Butch Jones has revised the program

[MWAVolfan]

i can also know as fact that GA, FL and LSU over the last 15 years have been much better programs than TN.

again, siap, but if you're going to operate solely on what"should be", then we should expect to go on losing streaks to Bama and FL fairly regularly with modicums of success sprinkled in to some pretty dire stretches.

i mean, that's where we are now, so should next year start another 10 year losing streak to FL? how much longer do we continue to lose to Bama before we just say "we should lose to Bama".

it makes no sense, and what happened in 1945 has no bearing on what "should" happen today.

Yes but you cannot let the failure of Tennessee over the last decade to live up to its own standard make you feel like those other programs are better than they really are.

I mean just look at how many opportunities Tennessee had to beat Bama and totally ruin half of their national title runs. We failed more than they achieved. There is no way Florida or Bama have a 10 year streak on us without a hefty dose of negligence on the part of Tennessee's leadership and coaching.

Again, the last 15 years Tennessee SHOULD have been better than they were. As in the opportunity was right in front of them. It's not as if Tennessee was completely outclassed every time they stepped on the field with Bama or Florida. Half of those losses had more to do with Tennessee's failure to just do it's job rather than those other teams being better.

 

[MWAVolfan]

i can also know as fact that GA, FL and LSU over the last 15 years have been much better programs than TN.

again, siap, but if you're going to operate solely on what"should be", then we should expect to go on losing streaks to Bama and FL fairly regularly with modicums of success sprinkled in to some pretty dire stretches.

i mean, that's where we are now, so should next year start another 10 year losing streak to FL? how much longer do we continue to lose to Bama before we just say "we should lose to Bama".

it makes no sense, and what happened in 1945 has no bearing on what "should" happen today.

The last 15 years has way more to do with Tennessee failing to do its job than it has to do with those other programs being better than UT. It's way more about us than it is about them. Tennessee was operating far below it's level of expectations allowing these other teams to look better than they really were.

 

[jakez4ut]

and it's not like GA or LSU or FL don't have any tradition or whatever. they all have heisman winners, national championships, SEC championships and bowl appearances and victories. GA and LSU are in the top 15 or so in all time wins. GA and LSU are top 10 in bowl appearances, and GA and TN are top 10 in bowl wins (GA has more than us), and GA and LSU are 3rd and 4th in SEC all time winning % behind Bama and TN, GA actually has more total wins.

TN has 13 SEC titles (1/2 of Bama's total), LSU and GA are one title each behind us, with 12 and 11 respectively.


it's not like it's Bama, TN and then everyone else way down the list. more like it's Bama, then everyone else way down the list.

 

[jakez4ut]

The last 15 years has way more to do with Tennessee failing to do its job than it has to do with those other programs being better than UT. It's way more about us than it is about them.

ok, so nothing that other programs do, has anything to do with their perceived success. it's only our failure that leads to others' success.

man, that sucks for us then.

 

[jakez4ut]

Yes but you cannot let the failure of Tennessee over the last decade to live up to its own standard make you feel like those other programs are better than they really are.

I mean just look at how many opportunities Tennessee had to beat Bama and totally ruin half of their national title runs. We failed more than they achieved. There is no way Florida or Bama (should) have a 10 year streak on us without a hefty dose of negligence on the part of Tennessee's leadership and coaching.

Again, the last 15 years Tennessee SHOULD have been better than they were. As in the opportunity was right in front of them. It's not as if Tennessee was completely outclassed every time they stepped on the field with Bama or Florida. Half of those losses had more to do with Tennessee's failure to just do it's job rather than those other teams being better.

if history is your measuring stick, then history says we should lose to Bama and Florida A LOT more than we win.

you, like the other guy, can't have it both ways.

so my advice, you should get ready for some serious losing streaks in the not too distant future, and for them to continue in to the foreseeable future.

history saying what should happen, doesn't just work for us. it SHOULD work for anyone, right?

 

[jakez4ut]

Yes but you cannot let the failure of Tennessee over the last decade to live up to its own standard make you feel like those other programs are better than they really are.

I mean just look at how many opportunities Tennessee had to beat Bama and totally ruin half of their national title runs. We failed more than they achieved. There is no way Florida or Bama have a 10 year streak on us without a hefty dose of negligence on the part of Tennessee's leadership and coaching.

