the word Lady bothered her. I feel that more people would understand if they showed how they could make more money by being one brand or showing that the Lady Vols fans didn't support them enough with merchandise sales to keep both brands. It would make a lot more sense than the stupid petty reasons that it feels like they are using.

Girlfriend's awesome...glad I don't have your relationship criteria. . I brought up her observation to point out that you're already a customer. Our university ain't losing money from you not buying EXTRA overpriced women's gear. You'll buy more when your old stuff wears out or WHEN your little sprouts want something else that looks cool. Super casual or nonfans will buy more of something that looks cooler and appeals to the majority of the market. Once again, you Lady Vol zealots underestimate the basic greed behind this decision. This is about making money and Nike knows how to do that. No one is going into this to lose money so why stress otherwise. I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Sandvol]

I never said I wouldn't support the Vols teams.....before I had to buy Tennessee Vols attire and Lady Vols attire....now I will be saving a lot of money. You need to dump your g/f if the word Lady bothered her. I feel that more people would understand if they showed how they could make more money by being one brand or showing that the Lady Vols fans didn't support them enough with merchandise sales to keep both brands. It would make a lot more sense than the stupid petty reasons that it feels like they are using.

Same reasoning that if you don't support all our wars you're un American. I think the opposite is true. Elitists who change the name of our teams without any input from VOLS or Lady VOLS are the ones who don't support Volnation.

 

[vol66]

My friend came in from Germany just after the Nike launch. He was a bit oblivious to the whole Lady Vol logo issue. He called a couple of days ago wanting to go to the stadium shop and pick up some new gear. We set it up for today.

I admit, I didn't really want to go, and I didn't want to take my seven year old son along, which, due to circumstances would be a prerequisite.

I didn't want to go because The Vol Shop at General Neyland's would be the most expensive Vols/Nike deal on the planet.

But...my friend is headed back to Germany and he won't be able to attend any games sooooooo....We went.

There is no where...not to be confused with "Opportunity is Nowhere"... to park. Football season will be a nightmare, the only thing more valuable than a ticket will be a parking pass. We parked out side of right field at Lindsey Nelson, mostly because I was tired of looking and I knew we could.

Of course this means we walk right by the Pat Summitt statue. My friend from Germany hadn't seen it, wanted to stop, pay homage...I did too...but I could not...all the players, the banners, it all went to the wayside and all I could think was...they are taking it way.

And for what?

There were exactly two things I did not see for sale today at the Vol Shop...besides no youth football jerseys...No Lady Vols gear at all and absolutely no "One Tennessee" items. After a year of One Tennessee you'd think there would be at least a bumper sticker...

Then we passed Pat's statue again on the way back. She has a statue, the court is named after her, the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame is in Knoxville for crying out loud.

The University of Tennessee has honored Coach Summitt.

But UT is not honoring what she built, she and countless others.

I realize that at this particular place, it is all about football, that shop in Neyland's house does not have room for a basketball jersey of either gender.

If it hadn't before, it hit me today.

 

[VollyParton]

No "arguing"...decision's already made. . We have different takes on it. I get more active when I hear some zany scenarios behind said decision. Anyone that is floating ideas that this is a PC driven decision and that they're moving forward despite knowledge that they'll lose money? Yeah...they'll get a healthy rejoinder from me. The converse is true and when the money flows in from this decision, the din of dissent shall fade and fade til it is never more.

Probably haven't missed a thread...paranoid stuff fascinates me. Being so close to Dealey Plaza affords me the chance to witness some epic rants. :scare: Nothing close to SandVol tho. :wink2:

Money flowing in - You know the Nike deal is not as good as our old addidas deal, right?

I still don't see how you make more money selling Vols products than selling Vols products + Lady Vols products to people like me who buy both. Please walk me through it.

 

[butchna]

Money flowing in - You know the Nike deal is not as good as our old addidas deal, right?

I still don't see how you make more money selling Vols products than selling Vols products + Lady Vols products to people like me who buy both. Please walk me through it.

They get 4% more of apparel sales AND unlimited gear...it is a better deal and the women's cut is going to increase also without having to worry about the clunky itemizing. ONE Tennessee MORE money.

 

[VollyParton]

They get 4% more of apparel sales AND unlimited gear...it is a better deal and the women's cut is going to increase also without having to worry about the clunky itemizing. ONE Tennessee MORE money.

Please explain "clunky itemizing" and how one Tennessee means more money. Have you seen numbers on this?

I'm just trying to find a justification for the change.

 

[butchna]

Please explain "clunky itemizing" and how one Tennessee means more money. Have you seen numbers on this?

I'm just trying to find a justification for the change.

"Bought three Tennessee T-shirts but one had some North Carolina blue on it...so do we give the Lady Vols 1/3 credit on the sales tic sheet or count it as one sale by itself? Then do we have to give the plain regular Vols two sales or one BIG super sale?" :blink:


Sumthin like that.

 

[vol66]

"Bought three Tennessee T-shirts but one had some North Carolina blue on it...so do we give the Lady Vols 1/3 credit on the sales tic sheet or count it as one sale by itself? Then do we have to give the plain regular Vols two sales or one BIG super sale?" :blink:


Sumthin like that.

Uh...um...not how it works.O

 

[butchna]

Uh...um...not how it works.O

Enlighten us...how did they track and credit sales before they fixed this mess?

 

[vol66]

Enlighten us...how did they track and credit sales before they fixed this mess?

It is a licensing agreement. For a set fee and a royalty, I think the NIKE deal is 13%. So when you buy a new NIKE T...regardless of what is on it or where you bought it...The University of Tennessee gets 13% of that sale. That is the simple explanation of a roughly 25 page contract.

I guess your argument was that when there were two AD's, they could independently of each other set up different licensing agreements. I don't think that is the case. No, I know it was not. No shoe company would ever agree to give up half the license for half of the athletics on a campus.

 

[butchna]

It is a licensing agreement. For a set fee and a royalty, I think the NIKE deal is 13%. So when you buy a new NIKE T...regardless of what is on it or where you bought it...The University of Tennessee gets 13% of that sale. That is the simple explanation of a roughly 25 page contract.

I guess your argument was that when there were two AD's, they could independently of each other set up different licensing agreements. I don't think that is the case. No, I know it was not. No shoe company would ever agree to give up half the license for half of the athletics on a campus.

No, I wasn't talking about the two AD thing. I'm sure that was even more convoluted. inch: When we basically had two different brands for the same freaking school, how was profitability and brand recognition tracked? The running gag on these threads is that Hart in the guise of mad Solomon, actually split the baby in half. How do you know? I'm handicapped by my belief that he's both sane and not inherently evil. I say he's been presented valid data that will justify this move. You say he hasn't. Ship's already sailed tho.