Again, the last 15 years Tennessee SHOULD have been better than they were. As in the opportunity was right in front of them. It's not as if Tennessee was completely outclassed every time they stepped on the field with Bama or Florida. Half of those losses had more to do with Tennessee's failure to just do it's job rather than those other teams being better.

i don't need feelings. i have w/l records and division and conf titles that say it is fact.

seriously. you can't type this stuff on one side, then say this on the other w/out thinking aloud "what the hell am i talking about?".

 

[MWAVolfan]

and it's not like GA or LSU or FL don't have any tradition or whatever. they all have heisman winners, national championships, SEC championships and bowl appearances and victories. GA and LSU are in the top 15 or so in all time wins. GA and LSU are top 10 in bowl appearances, and GA and TN are top 10 in bowl wins (GA has more than us), and GA and LSU are 3rd and 4th in SEC all time winning % behind Bama and TN, GA actually has more total wins.

TN has 13 SEC titles (1/2 of Bama's total), LSU and GA are one title each behind us, with 12 and 11 respectively.


it's not like it's Bama, TN and then everyone else way down the list. more like it's Bama, then everyone else way down the list.

Lol. Well better is better. And if you remove the last 10 years of epic failure there is even more of a separation.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

You guys talking high about LSU and Miles-that's a joke! LSU should have had way more than one NC while Miles was there (sorta like us while Fulmer was here)! Saban had that program built and Miles rode the train it was on. If I recall correctly, they were ready to let him go two years before he won his only NC. Then, as luck would have it, he backed into the NC with two losses!

Funny

 

[MWAVolfan]

i don't need feelings. i have w/l records and division and conf titles that say it is fact.

seriously. you can't type this stuff on one side, then say this on the other w/out thinking aloud "what the hell am i talking about?".

Go back the last 10 years and look at the success both Bama and Florida have had. The titles they have won both SEC and Nattys. Then look at the years that those teams would not have achieved those things if it weren't for a huge Tennessee failure to win a game that it should have won. Those win streaks are so big and it makes people feel like Tennessee is that much worse a team. But when you realize how many times Tennessee snatched defeat from the jaws of victory you realize how so many fans can feel so bad about the shape the program is in. That's all I'm saying. That and also Georgia is complete garbage. Lol.

 

[jakez4ut]

Lol. Well better is better. And if you remove the last 10 years of epic failure there is even more of a separation.

but you can't, but it sure makes it easier to fit the narrative of what "should be" if you wipe out the worst 10 years of our history, doens't it.

but it doesnt' work like that.

 

[jakez4ut]

Go back the last 10 years and look at the success both Bama and Florida have had. The titles they have won both SEC and Nattys. Then look at the years that those teams would not have achieved those things if it weren't for a huge Tennessee failure to win a game that it should have won. Those win streaks are so big and it makes people feel like Tennessee is that much worse a team. But when you realize how many times Tennessee snatched defeat from the jaws of victory you realize how so many fans can feel so bad about the shape the program is in. That's all I'm saying. That and also Georgia is complete garbage. Lol.

shoulda, woulda, coulda. then there's what really happened.

 

[jakez4ut]

Go back the last 10 years and look at the success both Bama and Florida have had. The titles they have won both SEC and Nattys. Then look at the years that those teams would not have achieved those things if it weren't for a huge Tennessee failure to win a game that it should have won. Those win streaks are so big and it makes people feel like Tennessee is that much worse a team. But when you realize how many times Tennessee snatched defeat from the jaws of victory you realize how so many fans can feel so bad about the shape the program is in. That's all I'm saying. That and also Georgia is complete garbage. Lol.

read that again and tell me you actually believe it.

that other programs continue to beat TN regularly, and have pretty substantial leads in the overal w/l column historically, using your logic, suggests that they should continue to win on a lot more regular pace than we should over them.

except, that it's because we weren't very good that allowed them that opportunity, ipso, facto, we should have won those games.

huh?:crazy: it's one thing when we play the what if game.

now we have to play the 'what should have happened' game. my head hurts....getting some advil.:banghead2:

 

[volfan102455]

I see we are playing the should have and could have game.

We Tennessee should have / could have lost to Florida and Arkansas and Syracuse in 1998 - but guess what - Tennessee won! If Florida wins they are SEC champs and probably in the NC game. Arkansas lost by 1 the next week - so they too had some of that going on.

Absolutely every team has those type of situations.

 

[volfan102455]

10 years

2007 - Both Florida and Alabama crushed Tennessee (no should have, could have that year) The only game of the 4 losses that was a should/could have was LSU.

2008 - Once again, games were not close and with 7 losses there would need to be a lot of close losses. There were 2.

2009 - Alabama loss was by 2 points so I guess that is one of them but that is only 1 of the 6 losses. 2 other games were close so I guess the losses could have been only 3.

2010 - 2012 - Games not close; Dooley years only 2 of all the losses qualify as close.

2013 - Games not close

2014 - Florida a should have but that is only 1 of 6 losses

2015 - Yes both were winnable but that is the first time both were winnable since 2006 (9 years)

2016 - We won 1 of two.

 

[volfan102455]

ok, so nothing that other programs do, has anything to do with their perceived success. it's only our failure that leads to others' success.

man, that sucks for us then.

And that someone actually believes that ... scratching my head on this series of comments between you two.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Great thread. But wrong.

 

[butchna]

Wonder how Bama's doing? :question:

 

[IknoxvolsI]

CBJ is the Dennis Franchone of Tennessee! We'll never be better than 8/9-4. May a 10 win season once a decade with luck..

That's your Bama.

 

[butchna]

CBJ is the Dennis Franchone of Tennessee! We'll never be better than 8/9-4. May a 10 win season once a decade with luck..

That's your Bama.

Very weird comparison.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

Very weird comparison.

But accurate. Though? Right?

 

[butchna]

But accurate. Though? Right?

If by "accurate" you mean WAY OFF? Yeah. Franchione was highly successful at lower level programs...after rebuilding them. Rebuilt programs at New Mexico and TCU (when they were a mid-major). His first shot at the big time was at Bama and he was there :victory: seasons. Won 7 the first, 10 his second...''twas why Bammers were pissed he left for A&M. He tanked in College Station and never won 10 games there. Not seeing your pattern...just odd :huh:

 

[IknoxvolsI]

If by "accurate" you mean WAY OFF? Yeah. Franchione was highly successful at lower level programs...after rebuilding them. Rebuilt programs at New Mexico and TCU (when they were a mid-major). His first shot at the big time was at Bama and he was there :victory: seasons. Won 7 the first, 10 his second...''twas why Bammers were pissed he left for A&M. He tanked in College Station and never won 10 games there. Not seeing your pattern...just odd :huh:

If he wudda stayed at Bama he'd never been better than 8/9-4 and maybe a 10 win season once a decade. That's what we will have here with Butch-on an average. I see several 7 win seasons with Butch here and that's what Franchone would have done at Bama.

On a side note, at best CBJ will be our Georgia's CMR. Expectations and personnel to win but just not able to. On that token, I think they hurt their program by bringing in Kirby Smart to replace him. That's a down grade for them.

 

[butchna]

If he wudda stayed at Bama he'd never been better than 8/9-4 and maybe a 10 win season once a decade. That's what we will have here with Butch-on an average. I see several 7 win seasons with Butch here and that's what Franchone would have done at Bama.

On a side note, at best CBJ will be our Georgia's CMR. Expectations and personnel to win but just not able to. On that token, I think they hurt their program by bringing in Kirby Smart to replace him. That's a down grade for them.

So we're doing "wudda's" huh? Science!

 

[volfan102455]

So we're doing "wudda's" huh? Science!

Get with the program - it is could have and would have speculation in this thread.

The problem is the same logic debunks the 1998 NC championship. Almost every team that has won any type of championship has had a "luck moment or two" and those that didn't win always have "unlucky moments".

The interesting thing though is that folks dwell on what went wrong. The last two seasons were exactly opposite.

2015 - Tennessee would build a lead and couldn't hold it.
2016 - Tennessee would let the other team build the lead and come from behind.

2017 - Tennessee puts it all together and plays 60 minutes of consistent football.